[KSP 1.8 - 1.12+] - Probes Before Crew [PBC] Version 2.93

[_Zee]

Version 2.5 released

//// Version 2.5 Changes

*Integrated Science Param Modifier by DMagic; Celestial Multipliers Overhauled.
*Added B9 Aerospace Core Pack Support.
*Added RLA Reborn Support.
Pre-KSP_v1.6 parts now mirror their updated post-KSP_v1.6 variants. Thank you @4x4cheesecake!
    (Note this just prevents potential exploits. KSP versions prior to 1.6 are still not supported)
Corrected lack of entry cost for Mk1 parachute and Modular Girder.
Corrected antenna range of DMagic Soil Moisture from 100bil to 3.5bil
Corrected antenna range of US2 variant of DMagic Soil Moisture from 50bil to 5bil
Corrected NF-Spacecraft engine costs.
Shifted DMagic MiniGoo and MiniLab laterally from Construction branch to SpecializedScienceTech.
Shifted NearFuture 0.6m Structural parts laterally to PrecisionEngineering.
Shifted vanilla Place-anywhere 1-port RCS block one node earlier.
Shifted NF-Spacecraft RX-1 Linear RCS block one node earlier.
Updated Readme.

Alright folks. This update is literally a game changer. 

As I continue to play with my own mod I have to say I'm pretty satisfied with the overall effect. I really hope everyone else is enjoying it as much as I have. One thing that has become apparent however, is the sudden flood of Science that still seems to happen as soon as you arrive at another planet, usually Duna or Eve for most people. In spite of all the science reward nerfs I doled out, it still feels like you suddenly unlock the entire tree all at once with only a single interplanetary orbiter and lander probe. I'm exaggerating of course (if only a little) but the vanilla configuration is scaled completely out of whack and definitely needs tuning. The chart below will really illustrate how quickly the income gets out of hand in vanilla and shows that no matter what you do with your science slider, progress will never scale correctly. It will either be way too slow in the beginning, or way too fast in the mid. Celestial Body reward multipliers cannot be tuned using only Module Manager. But thanks to the ever-valuable efforts of DMagic, we have access to a mod (Science Param Modifier) that grants access to these tweaks, and all provided with an MIT license to boot. Thanks @DMagic!
You will find this mod packaged with V2.5 and all future PBC releases.
 

Celestial Body Science Multipliers

++	Vanilla	Vanilla	Vanilla	Vanilla	Vanilla	Vanilla	||	PBC	PBC	++
Body	Landed	Splashed	FlyLow	FlyHigh	SpaceLow	SpaceHigh	||	Landed	AllElse	Notes
Kerbin	0.3x	0.4x	0.7x	0.9x	1x	1.5x	||	1.5x	0.8x	(SpaceAny) and AllElse for Kerbin
Mun	4x				3x	2x	||	3x	2x
Minmus	5x				4x	2.5x	||	3.5x	2.5x
Kerbol			1x	1x	11x	2x	||	6x	2.5x	(SpaceLow) and AllElse for Kerbol
Moho	10x				8x	7x	||	5x	4x
Eve	8x	8x	6x	6x	7x	5x	||	4x	3x	(Land&Splash) and AllElse for Eve
Gilly	9x				8x	6x	||	4.5x	3.5x
Duna	8x		5x	5x	7x	5x	||	4x	3x
Ike	8x				7x	5x	||	4x	3x
Dres	8x				7x	6x	||	4x	3x
Jool			12x	9x	7x	6x	||	5x	3.5x	(FlyAny) and AllElse for Jool
Laythe	14x	12x	11x	10x	9x	8x	||	5.5x	4.5x	(Land&Splash) and AllElse for Laythe
Vall	12x				9x	8x	||	5x	4x
Tylo	12x				10x	8x	||	5x	4x
Bop	12x				9x	8x	||	5x	4x
Pol	12x				9x	8x	||	5x	4x
Eeloo	15x				12x	10x	||	6x	5x

 

This release is going to do a lot for stretching out your career.

• Expect Kerbin to provide a lot more Science, but the Moons to provide less. The net result for the early game should be roughly the same.
• Expect the mid and late game to be considerably slower.
• Expect everything to finally scale properly.

In addition to the introduction of SPM, this release includes massive support patches for B9 Aerospace Core (Chart) and RLA Reborn (Chart).
I did not write patches for the Legacy pack or HX Pack, every part in the Legacy pack is redundant and the HX parts are absurdly large. Core pack is all you really need.  
With Mk4 Spaceplane support and now B9, the SSTO line is fully and truly covered.
RLA Reborn fills any few remaining gaps, and I think a few of you will be happy to hear one such gap is starting out with 0.6m profiles.


I would also like to take the time to say thank you to all of my mod-users, bug-reporters, and supporters on Patreon. A special shout out to Nathan Fish, Chris Sinnett, and Rime Pendragon for their donations this month, you fine folks have no idea how much you brightened my day with your act of kindness, so thank you! This mod was first released on New Years Eve a month ago and it has received over 10,000 views and 2,000 downloads in that short time. I'm really surprised at how quickly it has grown! Thanks again, I hope you all continue to enjoy my work.
 

Edited February 1, 2019 by _Zee

[epideath]

This sounds awesome Zee, I agree that it seems once you are able to get to the Mun It really is not to hard money or science wise. It isn't very linear, and I use mods that try to fix this like monthly budget and others, but it seems always the same no matter what mods I use. I'm looking forward to trying out your latest changes. Keep up the great work and thanks for this mod!

[mtpatane]

With ETT not working this is exact what I was looking for. 

Any chance you’re targeting to add kw rocketry and roverdudes USI mod parts?

[4x4cheesecake]

Wohoo, update time Now I have to think about restarting the career to get the higher difficulty for collection science on Kerbin For me, this is the best part of the update (but I also always like to see when something I've contributed is added to a mod, thanks for this )

1 hour ago, _Zee said:

As I continue to play with my own mod I have to say I'm pretty satisfied with the overall effect. I really hope everyone else is enjoying it as much as I have.

So far, I do   Just launched my first probe to the Mun but unfortunately, it looks like the KARA contract doesn't update properly:

Spoiler

In Contract window + and CapCom:

In the stock contract window as well:

After returning to Kerbin:

Obviously, since I landed on the Mun, the probe was on a escape trajectory at some point, landed and actually returned to Kerbin but everything is still unchecked

I thought it might be related to the missing facility upgrades for the tracking station and mission control which causes my trajectory to be shown like an orbit and not like a escape trajectory:

Spoiler

This would be definitly an escape trajectory but with no upgrades for the tracking station or mission control, it is displayed like a regular orbit.

Unfortunately, when I try to upgrade the facilites via the debug menu, my game crashes as soon as I switch to the probe so I cannot test this theory right now
Will try it again later on a clean install.

Any idea what's going on there?

 

 

[_Zee]

1 hour ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

/snip
Any idea what's going on there?

Was the vessel marked as a PROBE in the eyes of the Vessel Namer and not a RELAY, SHIP, DEBRIS, etc?
Sadly a limitation of Contract Configurator (or stock, not sure).
I need to think up a reliable way of making sure every user of PBC knows about this. Its been brought up a few times and I totally get why its not intuitive. Perhaps mentioning it in the contract flavor text will do it.

Edited February 1, 2019 by _Zee

[BlackHat]

Hmm thats what I see also, the very first line, Vessel type Probe is unchecked. Would imply it was launched as a ship or maybe Lander.

With that contract can several probes be used to complete the contract? i.e Launch Probe 1 to do a Flyby, (which then heads off out of Kerbin SOI) Launch Probe 2 which will land (but does not have enough fuel to take off), SO then launch Probe 3 which will land and then return to Kerbin safely. 

Or will the contract require the same Probe complete all 3 parts?

Personally I think the contract should be separated into 2 or 3 or 4 contracts. (Flyby, Orbit, Land, Land and return) tweaking the rewards so the multiple contracts have the same reward as the multi-part one.

[4x4cheesecake]

52 minutes ago, _Zee said:

Was the vessel marked as a PROBE in the eyes of the Vessel Namer and not a RELAY, SHIP, DEBRIS, etc?
Sadly a limitation of Contract Configurator (or stock, not sure).
I need to think up a reliable way of making sure every user of PBC knows about this. Its been brought up a few times and I totally get why its not intuitive. Perhaps mentioning it in the contract flavor text will do it.

Apparently, it was marked as a relay since I got a HG-5 High Gain Antenna....

Switching it to a probe, actually updated the contract. Thanks

Would be nice if you can find a solution for this and maybe, until you got one, mention it in the OP?

[_Zee]

10 minutes ago, BlackHat said:

Hmm thats what I see also, the very first line, Vessel type Probe is unchecked. Would imply it was launched as a ship or maybe Lander.

With that contract can several probes be used to complete the contract? i.e Launch Probe 1 to do a Flyby, (which then heads off out of Kerbin SOI) Launch Probe 2 which will land (but does not have enough fuel to take off), SO then launch Probe 3 which will land and then return to Kerbin safely. 

Or will the contract require the same Probe complete all 3 parts?

Personally I think the contract should be separated into 2 or 3 or 4 contracts. (Flyby, Orbit, Land, Land and return) tweaking the rewards so the multiple contracts have the same reward as the multi-part one.

Yes, all three stages can be done by different and unique vessels. Additionally, the first vessel you land for the final parameter is not locked as the only vessel that will satisfy the "return". Any vessels following the first can also be returned.
In this way, the contract is separated into 3 contracts, all with unique milestone rewards. All the dynamics you're talking about here, without all the excess clutter.  

Edited February 1, 2019 by _Zee

[_Zee]

Version 2.51 released
 

//// Version 2.51 Changes

Small hotfix to ensure CKAN users receive the correct celestial multipliers.

If you don't use CKAN you don't need to update, but there's no harm in doing so. 
 

Edited February 1, 2019 by _Zee

[Superfluous J]

I've been playing this on the recommended hard settings since 2.5 came out and have really been enjoying it.

Thank you

[Redleg1]

For mods to integrate next I would like to nominate the USI collection of mods, or BDB.  

[4x4cheesecake]

Voting for this one to be added:

Kinda fits to the techtree and it got a 0.625m fairing

[_Zee]

5 hours ago, Redleg1 said:

For mods to integrate next I would like to nominate the USI collection of mods, or BDB.  

 

4 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Voting for this one to be added
/snip

Read the OP friends, click the big CLICK ME link on my frontpage.

Using the survey will allow me to keep way better track of what people are actually asking for and how often.

Edited February 1, 2019 by _Zee

[_Zee]

I just want to make sure the survey is working correctly for everyone, so a quick question for those that have already voted:

After you place your vote(s), are you able to see the results screen afterwards with a bar chart detailing total votes and current leaders?

Edited February 1, 2019 by _Zee

[4x4cheesecake]

5 minutes ago, _Zee said:

After you place your vote(s), are you able to see the results screen afterwards with a bar chart detailing total votes and current leaders?

Yes, worked fine for me (after my vote, 'others' was in the lead with 9 votes^^ )

[_Zee]

52 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Yes, worked fine for me (after my vote, 'others' was in the lead with 9 votes^^ )

I gotta say its a lot of fun for me seeing these votes come in. Not the results I expected so far.
I'm a total nerd for data (if you couldn't already tell), and the most interesting fact so far is that there have been a total of 13 write-in requests, and only 1 mod is mentioned more than once.

[ModZero]

I'm slightly worried with yet another life support mod. I mean, I used USI-LS for a long while, and only recently switched to Kerbalism, but I'd rather see balance mods focused on one LS support, even if it's not my "favourite." Kerbalism was a win, IMO, b/c TAC is missing habitation mechanics (and I _love_ Kerbalisms science transmission tools, even if I feel like it's odd to have them in one mod), but even that can be replaced with TAC + Kerbal Health (except the latter doesn't understand Remote Tech).

Also, Wild Blue mods are _excellent_, more people should try them. But they're their own thing too.

[_Zee]

4 hours ago, ModZero said:

I'm slightly worried with yet another life support mod. I mean, I used USI-LS for a long while, and only recently switched to Kerbalism, but I'd rather see balance mods focused on one LS support, even if it's not my "favourite." Kerbalism was a win, IMO, b/c TAC is missing habitation mechanics (and I _love_ Kerbalisms science transmission tools, even if I feel like it's odd to have them in one mod), but even that can be replaced with TAC + Kerbal Health (except the latter doesn't understand Remote Tech).

Also, Wild Blue mods are _excellent_, more people should try them. But they're their own thing too.

I bit confused on your point about Life Support mod support. TAC and Kerbalism are both currently supported by PBC, so you can already pick one and use it. If and when USI-LS gets support, if you don't like it then don't use it?
I'm not trying to be rude but I legitimately don't understand your concern.

[ModZero]

1 minute ago, _Zee said:

I'm not trying to be rude but I legitimately don't understand your concern.

I've just seen way too many balance mods burn out, so I'm worried about _that_ happening. It's also my own experience from developing software - trying to support more than one third party "per feature" is usually disproportionately expensive, effort-wise. I'd rather see a mod have less support, even I if I have to adapt a bit, if it means you can add support for mods that add completely new stuff, or just keep up for longer.

But it's up to you, eventually, of course.

[_Zee]

2 minutes ago, ModZero said:

I've just seen way too many balance mods burn out, so I'm worried about _that_ happening. It's also my own experience from developing software - trying to support more than one third party "per feature" is usually disproportionately expensive, effort-wise. I'd rather see a mod have less support, even I if I have to adapt a bit, if it means you can add support for mods that add completely new stuff, or just keep up for longer.

But it's up to you, eventually, of course.

Ah I understand now, thank you for clarifying. Well in the case of the Life Support mods, PBC moves parts into consistent tech nodes and then changes prices accordingly. After that has been done, there really isn't much more attention I need to pay to it unless the mod is updated in some significant way, which is rare for established LS mods.

All mods (and games for that matter) eventually die, given a long enough timescale. But I have previous modding experience and I understand burnout, so I wouldn't be too concerned.  This is actually why I put up the voting survey, it will help ensure I'm spending my modding time as efficiently as possible. I intend to grow and maintain PBC for a long time, at least up until I don't. 

[Ravien]

Thanks for PBC. It was time to put old MBU to rest.

_Zee could You make contracts solar system independent? Change targetBody formula from Mun or Minmus  to Homeworld().children ... etc ?

[_Zee]

First round of voting has concluded!

USI - Life Support wins by a very small margin. Development has already started and a new list of voting options are available. Your previous votes will remain, but can be changed. The graph that's shown after voting includes old, removed options. Ignore it, for the real tally click the second link on my frontpage.

The Wild Blue range of mods has been removed from the voting list due to a lack of votes. They can be nominated back with enough write-ins.
Bluedog Design Bureau and Outer Planet Mod Contract Support were the top 2 most written in requests, so they join the voting list.

Happy voting!

Edited February 3, 2019 by _Zee

[Shizen]

May i suggest OPT Space Planes.

I think it just got fixed to work on 1.6 by @JadeOfMaar

LINK TO IT HERE: 

 

 

[_Zee]

3 minutes ago, Shizen said:

May i suggest OPT Space Planes.

Write it down here Shizen, or it will be forgotten.

[Shizen]

DOne