[1.8.1-1] [PLEASE FORK ME] Kopernicus & KittopiaTech

[Galileo]

@The White Guardian have you seen this before?

I messed with PQS to try and get it but i have failed so far. Its a physical drop off that tends to make rovers explode or flip.  im at a loss

Spoiler

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Galileo

[TAImatem]

5 hours ago, Galileo said:

Its a physical drop off that tends to make rovers explode or flip.  im at a loss

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It seems to be a stock bug. I've noticed something similar when I went to the nearest monolith by foot without any mods installed

[Galileo]

18 minutes ago, TAImatem said:

It seems to be a stock bug. I've noticed something similar when I went to the nearest monolith by foot without any mods installed

i seemed to have fixed it. Its tied to ground scatter and pqs.. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Galileo

[Nansuchao]

10 hours ago, Galileo said:

@The White Guardian have you seen this before?

I messed with PQS to try and get it but i have failed so far. Its a physical drop off that tends to make rovers explode or flip.  im at a loss

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I had a similar issue on the runway, stock 1.2 pre-release. There where a couple of this glitch that made the plane jump during takeoff.

[msnbcorp]

Tested Kopernicus on 1.2.1, seems it's completly broken.

[nebuchadnezzar]

27 minutes ago, msnbcorp said:

Tested Kopernicus on 1.2.1, seems it's completly broken.

Kopernicus is version locked, so it won't work until there is an update.

[Rhedd]

1 hour ago, nebuchadnezzar said:

Kopernicus is version locked, so it won't work until there is an update.

Not to sound TOO rude, but if a mod creator goes to the trouble of intentionally version locking a mod that would almost certainly still work after a tiny incremental update, then they have a responsibility to update it IMMEDIATELY if there are no necessary changes.

I'm not hurrying them, mind, I'm instead suggesting they treat us like adults and remove the stupid version lock!

(The above was written in annoyance after finding that Kopernicus is the only mod out of my HUGE collection that I have yet noticed a problem with after updating to 1.21)

Edited November 2, 2016 by Rhedd

[Acetylcholine]

1 minute ago, Rhedd said:

Not to sound TOO rude, but if a mod creator goes to the trouble of intentionally version locking a mod that would almost certainly still work after a tiny incremental update, then they have a responsibility to update it IMMEDIATELY if there are no necessary changes.

I'm not hurrying them, mind, I'm actually in favor of treating us like adults and removing the stupid version lock!

(The above was written in annoyance after finding that Kopernicus is the only mod out of my HUGE collection that I have yet noticed a problem with after updating to 1.21)

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. The current situation is mildly frustrating to everybody involved. The alternative would be frustrating to everybody involved in that it would likely cause the thread to be inundated with impatient people who fundamentally do not understand how mods work complaining about it not working ("I know the thread says the version isn't up to date, but I downloaded it on CKAN and nothing even works, why????")

Though, from poking around in the files myself, I wish it was easier to manually change the version lock related stuff, to work as a filter preventing the type of comment mentioned above, and to not completely screw over those who understand that things could very well get broken by letting the mod get loaded.

[Rhedd]

2 minutes ago, Acetylcholine said:

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. The current situation is mildly frustrating to everybody involved. The alternative would be frustrating to everybody involved in that it would likely cause the thread to be inundated with impatient people who fundamentally do not understand how mods work complaining about it not working ("I know the thread says the version isn't up to date, but I downloaded it on CKAN and nothing even works, why????")

Though, from poking around in the files myself, I wish it was easier to manually change the version lock related stuff, to work as a filter preventing the type of comment mentioned above, and to not completely screw over those who understand that things could very well get broken by letting the mod get loaded.

That would be a solution. I play another game where all mods are version locked, but it's a simple process of opening the mod's config file and changing one number. Works almost every time.

Still, I think a warning message like all of my other mods give would be sufficient. Willfully stupid people be damned!

[Acetylcholine]

1 minute ago, Rhedd said:

That would be a solution. I play another game where all mods are version locked, but it's a simple process of opening the mod's config file and changing one number. Works almost every time.

Still, I think a warning message like all of my other mods give would be sufficient. Willfully stupid people be damned!

Sadly I don't think it's an issue of ignorance as much as it is of a... lack of experience in life?

A lot of these types who makes those sorts of posts strike me as being pretty young, so I don't really want to sound too harsh when I talk about them.

[msnbcorp]

I think we can find a right middle about this. It's right that version checking have advantages and inconvenient. And i think it's wrong to complain to a mod creator, the fact that ksp mostly works on mods is mainly due to thelack of skills/times/good distribution of money etc... of the main devs... modder are just patcher here.

However, the fact remain that the vast majority of ksp mods are NOT version locked. So maybe objectivily it's a good behaviour, may be not but here it only bring imcomprehension ... I think the AVC warning is sufficient for this purpose...

 

Other subject :

Little question about kopernicus :

Is it possible to place building (and if yes, how ?) or/and personnal texture on ground of kerbin at specific places ?

 

I wonder if it's possible to make a "hand drawing" big texture around KSC for the ground...

Edited November 2, 2016 by msnbcorp

[Galileo]

8 minutes ago, msnbcorp said:

Little question about kopernicus :

Is it possible to place building (and if yes, how ?) or/and personnal texture on ground of kerbin at specific places ?

 

I wonder if it's possible to make a "hand drawing" big texture around KSC for the ground...

Sure if you know how to model and texture. you would need to use kerbal Konstructs if im not mistaken.

As for drawing a texture around KSC, No. The ground textured area around KSC and the launchpad is part of the model itself and can only be changed by adding a texture. However you can not change the amount of texture tiling around KSC so it will never look perfect. 

[msnbcorp]

So let's me resume : the "not very green" textures around the building and roadway are part of the center itself (the building) ?

And the standart one around is the classic PQSmod textures repeated on tiles ?

Am i right ?

[Galileo]

1 minute ago, msnbcorp said:

So let's me resume : the "not very green" textures around the building and roadway are part of the center itself (the building) ?

And the standart one around is the classic PQSmod textures repeated on tiles ?

Am i right ?

yes yes and yes

[msnbcorp]

OK, but KSC is not one building only no ? it's a compil ? So there is 7/8 part of KSC, yes ? with each a ground texture around ?

[Galileo]

Just now, msnbcorp said:

OK, but KSC is not one building only no ? it's a compil ? So there is 7/8 part of KSC, yes ? with each a ground texture around ?

no its all one building

[msnbcorp]

Hum, and what happen when you upgrade ? it exist all configuration of the building ?????

[Galileo]

1 minute ago, msnbcorp said:

Hum, and what happen when you upgrade ? it exist all configuration of the building ?????

i dont know how its done exactly. I just know its all one model. 

[msnbcorp]

but but, it's seems fairly unlikely ...

 

OK, let's assume you're right. This model is generated with a "tile-spacement" superior/not related to the one used for the standart ground, right ?

edit :

To continue my thought :

Is it theorically possible to change the model of the KSC ? For example to extend it around and personalise the ground ?

[nebuchadnezzar]

1 hour ago, Rhedd said:

they have a responsibility to update it IMMEDIATELY if there are no necessary changes.

They have no such responsibility. Modders do this stuff for free on their time, as such we are on their schedule.

Edited November 2, 2016 by nebuchadnezzar

[Yargnit]

3 hours ago, Rhedd said:

Not to sound TOO rude, but if a mod creator goes to the trouble of intentionally version locking a mod that would almost certainly still work after a tiny incremental update, then they have a responsibility to update it IMMEDIATELY if there are no necessary changes.

I'm not hurrying them, mind, I'm instead suggesting they treat us like adults and remove the stupid version lock!

(The above was written in annoyance after finding that Kopernicus is the only mod out of my HUGE collection that I have yet noticed a problem with after updating to 1.21)

That's quite harsh, but I do think a request to move the version lock from hard-coded in the mod source itself, to reading a .cfg file so we can at our own risk change the version and try it out is a fair request to make.

I've actually tried to figure out how to re-compile Kopernicus myself to get around this, but so far have not been able to get visual basic to stop throwing errors at me in my attempts. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the license allows someone to link a re-compile in the mean time if all it truly takes to get it working is changing the version check number, and they know how to do so? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Lesser_General_Public_License 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Yargnit

[Streetwind]

3 hours ago, Rhedd said:

Not to sound TOO rude, but if a mod creator goes to the trouble of intentionally version locking a mod that would almost certainly still work after a tiny incremental update, then they have a responsibility to update it IMMEDIATELY if there are no necessary changes.

I'm not hurrying them, mind, I'm instead suggesting they treat us like adults and remove the stupid version lock!

(The above was written in annoyance after finding that Kopernicus is the only mod out of my HUGE collection that I have yet noticed a problem with after updating to 1.21)

If the update to KSP really is as tiny and incremental as you claim it is, surely it follows that the update won't take long to come out?

But if the speed of the mod developers isn't to your liking, Kopernicus is open source. You are free to contribute in order to help it along. All you need to do is fork the repository, edit out the version lock, compile the plugin against KSP v1.2.1, test every single feature of the mod to confirm it is working, make necessary changes to fix broken functions, compile it again, test every single feature again, and finally make a pull request to have your changes merged into the main repository. Then you can play with your self-updated version while Thomas P. just needs to hit merge on your pull request and build a release in order to make the update available to everyone else.

If you cannot, or will not do so for any other reason, you have no moral ground on which to make a statement like the above. Perhaps you were annoyed, true, but being annoyed merely explains and not excuses your post in any way. The mod is provided to you for free; you take it or you leave it. As a non-contributor, your rights end there. Don't expect to be 'treated like an adult' if you don't act like one.

[Sigma88]

4 hours ago, Rhedd said:

IMMEDIATELY

not even my boss talks like that to me, and he is paying me for doing my job.

posts like this is what makes modders postpone updates on purpose.

[Rhedd]

Yes, yes. I didn't mean to be so harsh, and I knew that ANY mention of the subject would get an inevitable flood of people saying "shut up, modders don't owe you anything", but I still (most politely) stand by my point.

I do NOT think it's reasonable to demand that modders update their mods immediately upon a game update. (Read that part a second time.) THEREFORE they shouldn't intentionally write their mods so that such action is artificially necessary for the mod to be used every... single... time... a tiny update drops. I wasn't demanding that anyone hurry.

@Streetwind is essentially correct in pointing out how much effort I would have to spend to fix this myself. However, that actually goes to support my statement, not shoot it down. It would obviously take a TON of effort for me to fix the problem that took at least SOME effort to be artificially added in to the mod in the first place. So much wasted effort!

At the very least, we could all be testing the mod right this moment to see if there were any problems with 1.21 or, like all of my other mods, there were on apparent problems at all. However, due to the hardcoded version lock, we can only sit back and wait for the devs themselves to waste their time looking for any problems before spending their time updating the version check for what might very well be no reason whatsoever (or might be, but that's a different story altogether). I have a list of mods as long as my arm, and so far, Kopernicus is the only one of them that won't work.

Again, my post, as I stated clearly, wasn't to hurry anyone because everyone's right when they say that isn't reasonable. My intention was to point out how silly it is to have a hardcoded version lock. I have a list of mods as long as my arm, and so far, Kopernicus is the only one of them that doesn't work, potentially for no real reason at all.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Rhedd

[Sigma88]

@Rhedd that approach has already been tried.

kopernicus was not version locked in the past, and when a KSP update came that broke compatibility people used to cry that "Kopernicus broke my saves"

since this issue (caused by kopernicus) was reflecting on planet pack creators (mainly OPM's captrobau) Thomas decided to version lock Kopernicus so that a window pops up at the start of the game (saying that Kopernicus won't work)

this way users have no reason to cry about their saves being ruined

 

of course this brought up the new issue of people crying about the version lock, but hey... people will cry anyways.

 

and regarding testing Kopernicus on 1.2.1, don't worry, there are a lot of people in close contact with @Thomas P. that have access to Kopernicus

(me included) and we will start testing the mod as soon as we have time

 

afterall the patch came out during night time in europe, and most people have a dayjob or school, so don't expect any update on the state of the mod before 4PM CET (best case scenario)

 

this said, please let's not continue this argument further

 

PS:

also, if you have read the patchnotes you will have noticed that gravity has been changed from 1.2 to 1.2.1

and that will need to be fixed in kopernicus as well, so this time it looks like the version lock was required after all

Edited November 2, 2016 by Sigma88