Kerbal Joint Reinforcement - Next

[Rudolf Meier]

for those having problems... can you please describe the problems you see? ... (in the developer thread if possible)

thanks

[Rudolf Meier]

I have updated the mod to support KSP 1.12 ... v4.1.18 is online, it is marked as pre-release, because it has not been tested

it should support everything in KSP 1.12 (robotics, rotating docking ports...)

[Rudolf Meier]

v4.1.19 is online

[linuxgurugamer]

41 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

v4.1.19 is online

Is it marked for release?

Edited March 27, 2022 by linuxgurugamer

[Rudolf Meier]

10 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Is it marked for release?

yes... tests didn't show problems and since there is not a big difference to 4.1.15 and 4.1.18 which also seemed to work, I marked it as release

[DeadJohn]

[deleted, something more than just KJR is going wrong with my game]

Edited October 22, 2022 by DeadJohn

[BezKartuza]

Hello.
I have some questions
1. Can this modification improve the FPS in the game or worsen it?
2. Is it compatible with ReStock+
3. Can the standard autostrut be used with this?

[1FingerSalute]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:31 AM, BezKartuza said:

Hello.
I have some questions
1. Can this modification improve the FPS in the game or worsen it?
2. Is it compatible with ReStock+
3. Can the standard autostrut be used with this?

Hello.

 

1. This hasn't changed my FPS in any way that I know of.

2. Yes, works fine with Restock+.

3. Yes but you won't need autostrut, this mod stiffens very effectively. The only reason I use struts anymore is for looks. 

[Rudolf Meier]

I have built a new version... it's the first build of v4.2 and currently marked as pre-release

you can find it here https://github.com/meirumeiru/Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement/releases/tag/v4.2.20

(like always: the dbg version contains a GUI to see what's going on)

 

What is new?

First I created a new algorithm to find the parts that need to get connected via additional joints (because the old algorithm didn't work correctly and predictable). But then I realized that the system may be building way too many joints and that's not what we want. We want to keep the game as much as it is as possible, but the problems with unstable joints should be resolved. That's why I developed a new algorithm that only selects the problematic joints for reinforcement. E.g. for the "Acapello" rocket it builds less than 30 joints. And those joints are built with the strengt you would expect (and not unrealisticly strong).

It should improve the overall performance and reduce phantom forces as much as possible.

 

What did not change?

The reinforcement of the original joints using the old algorithm that's in every KJR version since ever.

 

The config.xml contains the setting to use the new algorithm.

If you want to use the "old" (but still little bit improved) system to build joints, modify the config.xml and set multiPartAttachNodeReinforcement, reinforceDecouplersFurther, reinforceLaunchClampsFurther to 1 and reinforceInversions to 0.

 

I hope you like the new version. It would be great to get some feedback about the new version. Does it work? Is it stable?

Edited April 1, 2023 by Rudolf Meier

[Rudolf Meier]

read about the latest development here

Edited April 10, 2023 by Rudolf Meier

[Rudolf Meier]

version 4.2.22 is available (currently marked as pre-release and thus not on CKAN)

Release Kerbal Joint Reinforcement "Next" v4.2.22 · meirumeiru/Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement (github.com)

you can read about the current development in the [WIP] thread

[Rudolf Meier]

the first release version v4.2.23 of the new product is online

check out the new settings menu in the difficulty settings of the game, if you want to adjust the strengths of your ships

Edited April 28, 2023 by Rudolf Meier

[shelshok]

So, I've been playing around with the stock Dynawing ship for the last couple days, and I updated to the new KJRN last night, but since then the main tank breaks off when the boosters separate. I tried the first two slider options in KJRN's settings (more realistic and less realistic). Switching back to the previous version makes it not break off anymore.

[Rudolf Meier]

12 hours ago, shelshok said:

So, I've been playing around with the stock Dynawing ship for the last couple days, and I updated to the new KJRN last night, but since then the main tank breaks off when the boosters separate. I tried the first two slider options in KJRN's settings (more realistic and less realistic). Switching back to the previous version makes it not break off anymore.

thanks for the report... I tried it and can confirm that the tank separates immediately when the boosters are separated... I will investigate this to find out what's going on

[Rudolf Meier]

I have created an update... some joints were too weak (in case of non ideal mass and break force relations of joints)

this is now fixed in version v4.2.24

thanks of the report of @shelshok I was able to find it

Edited May 2, 2023 by Rudolf Meier

[shelshok]

Awesome. Look forward to trying it!

[Maelstrom Vortex]

On 5/2/2023 at 4:49 PM, Rudolf Meier said:

I have created an update... some joints were too weak (in case of non ideal mass and break force relations of joints)

this is now fixed in version v4.2.24

thanks of the report of @shelshok I was able to find it

Having some pretty serious issues with structural linkage failures between multiple components after the reload from a save. Some tweak scaled, some not. I've been using a mod that allows the changing of structural link types so I can get around the "landing gear always defaults to heaviest" strutting problem and set almost all parts to grandparent.  

It only seems to occur upon a reload or a physics change.  The craft can literally work fine for hours until a reload and the types of things that break seem to be semi-random.

In one instance the links between the fuel tanks and the wings failed alone and the wings simply fell off in atmosphere. I redesigned the craft, used different tanks, make no other changes. The craft has been in orbit and has loaded from a save before. Now other parts are having linkage failures. It's as if the save games are forgetting the strutting or the linkage patterns.

Things I've tried:

Adjusting KJR setting intensity before a reload of the same save. 
Adjusting using cheat so structural links become unbreakable.
Adjusting using game settings to disable physics and g-force limiters on parts. 

No combination of the above 3 items prevents this failure. When the cheat is used the error goes away and the craft still fails as if the same errors occurred.

I do have a persistent save from which this craft will load normally and successfully in orbit. But the moment I quick save and then reload it, it shatters. Any ideas?

Edited June 14, 2023 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Rudolf Meier]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:05 PM, Maelstrom Vortex said:

I've been using a mod that allows the changing of structural link types so I can get around the "landing gear always defaults to heaviest" strutting problem and set almost all parts to grandparent. 

So, do you use Auto-Struts and KJR at the same time then? This may be a cause of those problems.

 

... and, a general idea -> try the debug version of KJR (just to make it clear: it's not meant for debugging KJR, but for debugging failing ships). This one can show you all the joints that the game has and that KJR adds. It would make debugging easier.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

1 minute ago, Rudolf Meier said:

So, do you use Auto-Struts and KJR at the same time then? This may be a cause of those problems.

 

... and, a general idea -> try the debug version of KJR (just to make it clear: it's not meant for debugging KJR, but for debugging failing ships). This one can show you all the joints that the game has and that KJR adds. It would make debugging easier.

Thanks for that.. I've been kinda looking for it.. is it build into KJR? Where might I find it? I was not aware that KJR was meant to fully replace auto-strutting. I'll turn autostruts off going forward. I assume turning autostrutting off won't affect existing craft files and I might have to rebuild them?

[Rudolf Meier]

15 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

Thanks for that.. I've been kinda looking for it.. is it build into KJR? Where might I find it? I was not aware that KJR was meant to fully replace auto-strutting. I'll turn autostruts off going forward. I assume turning autostrutting off won't affect existing craft files and I might have to rebuild them?

you can find it here Releases · meirumeiru/Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement (github.com) ... unfortunatelly you have to install it manually (today it's called "gui" and no longer "debug")

yes, KJR should replace auto struts completly

I think you can disable autostruts also in flight

what I think what happens is, that for some reason your vessel is bending and when autostrut and KJR build the extra joints, they do it differently (KJR does build them sort of "pre-stressed" and tries to pull back stuff to where it should be which should prevent part drift and problems like that, while autostruts don't), which leads to internal forces working against each other and this can cause breaking joints which will destroy the ship...

I'm not fully sure, because in theory it should also work pretty well with autostruts... in most cases the creation of the joints and autostruts happen in a specific order which should make it work... but... for the moment, that's my guess... could also be that a combination of mods is responsible for it or maybe its something that only happens in special ships...

[Maelstrom Vortex]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:22 AM, Rudolf Meier said:

you can find it here Releases · meirumeiru/Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement (github.com) ... unfortunatelly you have to install it manually (today it's called "gui" and no longer "debug")

yes, KJR should replace auto struts completly

I think you can disable autostruts also in flight

what I think what happens is, that for some reason your vessel is bending and when autostrut and KJR build the extra joints, they do it differently (KJR does build them sort of "pre-stressed" and tries to pull back stuff to where it should be which should prevent part drift and problems like that, while autostruts don't), which leads to internal forces working against each other and this can cause breaking joints which will destroy the ship...

I'm not fully sure, because in theory it should also work pretty well with autostruts... in most cases the creation of the joints and autostruts happen in a specific order which should make it work... but... for the moment, that's my guess... could also be that a combination of mods is responsible for it or maybe its something that only happens in special ships...

I have almost exclusively noticed in space-plane type designs. I use another mod that breaks the normal auto-strut heavy on the landing gear. and usually set them to grand-parent because by default they are always strutted to heavy which causes its own major issues.. so I've been trying to work around that and i don't think going KJR only solves that problem. All I want to do is get some sort of config where I can dock a space plane and undock it without it going boom. Or noodlefying like this. It's almost like I only have a choice between my types of disintegration."

Thank you for the link.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Rudolf Meier]

6 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

All I want to do is get some sort of config where I can dock a space plane and undock it without it going boom. Or noodlefying like this.

Yeah... docking... :-) ... I've built my own docking mod for this. I am currently testing those (IR-ConnectionSystem). All I can say is, that it looks promising...

But, I've no idea if there's something in your ship or configuration that KJR should handle differently. You can send me whatever you have that shows the problem in action...

[Maelstrom Vortex]

I am seeing nothing here screaming "This is a problem." But I did turn tweakables off.:

Full auto strut even comes up as, expectedly, disabled.

In flight after a reload: 
 

My only concern is it disables the ability to control where land gear strut and that could be a catastrophe with a station.

Update: Craft has been stable since the tweakables were turned off.. I can only hope it behaves properly connected to a station now.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Maelstrom Vortex

[shelshok]

On 5/2/2023 at 4:49 PM, Rudolf Meier said:

I have created an update... some joints were too weak (in case of non ideal mass and break force relations of joints)

this is now fixed in version v4.2.24

thanks of the report of @shelshok I was able to find it

Just a note that it still seems to be happening some of the time. Same issue. Just KJRN installed, and launching the stock Dynawing. Fuel tank breaks off sometimes when the boosters are decoupled after they shut down. Not always.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Problem solved regarding autostrut/kjr interactions. KJR appears to make reinforcement joints to moving parts and landing gear that can be destructive. So does autostrut unmodded. I now have two mods. Installed. I have KJR turned on with 0 extra struts level applied and reinforce existing struts turned on. I have "Autostrut Erything" turned on with auto-strut on all parts turned to grandparent (overriding the default autostrut heavy on landing gear), and manually disable the autostrut to robotic parts. Since KRJ doesn't recognize any struts on those parts, it doesn't have anything to strengthen and so does not cause a problem. Nor does it automatically strut them, since it's additional joints are disbaled. So I find that some elements of KRJ next are destructive.. as their automatic strut addition settings do not consider part types. However, I've found the other aspects of KJRN quite useful and continue to use the mod explicitly for joint and node strengthening of existing grandparented autostruts. Thus both bugs, avoided with 2 mods and adjusting settings on KJRN.

No noodling, no structural integrity fails.. and no base explosions since embracing this config.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Maelstrom Vortex