[1.12.1] JNSQ [0.10.0] [23 Sept 2021]

[OhioBob]

@N3N, you can do either - edit the config or use the patch - the result should be the same.  But as you say, you must remember to delete the patch should we release an update that includes the fix.

[N3N]

6 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

@N3N, you can do either - edit the config or use the patch - the result should be the same.  But as you say, you must remember to delete the patch should we release an update that includes the fix.

OK, thank you @OhioBob

[Kwebib]

4 hours ago, OhioBob said:

No, it is not intentional, nor is it normal.  Do you perhaps have Distant Object Enhancement installed?  It can pretty much blot out the stars depending on your settings.

Looks like it was a couple of things that was throwing me off. There is a period from about 0:00 to 1:00 and 5:00 to 6:00 (sunset and sunrise transitions, respectively) where the sky goes pitch black (even with just stock + JNSQ). Scatterer does make the night sky a little bit darker, though, and I'm also using a different skybox which has less stars in it than the vanilla skybox.

In short, I don't think it's an issue, although I would prefer Scatterer not dim the night sky at all.

[N3N]

Hello,

maybe this helps you to adapt faster for the newest Scatterer version:

Edited April 19, 2022 by N3N

[N3N]

On 4/13/2022 at 7:22 PM, caipi said:

You are not using EVE Redux, are you? I just checked, deleting EVE and using the latest scatterer with JNSQ made Jool, well, it ain't blue or green exactly, but also not turquoise. Let's just say it made it colorful again. So I guess if you want to use eve, use scatterer 0.0772. And if you don't use Eve, use the latest scatterer? I dunno. It might just be a question of tweaking the settings properly. I just did a quick check with the "out of the box settings". I have it working in my regular game. This was just a quick test environment.

On 4/13/2022 at 10:47 PM, OhioBob said:

JNSQ is not updated for any scatterer versions 0.08+.  You should use scatterer 0.0772.*

* Unless the most recent version(s) of scatterer has been updated to be backwards compatible with older configs, but the last time I checked this wasn't the case.

For your Info:

7 minutes ago, G'th said:

@N3N @caipi
So I loaded up JNSQ by itself and Jool is working fine with the latest version of Scatterer. So either JNSQ is already updated or something else was breaking your game. 

 

@OhioBob Do you know something about this?

Edited April 19, 2022 by N3N

[G'th]

Ah okay I may have lied, because I fixed something and didn't put two and two together. 

So what happened is that EVE integration on Jool (and several other bodies that need it) was set to false in planetlist.cfg. 

Without that toggled, it basically breaks the interacton between both mods. So if that is set to True, then it should fix the black jool problem. 

 

[N3N]

12 minutes ago, G'th said:

Ah okay I may have lied, because I fixed something and didn't put two and two together. 

So what happened is that EVE integration on Jool (and several other bodies that need it) was set to false in planetlist.cfg. 

Without that toggled, it basically breaks the interacton between both mods. So if that is set to True, then it should fix the black jool problem.

Hey @G'th,

Do you mean this "usesCloudIntegration = False" from this section:

		Item
		{
			celestialBodyName = Jool
			transformName = Jool
			loadDistance = 500000000
			unloadDistance = 1E+09
			hasOcean = False
			flatScaledSpaceModel = True
			usesCloudIntegration = False
			mainSunCelestialBody = Sun
			sunColor = 1.0,1.0,1.0
			eclipseCasters
			{
				Item = Laythe
				Item = Vall
				Item = Tylo
				Item = Bop
				Item = Pol
			}
		}

of this file: "\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\planetsList.cfg" ?

 

And if so, what else should be changed and into what?

Edited April 19, 2022 by N3N

[G'th]

8 minutes ago, N3N said:

Hey @G'th,

Do you mean this "usesCloudIntegration = False" from this section:

		Item
		{
			celestialBodyName = Jool
			transformName = Jool
			loadDistance = 500000000
			unloadDistance = 1E+09
			hasOcean = False
			flatScaledSpaceModel = True
			usesCloudIntegration = False
			mainSunCelestialBody = Sun
			sunColor = 1.0,1.0,1.0
			eclipseCasters
			{
				Item = Laythe
				Item = Vall
				Item = Tylo
				Item = Bop
				Item = Pol
			}
		}

of this file: "\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\planetsList.cfg" ?

 

And if so, what else should be changed and into what?

 

Yes thats it precisely. The same should be done for any other body that has the same issue. 

But do not toggle the EVE Cloud setting on the atmo.cfg under Jool in the planets folder. That will cause Jool to have the opposite problem and turn nearly white.

[N3N]

6 minutes ago, G'th said:

Yes thats it precisely. The same should be done for any other body that has the same issue. 

But do not toggle the EVE Cloud setting on the atmo.cfg under Jool in the planets folder. That will cause Jool to have the opposite problem and turn nearly white.

Hey @G'th,

Does it mean, I should set "usesCloudIntegration = True" to all planets in the "\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\planetsList.cfg" ?

[G'th]

3 minutes ago, N3N said:

Hey @G'th,

Does it mean, I should set "usesCloudIntegration = True" to all planets in the "\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\planetsList.cfg" ?

 

No, not all planets. Just the ones that are broken. If you try it, you'll notice pretty readily that turning it on if it isn't needed also breaks the visuals. 

Why that is I'm not too well equipped to say. I believe its to do with scatterer needing to be able to modify the clouds on the fly, but thats just my best guess. That'd be a question for blackrack on what that setting actually does and why it might break visuals on some planets but not others.

[Galileo chiu]

how much DV is needed for Mün Orbit?

[DeadJohn]

1 hour ago, Galileo chiu said:

how much DV is needed for Mün Orbit?

There's a system DV map in the 1st or 2nd post of the thread. That image is also saved in the JNSQ folder if you have the mod installed.

4900 + 1545 + 375 = approximately 6820 to orbit Mun depending on how efficiently you fly.

[Galileo chiu]

9 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

There's a system DV map in the 1st or 2nd post of the thread. That image is also saved in the JNSQ folder if you have the mod installed.

4900 + 1545 + 375 = approximately 6820 to orbit Mun depending on how efficiently you fly.

I meant from the mun surface to orbit

[caipi]

1 hour ago, Galileo chiu said:

I meant from the mun surface to orbit

Have you looked at the dV chart yet that DeadJohn mentioned? The "Ascent: 880" tells you that you need 880 dV to ascend from the surface into an orbit - or vice versa.  And you need essentially around the "capture" amount to return from Mün to Kerbin.

YMMV

[Galileo chiu]

1 hour ago, caipi said:

Have you looked at the dV chart yet that DeadJohn mentioned? The "Ascent: 880" tells you that you need 880 dV to ascend from the surface into an orbit - or vice versa.  And you need essentially around the "capture" amount to return from Mün to Kerbin.

YMMV

thanks

[cxg2827]

My recent mission to Duna and Ike.  Likely going to Edna/Dak next before Eve/Gilly.

 

[Death Engineering]

3 hours ago, cxg2827 said:

My recent mission to Duna and Ike.  Likely going to Edna/Dak next before Eve/Gilly.

 

Cool!  You didn't even need to get rid of your drop-tank (if that is what you have connected to the habitation/science module.    

[sbiancio]

Hello everybody i just cleaned up completely my mod folder cause i needed to unclog the game a bit and since i was there i decided to try this one out, specially for the resize of the system. My prooblem is, do we have to manually apply the scale that we want the mod to work in or is automatic? Cause i tried a game and it didn't seem like the planet was bigger, it felt like playing stock and i got on orbit with a super random basic craft, while i remember playing with 2.5x rescale and i was struggling at first. So is this a recurrent problem or i need to add some mods to enlarge the system? thanks 

[fleventeen]

4 hours ago, sbiancio said:

Hello everybody i just cleaned up completely my mod folder cause i needed to unclog the game a bit and since i was there i decided to try this one out, specially for the resize of the system. My prooblem is, do we have to manually apply the scale that we want the mod to work in or is automatic? Cause i tried a game and it didn't seem like the planet was bigger, it felt like playing stock and i got on orbit with a super random basic craft, while i remember playing with 2.5x rescale and i was struggling at first. So is this a recurrent problem or i need to add some mods to enlarge the system? thanks 

No rescale is necessary, it should come out of the box at 2.5x rescale. If you are unsure if the mod is working, the point at which you transition to "space" should be higher than the stock 70km (I don't remember exactly how much, maybe 120km). Also, your velocity in low orbit should be in the ~4000m/s range vs. stock ~2300m/s.

[OhioBob]

6 hours ago, sbiancio said:

Hello everybody i just cleaned up completely my mod folder cause i needed to unclog the game a bit and since i was there i decided to try this one out, specially for the resize of the system. My prooblem is, do we have to manually apply the scale that we want the mod to work in or is automatic? Cause i tried a game and it didn't seem like the planet was bigger, it felt like playing stock and i got on orbit with a super random basic craft, while i remember playing with 2.5x rescale and i was struggling at first. So is this a recurrent problem or i need to add some mods to enlarge the system? thanks 

All the planets are just made bigger, there is no resizing going on.  Check the planet information in the Tracking Station - the radius of Kerbin should be 1600 km.

You're not still getting stock Kerbin are you?  If it looks like stock Kerbin, then it's stock.  If so, you've installed something incorrectly.

[sbiancio]

ok i checked and everything seems fine, orbital  velocity should be around 3300m/s, atmosphere ends at 80.... the only thing is that i dont know maybe its a feeling but feels different than i was playing before with sigma dimensions.

Like im using BDB and with this one i can reach orbit easily with the first available 2 stage rocket in career, while i remember i struggled a bit on sigma dimensions and supposedly they are the same size... unless i was mistaken and the Sigma mod was way bigger than 2.5 without me realising it hahaha

[sbiancio]

18 hours ago, fleventeen said:

No rescale is necessary, it should come out of the box at 2.5x rescale. If you are unsure if the mod is working, the point at which you transition to "space" should be higher than the stock 70km (I don't remember exactly how much, maybe 120km). Also, your velocity in low orbit should be in the ~4000m/s range vs. stock ~2300m/s.

ok i checked and everything seems fine, orbital  velocity should be around 3300m/s, atmosphere ends at 80.... the only thing is that i dont know maybe its a feeling but feels different than i was playing before with sigma dimensions.

Like im using BDB and with this one i can reach orbit easily with the first available 2 stage rocket in career, while i remember i struggled a bit on sigma dimensions and supposedly they are the same size... unless i was mistaken and the Sigma mod was way bigger than 2.5 without me realising it hahaha

[OhioBob]

On 5/1/2022 at 11:40 AM, sbiancio said:

ok i checked and everything seems fine, orbital  velocity should be around 3300m/s, atmosphere ends at 80.... the only thing is that i dont know maybe its a feeling but feels different than i was playing before with sigma dimensions.

Like im using BDB and with this one i can reach orbit easily with the first available 2 stage rocket in career, while i remember i struggled a bit on sigma dimensions and supposedly they are the same size... unless i was mistaken and the Sigma mod was way bigger than 2.5 without me realising it hahaha

JNSQ vs. Stock @ 2.5x with SD are very similar, though JNSQ should actually be a little harder.  Both Kerbins have the same surface gravity, but JNSQ's Kerbin is slightly bigger and more massive - 1600 km radius vs. 1500 km.  Getting to low Kerbin orbit in JNSQ typically takes about 4900 m/s delta-v.

Here's more information about how JNSQ is sized if you are interested (warning !- math stuff):

Spoiler

It is presumed that stock KSP is a scaled down analog of our real-life solar system.  The orbital distances of the inner planets in KSP are exactly 1/11th the distances of Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars.  The size of the planets are at a slightly different scale, though this is likely just due to rounding.  Earth at 1/11 scale would be 579 km, which got rounded up to 600 km.  I figure the radii of celestial bodies are at a 1/10.625 scale.  This would make Kerbin 6375 km and Duna 3400 km at real scale, which are very close to the real-life sizes of Earth and Mars.

Another way to check scale between KSP and real-life is by comparing the gravimetric parameters of Earth (3.986005E+14 m³/s²) and Kerbin (3.5316E+12 m³/s²).  Assuming the same surface gravity, Earth would have to be SQRT(3.986005E+14 / 3.5316E+12) = 10.624 times larger than Kerbin.  (I use 10.625 just because the math works better, producing more rounded numbers when converting.)

JNSQ is not just a scaled-up version of stock.  It is intended to be 1/4 real scale.  So as far as distances go, if JNSQ is 1/4 real scale, and stock is 1/11 real scale, then JNSQ is 11/4 = 2.75 times larger than stock.  But again we are not a just a direct 2.75x rescaling of stock.  Kerbin's orbit in JNSQ was tweaked to produce a year of exactly 365 days of 12-hours each.  The orbits of the other planets retain their stock size relative to Kerbin, though with some rounding.  The only significant difference is that Eeloo's orbit was pushed farther out to accommodate the planet Lindor.  Quite a few liberties have been taken with the orbits of the moons, primarily to try to make things a bit more realistic.

As far as the dimensions of the planets go, JNSQ is approximately 10.625/4 = 2.65625 times larger than stock.  However, the sizes of many planets were adjusted to produce more realistic densities.  So rather than scale up by size, I scaled up by mass.  That is, all the planets in JNSQ are 2.56525² = 7.055664 times more massive than their stock versions.**  The radius and surface gravity of each planet was then computed from mass and density.  Radius and gravity just ended up wherever they ended up and I didn't care how the values compared to the original stock bodies.  Both radius and surface gravity where rounded off, so the actual ratio of JNSQ mass to stock mass may be a little different than 7.055664.  Moons were sized up the same as the planets, except many of the largest ones where decreased in mass because I believed them to be unrealistically large.

** In the real world we would expect the mass to increase by the cube of the radius, but in that case, density remains the same while surface gravity increases proportional to the radius.  But in KSP we keep the surface gravity the same, so mass increases by the square of the radius, and density decreases inversely proportional to radius.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by OhioBob

[fleventeen]

3 hours ago, sbiancio said:

ok i checked and everything seems fine, orbital  velocity should be around 3300m/s, atmosphere ends at 80.... the only thing is that i dont know maybe its a feeling but feels different than i was playing before with sigma dimensions.

Like im using BDB and with this one i can reach orbit easily with the first available 2 stage rocket in career, while i remember i struggled a bit on sigma dimensions and supposedly they are the same size... unless i was mistaken and the Sigma mod was way bigger than 2.5 without me realising it hahaha

Maybe you just got a lot better at the game and didn't realize it.  

If you find it too easy you could try to find some mods that rebalance part masses and engine performance.

Edited May 1, 2022 by fleventeen

[CDSlice]

4 hours ago, sbiancio said:

ok i checked and everything seems fine, orbital  velocity should be around 3300m/s, atmosphere ends at 80.... the only thing is that i dont know maybe its a feeling but feels different than i was playing before with sigma dimensions.

Like im using BDB and with this one i can reach orbit easily with the first available 2 stage rocket in career, while i remember i struggled a bit on sigma dimensions and supposedly they are the same size... unless i was mistaken and the Sigma mod was way bigger than 2.5 without me realising it hahaha

It’s probably because you are using BDB, the vast majority of the rockets in that mod are designed to be able to get to orbit in 2.5x scale (because the real world rockets could). It also sticks lots of parts early in the tech tree along with lots of experiments so you can easily get Thor or Delta parts pretty quickly and get to orbit.