Getting different resources to be in different areas of a world

[Superfluous J]

I've just started playing with resources. I'm not using any pre-made resource packs and am playing with my own. I've got the resources to spawn. I can see them with a scanner. So I've figured out that much.

However, they all seem to spawn in one of two variations, that are basically inverses of each other. If I have 2 resources, there's about a 50/50 chance they're in the exact same spots (with different abundances but the maps look the same) or in exactly opposite spots. If I have 3 resources, it seems that 2 of them are always in exactly the same spots on a world.

I poked through the CRP configs (but didn't install it, and sadly can't tonight) and I don't see anything in them that ... I don't even know what it would do. Set a seed per resource or something?

Anyway, I'm wondering if anybody knows how CRP - or any resource pack - avoids this isssue. Or, do they have it and everybody just accepts it?

[DStaal]

Resources should be randomly distributed, based on their percent chance, abundances, and variances.  These can be set on a per-body or even per-biome basis if you really want to - check out the 'Water.cfg' config in CRP to see some examples.  I've not noticed any issues with this.

The other thought is: How are you looking at them?  A simple orbital scan would look different than a ground-truthed scan - the orbital scan will just show biome averages.

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, DStaal said:

The other thought is: How are you looking at them?  A simple orbital scan would look different than a ground-truthed scan - the orbital scan will just show biome averages.

Hmm maybe that's why they look so similar, but it implies they're different from biome to biome in the same way though I suppose at that level there are only two ways the biomes can be different from each other, they can have more, or less than their neighbor.

Is there an easy way to show the true global distribution? I was just using the big scanner. I will slap the pinpoint scanner on it tonight and verify that the concentrations vary more wildly there.

[DStaal]

34 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Hmm maybe that's why they look so similar, but it implies they're different from biome to biome in the same way though I suppose at that level there are only two ways the biomes can be different from each other, they can have more, or less than their neighbor.

Is there an easy way to show the true global distribution? I was just using the big scanner. I will slap the pinpoint scanner on it tonight and verify that the concentrations vary more wildly there.

I mostly play with ScanSat, which modifies this slightly - but yeah, the narrow-band scanner should give you better detail.  Landing a surface scanner will give you more detail yet - but only locally.  With ScanSat, there's three levels of detail available: Rough biome (the large scanner), detailed biome averages (the narrow-band, or the survey scanner plus the surface scanner in a *different* biome), or detailed (any biome you've scanned *and* sampled with the surface scanner).

If these are your own generated resources, you may want a high variance and a low dispersal on the resources to make them more clearly different and have a 'spikier' distribution - but without at least a narrow-band scan you won't be able to tell the difference.

[theJesuit]

I believe that resources in vanilla CRP (and ore in stock) juts get global random distribution.

This will be more discerning, but I don't know whether it is only for JNSQ and maybe GPP?

I'm soon to embark on doing the Simplex Resources in a similar style to RR this though, but that may not be your thing.

Peace.

[JadeOfMaar]

@5thHorseman I think your issue is simply because there so few resources. I think the exact same happened to @theJesuit and his Simplex system which also has only 3 crustal resources. It becomes much less obvious when you have more resources. You can get around perhaps, by changing the seed value (not the DLC's ROC seed) at the top of your persistence file (the save itself).

Edited July 31, 2019 by JadeOfMaar

[Superfluous J]

6 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@5thHorseman I think your issue is simply because there so few resources. I think the exact same happened to @theJesuit and his Simplex system which also has only 3 crustal resources. It becomes much less obvious when you have more resources. You can get around perhaps, by changing the seed value (not the DLC's ROC seed) at the top of your persistence file (the save itself).

Haha I was just perusing Rational Resources to see if it was a better fit for what I wanted. It was weird to be reading one of your posts as the alert came up that you'd replied to one of mine.

I'm hoping to make this a bit more general than for a specific save, ideally have something I can release as a resource pack. I'll poke through the Simplex thread as well, my ideas may end up being quite similar to his from what I remember of it.

I wish there was a cheat menu option for "Just show me the actual resource distributions on this world for real. I don't care that I'm cheating that's why I'm in the cheat menu." If such a display exists please point me at it

Edited July 31, 2019 by 5thHorseman

[theJesuit]

The idea for Simplex is that there are three 'mineable' Ore crustal resources.

The thinking in the next update is that they will translate into the basics of 12 usable resources found in the game and used in the Simplex system.  It is a simplified and non-onerous resource system.

HydrateOre (which will be hard to find) processed to LiquidFuel

NaturalOre (plentiful) can be processed to Oxidizer + AlumFuel, or MetalParts + BadAir 

RareOre (fewer places) can be processed to Ablator + Shielding, or CustomParts + Xenon

 

HydrateOre with RareOre makes OrganicSlurry

RareOre with NaturalOre makes SolidFuel

NaturalOre with HydrateOre make MonoPropellant

 

BadAir and OrganicSlurry can be reprocessed to Air and Consumables for the Kerbalism SimplexLiving profile.

MetalParts and CustomParts are used with ExtraPlanetary Launchpads.

 

Alum fuel is going to be like a proposed Aluminum/ oxidizer rocket that could be used on the moon without needing that valuable water - it would be a later tech tree thing.  Something like it exists in KSPIE, but i'll supply one too.  Low thrust, low ISP.

So, 12 resources coming from three ores.

Peace.

[JadeOfMaar]

9 hours ago, theJesuit said:

This will be more discerning, but I don't know whether it is only for JNSQ and maybe GPP?

Currently it's for just the stock planets and JNSQ, however, it's been adopted by Whirligig World made by @GregroxMun and is in the sights of a few other planet pack makers.

9 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I wish there was a cheat menu option for "Just show me the actual resource distributions on this world for real. I don't care that I'm cheating that's why I'm in the cheat menu." If such a display exists please point me at it

Install SCANsat then do an orbit survey as usual. Then you can use the window as shown in the link ahead, and easily toggle resource overlays (only in map view, of course):

8 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Alum fuel is going to be like a proposed Aluminum/ oxidizer rocket that could be used on the moon without needing that valuable water - it would be a later tech tree thing.  Something like it exists in KSPIE, but i'll supply one too.  Low thrust, low ISP.

Alumina (one of the defaults in the SCANsat resource overlays) is that resource, representing Aluminum Oxide.

 

 

[theJesuit]

9 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Alumina (one of the defaults in the SCANsat resource overlays) is that resource, representing Aluminum Oxide.

 

I should have said : Name change pending.  Still trying to think of ideas otherwise it points too closely to a particular RL element.

Something like MexalFuel. Or HeavyFuel. Or GritFuel.

Probably lookin at MexalFuel as this ties into MetalParts being formed out of the same Ore but using a furnace rather than ISRU.