Rosatom rocket engine failure

[DDE]

Alright, boys, girls and green people, fresh catch.

Actually mostly nothing out of line with earlier descriptions - apparently the hospital ended up badly contaminated, but the military decon units descended on it and scrubbed it clean. Reports of prickling are consistent with a beta burn, but since only one of the dozens of medics checked had any Cs infiltration, it sounds like the masks did their job and the whole ordeal is scummy, terrifying, but largely inconsequential.

Except for the bath contaminated with cesium that the military took away instead of scrubbing.

That, and the medic asserts the casualties died from ARS/radiation poisoning.

Anyone willing to compare that with plume spread projections?

And now just to toot my horn:

Fer the lulz, about Poseidon:

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by DDE

[YNM]

3 hours ago, DDE said:

Doesn't seem to be much interest in that: the location isn't really in question.

I guess it might slightly help to know whether it happens above ground or below.

 

Although yeah the pictures you just sent kinda speaks for itself.

 

INES Level 6, anyone ?

Edited August 21, 2019 by YNM

[DDE]

27 minutes ago, YNM said:

INES Level 6, anyone ?

I feel like that classification highlights the inconsistencies between the low level of independently observed rads, and the very high level of rads the victims had to be exposed to for class IV ARS; the rads in Severodvinsk sound more like an INES Level 5 or lower. Either the rads have been very efficiently kept from spreading, or the medic - assuming we're talking about testimony by someone in the know and not a glorified floorsweeper - is incorrect about the cause of death.

Still, as I said some posts ago, beta burns are burns.

Actually, they shouldn't even be getting ARS from betas, but radiation dermatitis. Either they were exposed to a sudden criticality, or it wasn't лучевая болезнь.

Edited August 21, 2019 by DDE

[farmerben]

We still need more evidence.  Cesium 137 is proof of fission product leakage.  However, that does not establish that it came from this experiment.   Cesium 137 exists at detectable levels throughout Russia and surrounding countries from the Chernobyl disaster.  In the immediate aftermath of a core explosion, one would be able to detect dozens of other isotopes near the site.  

None of the reports I've seen so far have high credibility.  There are certain people who could prove or disprove a core explosion with near 100% certainty given a sample from near the site.  But, those reports have not surfaced yet. 

 

[DDE]

32 minutes ago, farmerben said:

There are certain people who could prove or disprove a core explosion with near 100% certainty given a sample from near the site.  But, those reports have not surfaced yet. 

Yes, and one of the few groups of such people have been experiencing "technical issues".

[DDE]

Interesting timing

Yes, Gerasimov always holds his head like that.

[DDE]

Some words of caution about the latest statements at the highest of levels:

 

[kerbiloid]

In KSP I would try an ISRU. A craft with a reactor producing short-living isotopes for RTG.

Though, can hardly imagine such atompunk irl.

Spoiler

In Fallout maybe, Though, it's almost a kind of irl if count hours spent there...

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

And now we have another complication.

 

[Nightside]

Flew for 2 hours?

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Nightside

[DDE]

(by 20 cm)

[DDE]

RosHydroMet air sample analysis is in:

• strontium-91
• barium-139
• barium-140
• lanthanium-140

and noble gas decay products thereof.

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4072602

[kerbiloid]

Roshydromet described the Severodvinsk cloud composition.
(upd: ninja'd)

According to their description, the cloud contained products of radioactive Ba, Sr, and La decay.
⁹¹Sr (9.3 h)
¹³⁹Ba (83 min)
¹⁴⁰Ba (12.8 d)
¹⁴⁰La (40 h) appeared from ¹⁴⁰Ba
and radioactive inert gases produced by their decay.

¹³⁷Cs is not mentioned.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/673950

Edited August 26, 2019 by kerbiloid

[sh1pman]

@DDE @kerbiloid so it clearly wasn’t an RTG of any kind then. An actual reactor blew up. 

[kerbiloid]

Just now, sh1pman said:

@DDE @kerbiloid so it clearly wasn’t an RTG of any kind then. An actual reactor blew up. 

What stops from buying both?

[sh1pman]

5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

What stops from buying both?

If there was a destroyed RTG, there would be what, plutonium, uranium, maybe thorium in the cloud? But there’s only fission products, and they can only come from a reactor.

[kerbiloid]

2 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

If there was a destroyed RTG, there would be what, plutonium, uranium, maybe thorium in the cloud?

In Soviet Russia RTG use strontium, and its here in the list.

(Though,, probably it's another isotope, not RTG. But as they listed only short-living ones, maybe it's an admixture or so).

Edited August 26, 2019 by kerbiloid

[sh1pman]

7 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

In Soviet Russia RTG use strontium, and its here in the list.

Because in Soviet Russia RTGs use Strontium-90 which has a half-life of 29 years. It decays to yttrium-90 which then decays to zirconium-90 which is stable. None of these isotopes were detected.

The detected strontium is strontium-91 which is highly radioactive and could only come from a reactor.

Edited August 26, 2019 by sh1pman

[kerbiloid]

3 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Because in Soviet Russia RTGs use Strontium-90 which has a half-life of 29 years. It decays to yttrium-90 which then decays to zirconium-90 which is stable. None of these isotopes were detected.

The detected strontium is strontium-91 which is highly radioactive and could only come from a reactor.

In fact, Ba and La is enough, lol. Unlikely they could come from RTG. At least, La.

Edited August 26, 2019 by kerbiloid

[sh1pman]

18 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

In fact, Ba and La is enough, lol. Unlikely they could come from RTG. At least, La.

No known RTG fuel produces Ba-139 and Ba-140 as decay products. Wikipedia even marks them as fission-only products. Same with Sr-91. La-140 came from Ba-140.

[kerbiloid]

4 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Ba-139 and Ba-140

They said it's like a ¹⁴⁰Battery.

Edited August 26, 2019 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

2 hours ago, sh1pman said:

could only come from a reactor.

Agreed.

An option not yet considered - and running contrary to public statements, but that's to be expected - is Shelf.

44 kWe self-contained nuclear reactor module. One might say... Kilopower?

The Kremlin may place far greater emphasis on the Harmony underwater sonar net than on the various advanced missile designs, hence the cover story.

And it's consistent with lack of evac during prior "tests".

What could ruin this hypothesis is if Sarov wasn't involved in that particular sphere of design.

A Rosatom presentation indicates Shelf is in the same readiness category as Akademik Lomonosov, which has achieved criticality last spring. However, Shelf's developed is Afrikontov, not from Sarov: http://www.innov-rosatom.ru/events/grouparctic/5e334977fec5bf72d7dedcb904a914c0.pdf

Edited August 26, 2019 by DDE

[DDE]

 

[DDE]

Second blast may have been Finnish miners.

https://www.norsar.no/in-focus/new-data-sheds-further-light-on-description-of-incidents-reported-in-north-russia-article1815-863.html

[DDE]

If you can look past the spin, a guy in the American Conservative makes interesting claims regarding cesium RTGs. He is, however, several hours too late.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-medias-russian-radiation-story-implodes-upon-scrutiny/

His source link; .mil domain sites appear to have Russia blocked by default, hence archive: http://archive.md/8ChW3

Quote

This study sought to identify the feasibility of utilizing a radioisotope thermal (thermoelectric/stirling) generator to provide power to a deployed USMC Expeditionary Force. The conceptual system architecture was constructed through use of the systems engineering process, identifying necessary subsystems and integration boundaries. Radioisotope comparison was then performed, utilizing weighted design factors. It was determined that Sr-90, Cs-137, and Cm-244 would be the most effective fuel sources for this mission area.