chaos_forge Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 As a DRM-free player, this is pretty important to me. Additionally, the presence of DRM has a very high possibility of interfering with people who have multiple installs to test out different mod lists. I hope KSP 2 continues the tradition of the original game in being released DRM-free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweeker Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Not just DRM, also spyware such as red shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 There are very valid uses of a DRM free KSP. Let's make sure we stay on that side of the topic, and not venture into areas prohibited by our Community Guidelines, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork13 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Tweeker said: Not just DRM, also spyware such as red shell. Even if they did re-implement redshell (which they almost certainly won't because of the backlash from last time they tried to), you could just delete the redshell DLL to disable it without impacting the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autolyzed Yeast Extract Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) PIN PLEASE VERY IMPORTANT quote me if theres any info from take 2/star theory mod please pin this thread or one like it Edited August 20, 2019 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rpatto92 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 This is a really important point. Several points to contend with here, but I think we probably do need some intense discussion around DRM and RED SHIELD; if not a comment directly from the dev's on these two issues. Answers to these question and more will likely determine whether or not I purchase KSP2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanDumbKerb Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 My friend must be confused, what is DRM/RedShield and why is it bad? He is so dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos_forge Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, RanDumbKerb said: My friend must be confused, what is DRM/RedShield and why is it bad? He is so dumb DRM is basically any kind of software that restricts when/how you can use it. For example, most game store clients such as Steam are a form of DRM because you can only launch the game if Steam allows you to. The purpose of DRM is ostensibly to prevent piracy, but many people are opposed to it because the presence of DRM means you can't have control over a game you bought & paid for running on your own computer. Also, given how easily most DRM schemes get cracked by pirates, there's little to no evidence it actually does anything to stop piracy. All it does is screw over legit users. Red Shell is spyware that 2K tried to slip into KSP. It runs in the background of your PC and collects all sorts of data unrelated to the game, including stuff such as web browser activity. They removed it after there was a massive community backlash, but it's still worrying that they even tried. Edited August 20, 2019 by chaos_forge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanDumbKerb Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Ahhhhhh. Thanks man. I did some googling but you had a much better explanation. Kudos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechBFP Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) Meh I don’t care either way. I have never had an issue with DRM that didn’t take more then a few minutes to figure out, and that was almost half a decade ago the last time I had to even do that. If it does have DRM then I hope they allow “mod sets” or something that allows you to easily switch between sets of mods, and that the game no longer borks mods when it updates. If they can accomplish those two things, then I no longer have a need to make separate installs and it wouldn’t make a difference to me. Also plenty of DRM implementations don’t care if you copy the game to different folders as long as it is the same computer (so it has the same fingerprint), so that’s a valid solution as well. Edited August 20, 2019 by MechBFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos_forge Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, RanDumbKerb said: Ahhhhhh. Thanks man. I did some googling but you had a much better explanation. Kudos! Not a man, but no problem! 2 hours ago, MechBFP said: Meh I don’t care either way. It's fine if you don't personally care, but many of us are opposed to DRM on principle, and for us the prospect of the KSP franchise no longer being DRM-free is very concerning, especially considering how few games have DRM-free versions these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechBFP Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, chaos_forge said: It's fine if you don't personally care, but many of us are opposed to DRM on principle, and for us the prospect of the KSP franchise no longer being DRM-free is very concerning, especially considering how few games have DRM-free versions these days. I get it, and good for you for fighting for your beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autolyzed Yeast Extract Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 DRM means no mods. Or it means that all mods are 1000% harder to make, and half of them are impossible to make. Either way, you don't want DRM in KSP just as much as people who actually have problems with DRM. This game specifically cannot have DRM because it lives and breathes solely through mods, so putting DRM into the sequel is financial suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechBFP Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said: DRM means no mods. That is just blatantly wrong for so many reasons I'm never going to bother to tell you why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughesMDflyer4 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 8:16 AM, chaos_forge said: the presence of DRM means you can't have control over a game you bought & paid for running on your own computer. I don't understand, what control are you worried about losing? I've played many games over the years (including those that have modding support) and I can't think of an instance where I was restricted by DRM, or even considered which games do or don't have it. I feel like people are making this out to be a way bigger deal than it actually is. I can understand if it affects gameplay, but if it's something you never know about/see, it shouldn't be a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 1. Ten years ago I've bought a C++ IDE (a well-known one, not a one man's project). Then its owner changed and site got disabled. No more activation. Bye, IDE. 2. Why at all should everybody control my PC? 3. I have Steam client installed on a notebook, while KSP is on the desktop. So DRM → either an anti-DRM, or a pre-DRM version. Edited August 21, 2019 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos_forge Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, HughesMDflyer4 said: I don't understand, what control are you worried about losing? I've played many games over the years (including those that have modding support) and I can't think of an instance where I was restricted by DRM, or even considered which games do or don't have it. I feel like people are making this out to be a way bigger deal than it actually is. I can understand if it affects gameplay, but if it's something you never know about/see, it shouldn't be a concern. Because I bought and paid for a program, so why should I have to ask permission from some company to run a program I bought on my own computer? Just because companies promise to be nice and always let me play it doesn't mean I'm interested in giving up my right to control the software I own, any more than I would be interested in giving up my right to free speech if the government promised to always be nice and let me say what I want. I shouldn't need a reason to not have my rights infringed. Also, most DRM schemes depend on support from the company that created them. Once the company decides it's more profitable to shut down the servers than keep them running, poof you lose your ability to play that game forever. This happens all the time with older games: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjbped/nintendos-offensive-tragic-and-totally-legal-erasure-of-rom-sites Or, for a more contemporary example, what if a game studio suddenly decides their already released game is gonna be on the Epic store now? If the game has DRM, they have the ability to make it so that you can't run a game that you bought and paid for on a different platform without installing the Epic game store client (which sells your data to third parties, in case you didn't know). I wouldn't be surprised if something like this has already happened, and if not I'd be willing to bet it's going to happen soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klgraham1013 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 DRM free or bust. GOG or bust. We deserve to own the products we buy. Not rent them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbart Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said: DRM means no mods. Or it means that all mods are 1000% harder to make, and half of them are impossible to make. Please elaborate. I have a really hard time understanding why DRM would mean no mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghanim Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 DRM KSP2 will not break mods directly because Steam is DRM and highly moddable games like Garry's Mod and Skyrim exist and have healthy modding scene, but what DRM can do is break existing mods, because Steam forces updates and updates will break mods, and with DRM we can't copy KSP and run it without fearing Steam will break mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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