KSP2, same old same old

[Psycho_zs]

YAY! A flame war! )

YAML rules. That's all there is to say on the matter.

[Xurkitree]

The save files can be in the same format. It does its work. If you want something simpler to work with save file editing, try KML

 

[DStaal]

Honestly, the config files text format is fairly brilliant, actually.  While I'd prefer it to be something more standard, that's a minor preference.

The save file itself...  If I were re-implementing the game, I'd probably turn it into an SQLite database instead.  Higher performance, more resilient to corruption, and only slightly harder to edit.

[Delay]

How exactly did we manage to go from the thread topic to save files and XML?

[DStaal]

3 minutes ago, Delay said:

How exactly did we manage to go from the thread topic to save files and XML?

We found a more useful topic to discuss. 

[Delay]

I guess, but it doesn't really belong here, does it?

[linuxgurugamer]

6 hours ago, Curveball Anders said:

Possibly do it proper XML, otherwise  I agree.

Gaah.  I hope not.  Yes. It may have advantages, but the disadvantages far outweighs the advantages when you start having non techies look at and edit the files

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Yes. It may have advantages

Such as....?

[linuxgurugamer]

Just now, Brikoleur said:

Such as....?

I didn't say what advantages, I said "may".  I'll leave that to the XML proponents to provide a list of advantages

[Superfluous J]

21 minutes ago, Delay said:

How exactly did we manage to go from the thread topic to save files and XML?

We're us.

[Kerbart]

6 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

We're us.

Let’s see...

• Continueing KSP1 is... fraud | pointless | essential | as if KSP2 should be taken serious
• The KSP2 release is... too early | too late
• KSP2 parts should be... the same | completely different, of course
• Kerbals Kulture... lolz expolzions | can we finally grow out if that?
• Multiplayer... it will ruin the game | finally!
• Perfomance will suck | the game will fly

 I might have forgotten a few (dozen) but it’s pretty representative of the forum opinion on KSP2 sofar.

[ModZero]

17 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

Such as....?

Low ambiguity, tooling, solid serializers and code generators available without it being a binary format. Established (if horrible) schema format and namespacing. It has plenty of bad properties, but general-purpose serialization formats are all horrible once you scratch the surface.

JSON looks nice, but lacks comments, is in many places poorly defined, and it has number format inherited from JS, which can bite you hard if you handle large numbers - thankfully it's only really a problem if you handle really big number, but unless you're describing solar systems or something you're unlikely to hit it. YAML is an attempt to make JSON better, but between the references and the fact that it's actually a superset of JSON it's actually tricky to implement well, and enables horrifying structures (I'd know, I worked with Ansible, though that includes _templated_ YAML).

I'm kind-of partial to HCL, but honestly, nowadays I've become one of those horrible people who think that you should just embed a Python or Ruby interpreter and expose a configuration interface in that language. Ruby has the benefit of enabling really nice DSLs, and if your users want to use JSON or whatever they can just use import the files themselves.

[nikokespprfan]

35 minutes ago, ModZero said:

JSON looks nice, but lacks comments.

I am a non-expert, so do with this as you like.

https://hjson.org/

[Xavven]

On 8/26/2019 at 3:22 PM, Teek said:

Why bother getting up in arms about it when there's still so much we don't know?

I feel like this should be posted in over half the KSP 2 threads on this forum.

[BuckleUpBones]

On 8/27/2019 at 8:30 AM, Jimbodiah said:

there is no way in h€ll I am buying this game

Pop jump 16% with KSP2 new preview, it's showing today that there still a good market.

Edited August 28, 2019 by BuckleUpBones

[Guest]

On 8/26/2019 at 2:30 PM, Jimbodiah said:

After seeing this video and the same problems with sloppy joints as KSP1, there is no way in h€ll I am buying this game. I've seen two videos now of KSP2 pre-alpha gameplay and the fps were absolutely horrible with the same stutter and low fps as we already have.

If they are not going to learn a single thing from everything wrong with the current KSP, then what is the point of making a new version?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Please listen to the first seconds of the video that state underdevelopment. The framerate is slower than the actual game since the game is still in development. They are still working on it kinda why we had the cinematic trailer

[chaos_forge]

19 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

I'm pretty sure the first noodle rocket had joint rigidity cranked allll the way down. 

From a programmer PoV I understand why they showed it -- to demonstrate that rigid-body physics are still in and work the same way as in KSP1.

From a marketing PoV it was really dumb to show it, bless their hearts.

I really hope that's the case. The wobbly rockets are pretty much the only thing I've seen about KSP2 that gave me any serious pause, so if that fear turns out to be misguided I would be very happy indeed.

[BuckleUpBones]

On 8/27/2019 at 8:30 AM, Jimbodiah said:

fps were absolutely horrible

It could be rendering in cinematic mode.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by BuckleUpBones

[magnemoe]

5 hours ago, The Doodling Astronaut said:

Please listen to the first seconds of the video that state underdevelopment. The framerate is slower than the actual game since the game is still in development. They are still working on it kinda why we had the cinematic trailer

They said that performance is around 5 times better regarding ship sizes. 
 

[Clockwork13]

I think KSP2's main appeal will be that the game is being rewritten to better support things like interstellar travel and colonization. People say that we shouldn't judge it by its current FPS too much since it's in pre-alpha, but I think it's a red flag that it's already this low and it's likely going to get worse as they add new gameplay mechanics and whatnot. I'd like to be wrong on that though

EDIT: It looks like they're using some kind of shaders in the gameplay footage, which *might* be the cause of the low FPS rather than the game itself

Edited August 28, 2019 by Clockwork13

[Delay]

9 minutes ago, Clockwork13 said:

I think KSP2's main appeal will be that the game is being rewritten to better support things like interstellar travel and colonization. People say that we shouldn't judge it by its current FPS too much since it's in pre-alpha, but I think it's a red flag that it's already this low and it's likely going to get worse as they add new gameplay mechanics and whatnot. I'd like to be wrong on that though

EDIT: It looks like they're using some kind of shaders in the gameplay footage, which *might* be the cause of the low FPS rather than the game itself

Optimization is one of the last steps. First you want to make sure that everything's running at all, then you can worry about framerates.

Otherwise...
KSP 2 is highly optimized! Great, but it only includes Kerbin, the rest is broken beyond any form of playability.

[Xurkitree]

20 minutes ago, Clockwork13 said:

I think KSP2's main appeal will be that the game is being rewritten to better support things like interstellar travel and colonization. People say that we shouldn't judge it by its current FPS too much since it's in pre-alpha, but I think it's a red flag that it's already this low and it's likely going to get worse as they add new gameplay mechanics and whatnot. I'd like to be wrong on that though

EDIT: It looks like they're using some kind of shaders in the gameplay footage, which *might* be the cause of the low FPS rather than the game itself

You forget that there will be all sorts of development tools and debuggers running in the background as well. They would also be testing certain prototype implentations of stuff. Honestly, the space stuff seems pretty okay, atmo is atmo.

[Delay]

11 minutes ago, Xurkitree said:

You forget that there will be all sorts of development tools and debuggers running in the background as well.

Exactly. Debug code can significantly impact the framerate as well!

[whitespacekilla]

On 8/26/2019 at 4:56 PM, mikegarrison said:

Maybe the current devs told them "Wobbly joints are part of the fun! Be sure to include them!"

So far as I understand it, this is a problem endemic to unity games. It's difficult (time consuming and not always doable) to use unity's engine and tools to create "perfect joints". Especially in dynamic contexts (like where joints are created dynamically between editable parts...).

Frankly, I don't think much will change game engine wise without a total re-write (which I also don't really want to see because so much that was found in KSP1 would be lost in a re-write). I'll buy KSP2 when the KSP1 community starts to fade.

[linuxgurugamer]

After meeting the developers behind KSP2, asking questions, I am feeling a lot happier.

I'm  in Seattle for Pax West, and met with Private Division and Star Theory today.  Really hyped