[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[FourGreenFields]

Speaking of flaps:

Just tried to build a Ju 87.

Now because I already had problem with it in 0.90, I tried with normal flaps first.

Then with junkers flaps.

What kinda bothers me is how junkers flaps nearly always stall. I had them at 10° max flap deflection, and while driving with flaps at takeoff position they stalled.

They "did" decrease stall speed (with raised flaps) by maybe 1m/s, and also added more warning before it turned into a fully-grown stall.

Still, do junkers flaps behave correctly? From my very basic knowledge about airflow I didnt expect them to stall that easily.

[Svm420]

I'll consider rewriting UI_FloatRange entirely if that's what it takes to keep TweakableEverything and FAR playing more-or-less nicely. Thoughts?

I know its not your mod, but do you think this issue would affect tweakscale as well? I have notice sometime when I open the menu on a part everything slows down drastically till I close the tweak window. I see in the log FAR is updating voxels several times. Now I know that it isn't FARs fault if it is being spammed with update calls so I am just curious so as to tell the tweakscale dev.

[B15HOP_xmen]

The X-15 quote was about losing control authority from control surfaces, not about stability.

Well just put those rocket powered RCS units on the tips of the wings. It gives pitch and roll ability. Then put some on the nose and tail to give more pitch and a little bit of yaw.

[Goddess Bhavani]

I'm frankly amazed some Gerry Anderson designs in the 60s had this feature, which I neglected to add to my Angel Interceptor replica. No wonder it can't attain its (as shown on TV) top speed of Mach 3.95

[toadicus]

I know its not your mod, but do you think this issue would affect tweakscale as well? I have notice sometime when I open the menu on a part everything slows down drastically till I close the tweak window. I see in the log FAR is updating voxels several times. Now I know that it isn't FARs fault if it is being spammed with update calls so I am just curious so as to tell the tweakscale dev.

TweakScale will prompt onEditorShipModified calls second-hand through its use of KSPAPIExtensions. I'm not familiar enough with how those work to know if they exhibit the same problem; a quick read of the code suggests it might.

Edit: Some testing suggests this may not be the case. The problem with the stock FloatRange tweakables in my first post is definitely still the case.

Edited May 14, 2015 by toadicus

[kcs123]

Didn't see that someone reported this, but there was some reports about wierd craft mass behaviour.

I think it is somehow related with FAR wing-mass-strength configuration.

When you building craft, weight is showed properly. But when you save and load same craft, after reloading craft weight is not reported properly.

Pictures speeks for themselfs.

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Not a big issue if you aware of it, but for people who does not use MechJeb or KerbalEngineer it could be annoying.

This also explains why my craft behave out of CM-thrust aligment once in space.

[Ser]

A picture of your craft would be nice.

Here's a pair of screenshots of the aircraft that refuses to slow down:

[Gfurst]

When you building craft, weight is showed properly. But when you save and load same craft, after reloading craft weight is not reported properly.

Pictures speeks for themselfs.

Actually a tweak scale thing, the engineer reports a wrong craft mass, but actually doesn't change anything in flight. Did you scale anything?

I've reported it to them, but if its also related to wing's mass, than it needs to update also on vessel load.

[Hodo]

Here's a pair of screenshots of the aircraft that refuses to slow down:

http://i.imgur.com/YD06jFk.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/294JnoP.png

From what I can tell in those pictures your spoilers are deploying at a steep enough angle to have any affect other than some downward push. Try increasing the pitch angle on the spoilers to 40-45deg.

[Gfurst]

Here's a pair of screenshots of the aircraft that refuses to slow down:

Yup, as suspected, that is more like a bullet than anything, that wing is terrible for anything sub-sonic and those 4 tons of mass concentrated in a little dragless craft.

Check out test I did a few pages back.

[kcs123]

Actually a tweak scale thing, the engineer reports a wrong craft mass, but actually doesn't change anything in flight. Did you scale anything?

I've reported it to them, but if its also related to wing's mass, than it needs to update also on vessel load.

Nope. All stock parts. Although I have Installed tweakscale, but non of craft parts are scaled.

I think I noticed this behaviour before I instaled tweakscale, just recently I made more test to find reasons behind it.

I will double check this without tweakscale installed at all.

Edit:

Double checked it. Same thing without tweakscale.

Edited May 14, 2015 by kcs123

[Kitspace]

Any news on the speed thing?

[Chaos_Klaus]

You guys know that the jet engines need lots of time to spool down after you cut the throttle, right? maybe they still thrust although you shut them of 10 seconds ago.

[Ser]

Yup, as suspected, that is more like a bullet than anything, that wing is terrible for anything sub-sonic and those 4 tons of mass concentrated in a little dragless craft.

Check out test I did a few pages back.

The interesting thing is that a more massive aircraft (with 2xGoo and 2xMaterial Bays added) feels better. It stalls earlier and has a fine "parabolic" approach to a stall speed. But the spoilers are still awful as they cause a huge pitch up amount and a very sparse breaking. So you suggest adding more wings?

From what I can tell in those pictures your spoilers are deploying at a steep enough angle to have any affect other than some downward push. Try increasing the pitch angle on the spoilers to 40-45deg.

They are already at 40 degrees. That is maximum.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ser

[Gfurst]

@Ser

Yup, try adding more wings, you don't need delta/swept-back if you're not going super-sonic, keep an eye on that weight as rocket parts are much heavier than the already heavy plane parts.

I did some custom patches to reduce the cockpit and tail weight to something more sensible. Also reduce the wing mass, if you don't plan to put much stress on the craft.

And also, as mentioned by ferram, there also a discrepancy in lift and drag, which when sorted should give a bit less L/D ratio, helping on slow down as well.

[Ser]

@SerAlso reduce the wing mass, if you don't plan to put much stress on the craft.

Doesn't wing mass affect lift as well? Or am I wrong?

[BudgetHedgehog]

Doesn't wing mass affect lift as well? Or am I wrong?

No, just strength. Lower mass = more likely to break under high G load.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ObsessedWithKSP

[Kitspace]

Did anybody encounter a situation where some of the spoilers get ignored by the calculations in the editor?

[Gfurst]

Btw, did the other thread I've mentioned ever got created? I got some fun stuff to post.

[Hodo]

Btw, did the other thread I've mentioned ever got created? I got some fun stuff to post.

yep

HERE

[plausse]

First, a boring story: I used to love oldFAR, so I downloaded Euler, but couldn't cope. I tried for three hours to build something that would make sense, and it was all unstable, fiddly and more chore than it was fun. Then I deleted it and tried newSTOCK, but got bored again after three hours as its model of air seems to be filled with tiny invisible people that gently (actually not so gently) guides your plane to its destination.. So I went to bed.

Then I downloaded it again. And spent about two hours properly learning to use the tools, and read up a bit more about plane forms and area rule etc. I then carefully built a boring plane (Mig 15 lookalike). It flew... Like a Mig 15. I then built a Mig 25 lookalike... Which flew like a Mig 25. I just now built something betweeen a TSR2 and an XB70... and it did a 1000m/s circumnavigation of kerbin at 18000m (59l liquid fuel remaining) with two AJE J58s.

So. Even a ...... can build stuff that works.. It just takes some time and effort but at least I find it worth it and very rewarding. Probably wouldn't play KSP two years down the line without FAR. And now its better than ever.

Therefore: Ferram, have you considered a Patreon account? Paypal would work too, Patreon is just a bit more elegant (and allows a bit of PRing).

[MarvinCZ]

Therefore: Ferram, have you considered a Patreon account? Paypal would work too, Patreon is just a bit more elegant (and allows a bit of PRing).

A Paypal donation link is in the first post. Sorry if you know that and are just offering an alternative.

Edited May 15, 2015 by MarvinCZ

[blowfish]

Therefore: Ferram, have you considered a Patreon account? Paypal would work too, Patreon is just a bit more elegant (and allows a bit of PRing).

There's a Paypal link in the OP

EDIT: Ninja'd

Edited May 15, 2015 by blowfish

[Gfurst]

Guys just started seeing this documentary, really cool stuff to learn about the world's only passenger super-sonic craft.

[NathanKell]

[MOD] logless post moved to Support (modded) forum.