[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Rivvik]

The wing structure in vanilla Kerbz produces a downward lift force.

[ss8913]

Literally all of my spaceplane, which fly beautifully with far, flip over vertically through some unbeknownst pitch-up force shortly after takeoff, and then crash... when using stock aero.  so I blame squad for not just making far part of stock, and... yeah that still confuses me.  so I'm pretty much avoiding ksp until far is ready.

[msnbcorp]

Tested FAR on last version. There still a control surface bug on a lot of part. (control surface missing) . I think it's due to remoteTech2. Any compatibility chance to get the two mods working properly ?

[Kurtvw]

Hey @ferram4, very happy to see you getting time to work on FAR for 1.2, its been a long October without everyone's favorite aerodynamics mod.

Thanks for all you do, man.

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Kurtvw

[Jonfliesgoats]

I have not had a chance to experiment with FAR.  Does it simulate interference, vortices and general planform effects?  I notice that, even players with FAR, don't seem to make much use of winglets, etc.

[DrLicor]

AFAIK, this are the features:

Features

 

• Shape-Based, Vessel-Centered, Aerodynamics - Long, thin shapes drag less than wide, flat shapes, and smooth changes in body width reduce drag. The shape of the vessel as a whole, not individual parts, controls drag, so shape the vessel as you see fit.
• Emergent Fairings and Cargo Bays - The voxel model method FAR uses allows for the actual shape of the vehicle to play a role in how lift and drag are applied. Build a hollow shell, and close it up, and everything inside it will be protected from the airflow as it should.
• Wing Effects - Realistically adjusts lift based on wing position and configuration: wingtips lift less and drag more than wing roots.
• Stall - Passing the critical angle of attack suddenly reduces lift and greatly increases drag. Can put planes into tailspins, flat spins, and cause crashes.
• Mach Effects and Area Ruling - Lift and drag will vary as expected with Mach number. Supersonic planes will need to properly area rule themselves for optimum flight characteristics.
• Body lift - All parts lift: a fast enough brick will fly, if not that well.

But ofcourse, you could have that looked up for yourself, so I'm not that helpfull haha,.

Anyway, I do use winglets with bigger planes to be more stabilized. But the mod itself doesn't create vortices. The planform effect you're talking about, is kinda simulated by FAR I think. Unlike the stock aerodynamics, FAR is calculating everything on it's shape, not the parts. In the stock game, at least 1.1.x and before, you could place a wing into a fuselage, and it would produce lift.

[Jonfliesgoats]

Very informative!  You know I read about it, but without talking to someone who actually uses FAR I am not sure what I am missing out on.  I was ranting some days ago about how I thought vertical takeoff ssto projects were more satisfying than hotol projects, and I think my root frustration is still stock aerodynamics.

I am on consoles, so no FAR for the time being.  Thanks for the info!

[DrLicor]

Ah indeed, the stock aerodynamics aren´t that good indeed. I don´t know how it is for console, you guys didn´t have an update with new areodynamics did you. Maybe mods get supported over time for console too. I hope so for the console player, I can´t play KSP without mods anymore.

[Jonfliesgoats]

I used to play on PC a long time ago and got strung out on KER.  Playing straight stock has its own fun in that a little more is invested in each craft in terms of research.  Plus I have broken out my long-retired graphing calculator (actually a graphing calculator app).  So I get to pretend I'm an educated chimp again!

 

[DrLicor]

Yep, totally agree, but after playing a long stock carreer, I wanted something new. And once you´re used to RSS-RO, you won´t, don't want and can´t to go back haha. 

Also, I´m kinda sucker for modding. I remember the old day, when I used to play GTA San Andreas, I modded the crap out of it haha. Same with KSP now. Especially when you´ve made thing by yourself. In my case, I finished a RO-config for Cormorant Aeronology and I'm currently doing the same with Space Shuttle System. I'm not a modmaker at all, but I like to edit thing and have the learning progres it gives you. 

[Vanamonde]

@Jonfliesgoats, your question about this mod has been merged into the thread for this mod. 

[Variety_Pack]

Where do you people get these mods?? I used to get them off of CKAN but now nothing I care about is on the modlist. I can manually install things, sure, but there's a reason somebody made CKAN (Cthulhu take mercy on their saintly souls).

 My freshly-updated KSP yearns for it's polish of Realism and Ferram, so I'll just be doing it manually but I was kinda wondering if it's a permanent thing or...?

[msnbcorp]

There is a branch for 1.2 posted several pages ago. But it is not intended to be downloaded. Tested it on 1.2, it don't work and mess the control surfaces sooooo.....

I think we have to wait, in pain.

[MunGazer]

51 minutes ago, Variety_Pack said:

Where do you people get these mods?? I used to get them off of CKAN but now nothing I care about is on the modlist. I can manually install things, sure, but there's a reason somebody made CKAN (Cthulhu take mercy on their saintly souls).

 My freshly-updated KSP yearns for it's polish of Realism and Ferram, so I'll just be doing it manually but I was kinda wondering if it's a permanent thing or...?

I'm not entirely certain how CKAN works, but I bet that it probably will only show you stuff that is "most definitely" verified as fully up-to-date.  I'm 99.99% sure, however, that FAR not being on CKAN yet since the 1.2 update is not a permanent thing and has to do entirely with the fact that an individual human being is having to devote his personal time without pay to code all the changes, run tons of testing iterations, process feedback, ensure compatibility with other mods, and Kraken only knows what else.  So that's why most of us tend to suck him off when we can, because who would take his place?  I also have developed the feeling that I can't play KSP without FAR.  We need to get life insurance going for ferram4 so that if he bails we can pay a developer to pick up the torch.

Anyway, to answer your question more specifically, I use CKAN for everything I can and then manually install the rest.  In the meantime while waiting for FAR, I've just been playing career mode with KER and cheat-unlocked MechJeb2 from the very start.  If I can't yet design overly complex FAR aircraft that "look cool" and make me feel a sense of accomplishment, I can go after objectives in career mode and that is more engaging that building stuff for stock sandbox with no bd armory.

[Atrius129]

1 hour ago, Variety_Pack said:

Where do you people get these mods?? I used to get them off of CKAN but now nothing I care about is on the modlist. I can manually install things, sure, but there's a reason somebody made CKAN (Cthulhu take mercy on their saintly souls).

 My freshly-updated KSP yearns for it's polish of Realism and Ferram, so I'll just be doing it manually but I was kinda wondering if it's a permanent thing or...?

Pretty much every mod has a thread on these forums and has links you can download from. CKAN seems to be a last priority for most mod devs, especially when the mod is not yet stable with the new update.  If the mod you are looking for does not list as being available for the current release check either the Git or the last few pages of the thread; a lot of times there are fixes being worked on by either the author or a third party (eg. Padishar [in all his glory]).

 

[ss8913]

8 minutes ago, MunGazer said:

I'm not entirely certain how CKAN works, but I bet that it probably will only show you stuff that is "most definitely" verified as fully up-to-date.  I'm 99.99% sure, however, that FAR not being on CKAN yet since the 1.2 update is not a permanent thing and has to do entirely with the fact that an individual human being is having to devote his personal time without pay to code all the changes, run tons of testing iterations, process feedback, ensure compatibility with other mods, and Kraken only knows what else.  So that's why most of us tend to suck him off when we can, because who would take his place?  I also have developed the feeling that I can't play KSP without FAR.  We need to get life insurance going for ferram4 so that if he bails we can pay a developer to pick up the torch.

Anyway, to answer your question more specifically, I use CKAN for everything I can and then manually install the rest.  In the meantime while waiting for FAR, I've just been playing career mode with KER and cheat-unlocked MechJeb2 from the very start.  If I can't yet design overly complex FAR aircraft that "look cool" and make me feel a sense of accomplishment, I can go after objectives in career mode and that is more engaging that building stuff for stock sandbox with no bd armory.

CKAN knows about several dev repos (MJ2 for example) which you can optionally turn on.  This is pretty handy if you're someone who wants to try out dev builds.. lets CKAN auto-update to the latest build when posted, and keeps the main repo "clean" for official releases, for those who prefer to wait for a definitely-certified-working version.  I'm not sure if this is something that the CKAN people "just do," or if it's something that has to be specifically opted into by the mod developer, but it is a thing.  MJ2, ScanSat, RemoteTech, and Trajectories seem to be the ones that you can do this with right now.  Go to Settings -> CKAN Settings, click New below 'metadata repositories' and activate the ones you want to install dev builds for.

[blowfish]

CKAN gets new versions of FAR from actual releases on Github automatically.  It determines what KSP version it is compatible with based on the .version file.  No release of FAR has been marked as compatible with KSP 1.2, so it will not show up.

But enough about CKAN in this thread...

Edited November 2, 2016 by blowfish

[paul23]

I'm still using ksp 1.0.5 due to breaking bugs in version 1.1 and 1.2.0 (orbital decay & vab flickering). - Will an update work automatically for 1.2.1? - Oh and is there any way I can help? I study aerospace engineering (though my master is about control systems, I'd make mechjeb in real life :P), I write scientific programs (python) on a daily basis; though I have no experience with unity. - I'd still love to spent some free time helping ironing out the bugs for 1.2.1...

[SkyHook]

1 hour ago, paul23 said:

I'm still using ksp 1.0.5 due to breaking bugs in version 1.1 and 1.2.0 (orbital decay & vab flickering). - Will an update work automatically for 1.2.1? - Oh and is there any way I can help? I study aerospace engineering (though my master is about control systems, I'd make mechjeb in real life :P), I write scientific programs (python) on a daily basis; though I have no experience with unity. - I'd still love to spent some free time helping ironing out the bugs for 1.2.1...

Orbital decay and VAB flickering have both been solved as of KSP 1.2.1, jsyk.

[TheKurgan]

Don't take this as a nag to update, it's not, but honestly, this is the only mod I would pay money to see updated

[mechanicH]

1 hour ago, TheKurgan said:

Don't take this as a nag to update, it's not, but honestly, this is the only mod I would pay money to see updated

I believe the DONATE link is on the first page ;P

[JayPee]

@paul23I want your job, please give it to me

[msnbcorp]

7 hours ago, TheKurgan said:

Don't take this as a nag to update, it's not, but honestly, this is the only mod I would pay money to see updated

Hum, this, principia, Background Processing and few others like Deadly Reentry, but yeah, i agree !

[Program Kerbal Space]

Great mod! even though I cant play it, because it was not updated to 1.2 but cool mod!

On 9/14/2012 at 7:22 PM, ferram4 said:

Make sure that you copy over everything in the GameData folder. Serious issues will occur unless this is done.

what issues? 

[blowfish]

2 hours ago, Program Kerbal Space said:

what issues? 

Issues like things not working.  FAR, like many mods, depends on other mods to work.  In this case, ModuleManager and ModularFlightIntegrator (which are included in the download).  If you were to copy FAR but not the other two things would break.