I think I'm done

[Demordrah]

I just lost another career save due to crashing and corrupted save data, which has been an ongoing problem with this game since I started in June 2019.

Everything I have created and accomplished in this game in the year+ that I have been playing is gone, for the second time.  I can't keep doing this.

This is really heartbreaking

[Superfluous J]

I can understand that.

Just remember, it was all bits in a computer anyway. The only *real* affect it had on the world was your enjoyment creating it. And you still have that.

[Demordrah]

Yeah, but there's the point.  I lost my creations.  That's the hard part.  You guys who play on PC at least have all your craft files saved separately from everything else. Console players get screwed in that regard.

Pretty much all of my hobbies involve creating in some manner.  Be it photography, 3d modeling, music, etc.  A lot of those things aren't tangible, but they still matter to the person who created them.  It's no different here.

I just spent the better part of the last week on a massive undertaking involving the simultaneous deployment of 10 vessels from LKO to the Jool system, to establish a mining and refueling operation around Vall, and inserting communications satellites around the remaining four moons.  I'm sure you can appreciate how difficult it is on console to juggle maneuver nodes for a fleet of that size, without the aide of mods like KAC.  Nine out of 10 got gravity assisted by Tylo, and in the end, everything ended up exactly where I intended it to be.  Now it's gone.

[BadOaks]

If you go into the save folder there should be backup persistent saves named something like: zKACBACKUP20200619195021-persistent, with both .loadmeta and .sfs types. Pick the most recent pair and rename them to persistent.loadmeta and persistent.sfs, that should hopefully recover your save.

I fail at reading comprehension and missed that you were on console, sorry.

Edited July 3, 2020 by BadOaks

[Demordrah]

2 minutes ago, BadOaks said:

If you go into the save folder there should be backup persistent saves named something like: zKACBACKUP20200619195021-persistent, with both .loadmeta and .sfs types. Pick the most recent pair and rename them to persistent.loadmeta and persistent.sfs, that should hopefully recover your save.

No such thing exists on the PS4 version.

[klgraham1013]

I feel bad for the console players.  From the Flying Tiger disaster to these ongoing issues.  It's a disgrace if you ask me.  ...but this is where we are in the industry today.  Consumers are more than willing to buy unfinished products, and will even defend companies for doing so.  Claiming games as a service, or a live product.  Pronouncing games as dead when updates stop coming and companies actually finish them.  It baffles the mind that not only are we accepting such quality these days, but that some will even defend the practice of it.

[Entropian]

Right now KSP is 75% off on Steam and GOG.  I highly recommend you get the PC version; it's way less buggy than the console edition.

[Demordrah]

11 minutes ago, Entropian said:

Right now KSP is 75% off on Steam and GOG.  I highly recommend you get the PC version; it's way less buggy than the console edition.

I understand that, but it doesn't really address the problem.  Just more sweeping under the rug.  I know first hand how rewarding an experience Kerbal Space Program can be.  I just want console players to have those opportunities without fretting about whether it's all going to vanish in an instant because of issues that have persisted for such a long time 

I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, considering how long this game has been out.

[theicon32]

13 hours ago, Demordrah said:

I understand that, but it doesn't really address the problem.  Just more sweeping under the rug.  I know first hand how rewarding an experience Kerbal Space Program can be.  I just want console players to have those opportunities without fretting about whether it's all going to vanish in an instant because of issues that have persisted for such a long time 

I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, considering how long this game has been out.

It's not an unreasonable expectation at all. Ports are always difficult to dial in, but if they put something up for sale then a purchaser should expect the product and quality to be as advertised. If they can't meet that expectation, then perhaps it shouldn't be ported. I guess that's a judgement call. 

Sorry you have to deal with that. I just had an issue that would have me erase the few hundred hours I've put into the game (on PC) since I got it about 5 weeks ago (don't judge me- quarantine). It was such a defeating feeling that I actually downloaded Unity and Blender so I could mod a part myself that would correct the issue, but ended up editing some config files and fixing it. If I didn't have that option and instead lost everything, despite how addicted to this game I've become I would have taken an indefinite break. 

[coyotesfrontier]

22 hours ago, Demordrah said:

I just lost another career save due to crashing and corrupted save data, which has been an ongoing problem with this game since I started in June 2019.

Everything I have created and accomplished in this game in the year+ that I have been playing is gone, for the second time.  I can't keep doing this.

This is really heartbreaking

I don't think it's the dev's fault for not including backups, Sony and Microsoft don't typically allow games to have a backup system for fear of exploits.

[Demordrah]

1 minute ago, coyotesfrontier said:

I don't think it's the dev's fault for not including backups, Sony and Microsoft don't typically allow games to have a backup system for fear of exploits.

You're right, but it's not Sony's or Microsoft's fault that the console version is riddled with bugs that have existed for ages.

[klgraham1013]

8 hours ago, coyotesfrontier said:

I don't think it's the dev's fault for not including backups, Sony and Microsoft don't typically allow games to have a backup system for fear of exploits.

No, but it's the dev's / publisher's fault for the game being in such a state for years after release.

[pandaman]

I seem to recall the forums reactions to the announcement that KSP was coming to consoles.  They were along the lines of 'Bad idea', 'That will cause lots of problems', 'No mods'  etc etc... most (if not all) turned out to be true unfortunately. 

@Demordrah  if you can, grab it on Steam for PC while it is on offer.  I know it won't solve the problem, and I feel your pain, but it will at least allow you to enjoy the game again.

Edit...  Hopefully KSP2 has, and will, learn a lot from the KSP1 experience in this regard, and my gut feeling is that they are doing.  Not just with the console port, but with other game aspects too.

Edited July 4, 2020 by pandaman
Added KSP2 comment

[Lord Aurelius]

The whole rush to put KSP on consoles was really strange, and resulted in a lot more problems than just a buggy console port. It also resulted in a mad rush by the devs to push an unfinished alpha out the door as 1.0, and the fallout likely resulted in a lot of dev burnout and departures. It's only fairly recently with all the work put in by the new devs that the game has started to feel like it's actually out of early access now.

It's a shame too since I understand that not everyone has a decent PC and would prefer to play on consoles, but the reality is that good console ports are a LOT of work and far too many small studios make the mistake of spreading their limited dev resources too thin, resulting in not only a bad port but also hurting ongoing development of the original game.

It's all water under the bridge now, but I still remember how frustrated and disappointed I was with the devs through this whole fiasco.

Anyways, back on topic, I second the recommendation to just get KSP for PC. The minimum system requirements are actually surprisingly low, and I've been able to do a lot on just my ultrabook (although I strongly prefer my desktop). Not to mention how wonderful the world of KSP modding is.

[Demordrah]

13 hours ago, Lord Aurelius said:

The whole rush to put KSP on consoles was really strange, and resulted in a lot more problems than just a buggy console port. It also resulted in a mad rush by the devs to push an unfinished alpha out the door as 1.0, and the fallout likely resulted in a lot of dev burnout and departures. It's only fairly recently with all the work put in by the new devs that the game has started to feel like it's actually out of early access now.

I get that.  Similar thing happened with No Man's Sky.  The game is phenomenal now.  But with KSP, it seems like they're more focused on adding content rather than fixing game breaking bugs that have plagued the Enhanced Edition. I have seen people claim that you should only have a small handful of crafts on console, and don't build anything with more than 100 parts.  Kind of nonsense is that?  I would *almost* give credence to that if it actually solved any of the problems, but it doesn't.

I had a new career started.  Just got back from Minmus.  I had a total of 3 ships in the VAB list, none of which were over 50 parts.  There was nothing in space, and I had 3 active contracts.  I clicked to enter the VAB, game crashed.  It's almost as if nobody actually play tested the console version when the last patch was released, because it's the most unstable I have seen the game since I started playing in June 2019.

KSP is an amazing game in its own right, but I  would honestly be embarrassed to have my name on the product, as far as the console version is concerned.  It's really disgraceful how diluted the experience is at times due to ongoing issues.

[TAz00]

This game is so buggy. (and yes, I already reinstalled 3 times)

When sales takes over, the product takes the backseat. 

Things i've run into just yesterday.

1. Some kind of hyper symmentry bug in the builder.
2. Builder bugs thats been there from day one, where it dosnt understand symmentry you alt+copy parts with symmetry.
3. Using extremely excessive ram skipping between space center, tracking facility and vessels. Nothing is loaded, sitting in menu, eating 4gb of ram
4. Couldnt transfer fuel between fuel tanks, could get one transfer off, then I had to go back to space center, and back to vessel, to get ONE more transfer.
5. Fuel transfer is broken, transfers fuel into locked tanks
6. Getting stuck inside asteroids when de-coupling.
7. Manouvering nodes resetting/changing when going between space center and vessel
8. Couldnt get into VAB or tracking facility, or repair the launchpad after removing some debris from it. (where hovering over the wrong button, has the window disapear)

 

this game has gone to excrements
probably taken over my money grubbing middle managers, whipped by owners/investors to produce more content that brings in more purchases, not caring what happens to the engine. makes me sick seeing this happen to this game

Edited July 6, 2020 by TAz00
more reasons its bad

[Laie]

On 7/3/2020 at 10:27 AM, Demordrah said:

I just lost another career save due to crashing and corrupted save data,

No Backup? No compassion.

On 7/3/2020 at 11:47 AM, Demordrah said:

On 7/3/2020 at 11:43 AM, BadOaks said:

If you go into the save folder there should be

No such thing exists on the PS4 version.

Ouch.

I have no patience for fools who fail to save their game every once in a while, but if you're actually not allowed to create and manage your own savegames, well, that is pure evil. Bad things do happen, after all.

[TAz00]

7 minutes ago, Laie said:

No Backup? No compassion.

Shouldnt need a backup save, its a long time since this was beta. Also, your comment makes you look like an cheeks

[Demordrah]

7 minutes ago, Laie said:

No Backup? No compassion.

Ouch.

I have no patience for fools who fail to save their game every once in a while, but if you're actually not allowed to create and manage your own savegames, well, that is pure evil. Bad things do happen, after all.

I have been gaming since the late 70's, before we even had the option to create save game files.  I adopted the "save early, save often" practice when that mechanic was introduced with The Legend of Zelda, back in 1986.

You can create quick saves in KSP on console all you want, but every save that you create all get lumped into one master file (including the associated persistent save).  So, each career game exists as a single on-disk file, each science mode game exists as a single on-disk file, etc.

Backing up to the PS Plus cloud is the option we have, but when the uploaded file is corrupted, you're out of luck.

[Laie]

Just now, TAz00 said:

Also, your comment makes you look like an cheeks

I assure you this was 100% intentional. Data loss does happen: That's life. The mitigation effort is trivial (or should be) and well known. I you care about your data, back it up. If you don't, the presumption is that you never really cared.

But.

Please notice that the statement also serves as a rhetorical means to set up the corollary: if console players cannot save their data, or cannot keep their saves for longer than a few days, that goes way beyond anything I'd still describe as bug. I said "pure evil" and mean it.

[runner78]

Maybe KSP should introduce better save system like

1. Save new save in a temporary file
2. rename the old save file 
3. rename the new savefile to the targt name
4. delete the old file.

In this way, a complete loss of data should be avoided, since the old file is never changed directly. Some editors like WebStorm/PhpStorm do this, so far i know.

[Xavven]

12 hours ago, runner78 said:

Maybe KSP should introduce better save system like

1. Save new save in a temporary file
2. rename the old save file 
3. rename the new savefile to the targt name
4. delete the old file.

In this way, a complete loss of data should be avoided, since the old file is never changed directly. Some editors like WebStorm/PhpStorm do this, so far i know.

IT Professional here. Microsoft Office famously does this to avoid data loss and corruption. Ironically this has backfired in our current environment and actually causes data loss, but despite that, the concept in general is sound.