M1A2 Tusk Kit has M2 above the Main Gun

[Mikenike]

I was browsing the glorious internet. I saw pictures of the M1A2 TUSK kit with a centrally mounted M2SB above the main gun.

In this link there is a picture where you can clearly see the .50cal. What is the true purpose of the .50 mounted like this. They have a coaxially mounted 7.62 M240B/C next to the main gun, as well as a M2HB at the top where the commander's hatch is located, so why the extra-firepower located here of all places. It would have to be remotely fired. The extra firepower makes no sense, and this isn't Warthunder Low Tier where enough LMGs firing at you will go though your armor.  This is real life. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1a2-tusk.htm

[TheSaint]

I could probably take a stab at an answer to this, but I bet I know someone who would know better. @JoeSchmuckatelli, any insight into the question?

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Grin - I'm happy to speculate, but TUSK came after I left Iraq and the A2 (and SEP +etc) are Army variants - whereas I was a Jarhead. 

@Mikenike The most obvious thing (to me) is to give the Tank Commander a bit more flexibility in deciding upon the level of lethality he wants to employ vs a given threat.  I write this, because TUSK is explicitly an adaptation to urban combat.  Very, very few modern weapons can defeat Abrams in the open - but urban warfare and Russian ingenuity have shifted that (in these latter years)  to a degree necessary for the additional protection of the TUSK system.  But since the question is about the Fitty, I'll stick to that. 

There is two main reasons why our opponents are fighting in the urban areas 

1. People live there, and 

2. Urban combat is hellaciously difficult and levels the playing field a bit.  

Western forces are also at a disadvantage because (see 1, above) they have a self imposed restriction on collateral damage, especially towards the civilian inhabitants and culturally significant buildings. 

Adding another .50 gives the commander a little more flexibility to using the main gun (which can destroy buildings and over penetrate, risking damage to unintended targets) when the situation dictates.   It also allows for multiple engagement where you need the punch of a larger round.  The tank has a coax 7.62 and the loader has one as well - but sometimes even .30 caliber machineguns can fail to penetrate mud brick reliably - - so it's nice to have a weapon less destructive than the main gun, but which can be relied upon to eliminate the threat.  A coax fitty along with the Commander's MG allows for that. 

 

All of that said - I've not seen that configuration used.  It is on some plastic models and I've seen the mounts IRL... But I don't know how common it is to actually field the tank that way. 

 

Also - see this: https://www.quora.com/The-Israeli-Merkava-and-M1-Abrams-TUSK-II-tanks-sport-a-single-M2-Browning-50-caliber-heavy-machine-gun-mounted-directly-on-top-of-the-main-gun-barrel-How-effective-is-such-a-configuration-Would-that-make-for-a-good

Edited November 13, 2020 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[TheSaint]

5 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Grin - I'm happy to speculate, but TUSK came after I left Iraq and the A2 (and SEP +etc) are Army variants - whereas I was a Jarhead.

Well, yeah, but I'm an ex-bubblehead who hasn't seen a tank since I climbed all over an M60 at my dad's National Guard armory in the 1970s. So your speculation is probably more informed than mine.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

53 minutes ago, TheSaint said:

Well, yeah, but I'm an ex-bubblehead who hasn't seen a tank since I climbed all over an M60 at my dad's National Guard armory in the 1970s. So your speculation is probably more informed than mine.

Well - I am part of a group of really strange people who lived and loved the Armor community - and we tend to yammer at each other about tanks and tanking. 

... 

FWIW - I loved the M-60.  Never drove it (I was in the infantry when it was in service) but I will never forget my first in-person encounter with a platoon of them.   Loud does not begin to describe a sound felt both in the feet and the chest. 

 

They were awesome beasts 

Oh - and @Mikenike-I specified the urban threat in relation to infantry targets, but the. 50 does real well against a variety of vehicles on the current battlefield - and placing it on the main gun allows you to use the awesome systems tied to the Big BadaBoom Stick. The CWS isn't quite as capable (although it is MUCH improved from my A1 days!) 

[kerbiloid]

They've re-watched the 1st season of the Walking Dead and wanted moar anti-zombie guns.

Spoiler

 

Also they decided that the thick cannon barrel is a very comfortable seat for a machine-gunner.

[Mikenike]

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

They've re-watched the 1st season of the Walking Dead and wanted moar anti-zombie guns.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Also they decided that the thick cannon barrel is a very comfortable seat for a machine-gunner.

Thats one ugly tank. It looks like an M60 hull with an Abrams turret haphazzardly slapped on top. 

[Mikenike]

10 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

There is two main reasons why our opponents are fighting in the urban areas 

1. People live there, and 

2. Urban combat is hellaciously difficult and levels the playing field a bit.  

 

Ambushes are common. And mistakes are much easier to make. An M2 Bradley crew almost blew a bunch of SEALs away with his bushmaster due to a miscount of buildings. And there was one instance where an M1A2 almost blew away a blue building. All mistakes made in the fog of war. I just wanted to know why that put there. And your explaination makes a lot of sense. 

[kerbiloid]

Haven't they forgotten to equip it with PPSh?

Spoiler

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, Mikenike said:

Thats one ugly tank. It looks like an M60 hull with an Abrams turret haphazzardly slapped on top. 

Chieftain Mk 10.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chieftain_(tank)#/media/File%3AChieftain_Tank_(9628802829).jpg

Edited November 13, 2020 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Mikenike]

19 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Chieftain Mk 10.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chieftain_(tank)#/media/File%3AChieftain_Tank_(9628802829).jpg

It is. Good eyes man. 

[kerbiloid]

Three years later they realized that all these machine-guns also need protection.

M1A5 Abrams AdvTUSK Block 3 (Enhanced).

Spoiler

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by kerbiloid

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

19 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Three years later they realized that all these machine-guns also need protection.

M1A5 Abrams AdvTUSK Block 3 (Enhanced).

  Hide contents

 

no, dis! 

 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=Vp0vpfjM&id=DBA159B1DCDF40723626CA80A0485647950F73D9&thid=OIP.Vp0vpfjM0n1MvZWTfFRXOwHaFT&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fi.redditmedia.com%2f8iTlbfd0TG8UGI4kTmUkGQ7yvq1lGQj5pi2r-e1_UvM.jpg%3fw%3d320%26s%3dae73a9f0d96a6c80873f49dfc91ee4e6&exph=687&expw=960&q=warhammer++tank&simid=608013175939009331&ck=368C7DF17ED671C132121564E4832F05&selectedIndex=20&FORM=IRPRST&ajaxhist=0

(sadly, you have to wait 40k years for it)

...

But the current winner of  'needs MOAR guns' is Russia: 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[kerbiloid]

Based on the MG amount on the M1 TUSK, its crew advanced tactics is to break into a city block full of enemy grenade launchers in windows and start firing in all directions at once.

Why not, it's approved by the best ones.

Spoiler

***

Also the MG manufacturer lobby takes it chance. 

And the more machine-guns are installed  the thicker is the layer of machine-guns on top, the better is roof protection, instead of additional armor.

***

Another important aspects of the M1 TUSK design: the social one and the usability .

As everyone knows, the main user of the machine-gun is the loader.

The moar machine-guns you have on the tank, the more loaders can be added to the crew.
Based on the TUSK picture, at least three moar!

This solves a bunch of problems.

***

They now can increase the cannon caliber up to 6", like on MBT-70.
While it's hard for one loader to load >120 mm shells, now they may have:

Master Loader - sits in the turret and pushes a 6" shell from inside.

Top Loader - sits on top and pulls it through the barrel with a rope.

Pay Loader - gets sent for foods, goods, and other payloads.
Also receives payments from customers. Uses a machine-gun for better understanding and cooperation.

Free Loader - yet doesn't have his own machine-gun, so just sits somewhere and waits for TUSK Rev.2
Sometimes gets sent to broom the position or wash the tank.

 

The crew together now can silently bring the tank through the night street by hands, so it adds to the tank a limited stealth functionality.

 

All of that significatly enhances the tank usability.

***

The more loaders they have in the crew, the more low-class people get a chance to run a career.

It's a Socially Appreciated Decision, so the design is also known as M1 SAD.

***

Next gen TUSK also inculdes the RUST.

Spoiler

Retractable Urban Siege Tower

All machine-guns are installed on top of it, to reach the upper storeys.

As you can see, equipped with a minigun.
"Mini-" because this is not a proper caliber for such tough vehicle.