Does KSP really have spyware in it?

[DoctorDavinci]

7 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

All you said was that it was transmitting information in HTTPS

I did not say that ... All I said was that is is not sending using HTTPS from what I was told

Seems that I am responsible for all the comments saying that KSP is sending your personal data back to T2 ... I never said anything of the sort

@sarbian - I apologize if I misunderstood your post, but the way it was worded made it appear that you were speaking directly to me

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Gargamel said:

The "words" on the left of the coloumns are the variable names, the values on the right are their, well values.

Does ANY of it look like personal info at all to you?  It's written out in English. 

I see some ID variables as you say. Perhaps it isn't sending it. Honestly the concern is the ABILITY to do it. The US is concerned about nuclear war because of the POSSIBILITY of it not because its happened. If its just the start up it could be collecting information in game. I suppose that's good evidence but the concern that a hacker could attack Take Two and then us is still a threat. and take two can collect whatever data they want whenever. That's just what they are taking NOW. That being said its less concerning now but still a threat.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

14 minutes ago, Galileo said:

What exactly are you boycotting and why? In detail please.

I guess you haven't read the other 11 pages of this thread.

WHY: The EULA is unacceptable. They claim the right to huge amounts of personal info to sell to anyone they see fit.   It doesn't matter what they are or are not downloading today, what matters is that they claim the right to take all this personal data.

WHAT: I'm boycotting 1.4 and all the DLC. I'm no longer advising people to buy KSP, (quite the opposite). I won't be helping anyone in this game anymore, no more advice, no more tutorials. I was planning a section of my personal website to be devoted to KSP. Screw that.

And I'm advising everyone else to #boycottKSP

Here, I'm a reasonable man, if TT is a respectable company that isn't stealing my personal information and selling it to the highest bidder, then simply say so in the EULA!

but right now their EULA says the opposite.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

I guess you haven't read the other 11 pages of this thread.

WHY: The EULA is unacceptable. They claim the right to huge amounts of personal info to sell to anyone they see fit.   It doesn't matter what they are or are not downloading today, what matters is that they claim the right to take all this personal data.

WHAT: I'm boycotting 1.4 and all the DLC. I'm no longer advising people to buy KSP, (quite the opposite). I won't be helping anyone in this game anymore, no more advice, no more tutorials. I was planning a section of my personal website to be devoted to KSP. Screw that.

And I'm advising everyone else to #boycottKSP

Here, I'm a reasonable man, if TT is a respectable company that isn't stealing my personal information and selling it to the highest bidder, then simply say so in the EULA!

but right now their EULA says the opposite.

I'm not quite ready to boycott but the EULA saying that they may give it to whatever 3rd Party they please is concerning.

[sarbian]

2 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I see some ID variables as you say. Perhaps it isn't sending it. Honestly the concern is the ABILITY to do it. The US is concerned about nuclear war because of the POSSIBILITY of it not because its happened. If its just the start up it could be collecting information in game. I suppose that's good evidence but the concern that a hacker could attack Take Two and then us is still a threat. and take two can collect whatever data they want whenever. That's just what they are taking NOW. That being said its less concerning now but still a threat.

I won't blame anyone who is concerned about their privacy but your are sending more personal info by browsing this forum that what I see in the info sent by KSP. 

The one thing I am deeply annoyed by is that in the past we add a popup asking us if we wanted to send some info. If you replied no then the popup did not show up again. And now you don t get a message notifying you that now it send info anyway. So you don't really know that something changed.

[Temeter]

2 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

WHY: The EULA is unacceptable. They claim the right to huge amounts of personal info to sell to anyone they see fit.   It doesn't matter what they are or are not downloading today, what matters is that they claim the right to take all this personal data.

WHAT: I'm boycotting 1.4 and all the DLC. I'm no longer advising people to buy KSP, (quite the opposite). I won't be helping anyone in this game anymore, no more advice, no more tutorials. I was planning a section of my personal website to be devoted to KSP. Screw that.

And I'm advising everyone else to #boycottKSP

Here, I'm a reasonable man, if TT is a respectable company that isn't stealing my personal information and selling it to the highest bidder, then simply say so in the EULA!

but right now their EULA says the opposite.

Who is stealing your data and how? Tell me, where exactly do you give your name, adress, age, phone number, etc to Take 2 or Squad?

Just don't give your personal data to them (they generally don't ask) and everything is fine.

Just now, sarbian said:

I won't blame anyone who is concerned about their privacy but your are sending more personal info by browsing this forum that what I see in the info sent by KSP. 

The one thing I am deeply annoyed by is that in the past we add a popup asking us if we wanted to send some info. If you replied no then the popup did not show up again. And now you don t get a message notifying you that now it send info anyway. So you don't really know that something changed.

Yeah, that part bothers me a bit.

[Gorman]

5 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I see some ID variables as you say. Perhaps it isn't sending it. Honestly the concern is the ABILITY to do it. The US is concerned about nuclear war because of the POSSIBILITY of it not because its happened. If its just the start up it could be collecting information in game. I suppose that's good evidence but the concern that a hacker could attack Take Two and then us is still a threat. and take two can collect whatever data they want whenever. That's just what they are taking NOW. That being said its less concerning now but still a threat.

As you can see, it is well within the remit of an ordinary user to intercept and to see what they are sending out. Why would Squad or T2 risk using this facility to send anything too personal or unwarranted, knowing that any one of their users, especially the KSP user base, could find out what they were up to. The first time they are caught, they and probably T2 will be finished. Why would they take such a risk?

[FleshJeb]

Just now, sarbian said:

I won't blame anyone who is concerned about their privacy but your are sending more personal info by browsing this forum that what I see in the info sent by KSP. 

The one thing I am deeply annoyed by is that in the past we add a popup asking us if we wanted to send some info. If you replied no then the popup did not show up again. And now you don t get a message notifying you that now it send info anyway. So you don't really know that something changed.

We went through this with the AVC mod, didn't we? As I recall, Squad made them put in an explicit opt-in.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

2 minutes ago, Temeter said:

Who is stealing your data and how? Tell me, where exactly do you give your name, adress, age, phone number, etc to Take 2 or Squad?

For the 4th time now:

It doesn't matter whether or not I can hide the data from them, what matters is them CLAIMING THE RIGHT TO IT. and forcing you to agree. 
(And all that data is on your hard drive someplace, and you're agreeing to let them dig for it.) 

Granted in the current build, so far today, we haven't caught them taking it, but that's immaterial. 

Change the EULA.

[Galileo]

5 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

I guess you haven't read the other 11 pages of this thread.

WHY: The EULA is unacceptable. They claim the right to huge amounts of personal info to sell to anyone they see fit.   It doesn't matter what they are or are not downloading today, what matters is that they claim the right to take all this personal data.

WHAT: I'm boycotting 1.4 and all the DLC. I'm no longer advising people to buy KSP, (quite the opposite). I won't be helping anyone in this game anymore, no more advice, no more tutorials. I was planning a section of my personal website to be devoted to KSP. Screw that.

And I'm advising everyone else to #boycottKSP

Here, I'm a reasonable man, if TT is a respectable company that isn't stealing my personal information and selling it to the highest bidder, then simply say so in the EULA!

but right now their EULA says the opposite.

I don’t have the energy to deal with your paranoid ranting and largely uninformed post, but it’s obvious you have not read ANY other EULA and are clearly jumping onto this bandwagon full of uninformed, raging individuals who don’t understand legalese. Sounds very reasonable if you ask me. 

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

For the 4th time now:

It doesn't matter whether or not I can hide the data from them, what matters is them CLAIMING THE RIGHT TO IT. and forcing you to agree. 
(And all that data is on your hard drive someplace, and you're agreeing to let them dig for it.) 

Granted in the current build, so far today, we haven't caught them taking it, but that's immaterial. 

Change the EULA.

Exactly

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

4 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

We went through this with the AVC mod, didn't we? As I recall, Squad made them put in an explicit opt-in.

not an opt in 1.4, no way to opt out in 1.4. no choice at all.

[Galileo]

1 minute ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

Granted in the current build, so far today, we haven't caught them taking it, but that's immaterial. 

Change the EULA.

That’s unwarranted paranoia.

[Wilhelm Kerman]

1 minute ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

For the 4th time now:

It doesn't matter whether or not I can hide the data from them, what matters is them CLAIMING THE RIGHT TO IT. and forcing you to agree. 
(And all that data is on your hard drive someplace, and you're agreeing to let them dig for it.) 

Granted in the current build, so far today, we haven't caught them taking it, but that's immaterial. 

Change the EULA.

Agreed

#changeEULA

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Galileo said:

I don’t have the energy to deal with your paranoid ranting and largely uninformed post, but it’s obvious you have not read ANY other EULA and are clearly jumping onto this bandwagon full of uninformed, raging individuals who don’t understand legalese. Sounds very reasonable if you ask me. 

Ahh Yes the Straw man argument. "Your a dumby and I'm superior." The fact your refer to me as uninformed is a disgrace. I understand why Take Two might transmit data. The problem is what they claim the right to transmit. Your Zip Code is excessive.

2 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

not an opt in 1.4, no way to opt out in 1.4. no choice at all.

Accept or don't play. It even said that is the Privacy Policy and EULA.

[sarbian]

#Unsubscribe

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

1 minute ago, Galileo said:

I don’t have the energy to deal with your paranoid ranting and largely uninformed post, but it’s obvious you have not read ANY other EULA and are clearly jumping onto this bandwagon full of uninformed, raging individuals who don’t understand legalese. Sounds very reasonable if you ask me. 

WRONG. I understand legalize. I'm a software developer, I've WRITTEN EULAs. 

For a stand alone app, this EULA is unacceptable.

[Cheif Operations Director]

2 minutes ago, Galileo said:

That’s unwarranted paranoia.

"The Company may also share your personal information with third parties as described in this Privacy Policy. The Company may share your personal information to fulfill a request you have made, such as signing up for an email list or requesting customer support. In the event we offer services or promotions where your personal information is separately collected and used according to the privacy policy of a third party, we will inform you of that at the time of collection and you may elect not to participate in the service or promotion. In addition, we may share aggregate and other information regarding Online Service usage statistics and user demographics with third parties.

We may share your personal and other information with third parties in connection with an investigation of fraud, intellectual property infringements, or other activity that is illegal or may expose you or us to legal liability, including as required by law enforcement or other government officials. We also may share your personal and other information with third parties when we have reason to believe that a disclosure is necessary to address potential or actual injury or interference with our rights, property, operations, users, or others who may be harmed or may suffer loss or damage, or when we believe that disclosure is necessary to protect our rights, investigate, or enforce our policies, terms and conditions, combat fraud and/or comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on the Company. In addition, your personal and other information may be disclosed to a potential or actual successor or assign in connection with a proposed or consummated merger, acquisition, reorganization, bankruptcy, or other similar event involving all or a portion of the Company, the Company's customer information may be transferred to our successor or assign. "

[Kernel Kraken]

I get people like money, and money is required to live a life and make the BadS explosion simulator that we call KSP, but you'd think squad would have lawyers look at the EULA or read it themselves before being bought by T2, right?

[Cheif Operations Director]

3 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Straight from the Privacy Policy

"The Company may also share your personal information with third parties as described in this Privacy Policy. The Company may share your personal information to fulfill a request you have made, such as signing up for an email list or requesting customer support. In the event we offer services or promotions where your personal information is separately collected and used according to the privacy policy of a third party, we will inform you of that at the time of collection and you may elect not to participate in the service or promotion. In addition, we may share aggregate and other information regarding Online Service usage statistics and user demographics with third parties.

We may share your personal and other information with third parties in connection with an investigation of fraud, intellectual property infringements, or other activity that is illegal or may expose you or us to legal liability, including as required by law enforcement or other government officials. We also may share your personal and other information with third parties when we have reason to believe that a disclosure is necessary to address potential or actual injury or interference with our rights, property, operations, users, or others who may be harmed or may suffer loss or damage, or when we believe that disclosure is necessary to protect our rights, investigate, or enforce our policies, terms and conditions, combat fraud and/or comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on the Company. In addition, your personal and other information may be disclosed to a potential or actual successor or assign in connection with a proposed or consummated merger, acquisition, reorganization, bankruptcy, or other similar event involving all or a portion of the Company, the Company's customer information may be transferred to our successor or assign. "

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"To protect your personal information, the Company follows generally accepted industry standards and maintains reasonable safeguards to attempt to ensure the security, integrity, and privacy of the information you have provided. The Company has security measures in place designed to protect against the loss, misuse, and alteration of the information under our control. Personal information collected by the Company is stored in secure operating environments that are not available to the public (e.g., locked rooms). To prevent unauthorized electronic access to personal information, the Company maintains information collected online behind a firewall-protected server and uses SSL encryption for purchases made through our online store. However, no system can be 100% secure and human errors occur, so there is the possibility that there could be unauthorized access to your information. By using our services, you assume this risk."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"Your refusal to submit personal information may limit your ability to participate in some activities, such as sweepstakes or the use of certain Online Services. However, as described above, regardless of registration we may nonetheless publish gameplay boards and multiplayer match records that contain certain information as a result of your use of the products, such as your online ID, where they are essential components of the services we offer you and other users."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the EULA

"By installing and using the Software, you consent to the information collection and usage terms set forth in this section and Licensor's Privacy Policy, including (where applicable) (i) the transfer of any personal information and other information to Licensor, its affiliates, vendors, and business partners, and to certain other third parties, such as governmental authorities, in the U.S. and other countries located outside Europe or your home country, including countries that may have lower standards of privacy protection; (ii) the public display of your data, such as identification of your user-created content or displaying your scores, ranking, achievements, and other gameplay data on websites and other platforms; (iii) the sharing of your gameplay data with hardware manufacturers, platform hosts, and Licensor's marketing partners; and (iv) other uses and disclosures of your personal information or other information as specified in the above-referenced Privacy Policy, as amended from time to time. If you do not want your information used or shared in this manner, then you should not use the Software. "

back to top

back to top

 

From the Privacy Policy

"The types of information collected in connection with the activities listed above will vary depending on the activity. The information we collect may include personal information such as your first and/or last name, e-mail address, phone number, photo, mailing address, geolocation, or payment information. In addition, we may collect your age, gender, date of birth, zip code, hardware configuration, console ID, software products played, survey data, purchases, IP address and the systems you have played on. We may combine the information with your personal information and across other computers or devices that you may use. Prize winners may be required to provide additional information for prize fulfillment.

If you use, purchase, or register for an Online Service through a third-party service such as a gaming console's network service, an internet based gaming service, or a social network website, or request that we associate a Company account with a third-party service account, then limited user account personal information may be transferred to the Company as part of the registration process and we may be able to collect information about your use of the Online Services. For example, if you purchase virtual currency through a gaming console service, that gaming console service will provide us with information to effectuate the transaction, including the amount of virtual currency purchased and a means to identify your Online Service account.

When you use an application on a Social Networking Site ("SNS"), you allow us to access certain information from your profile from that SNS. The information you allow us to access is affected by the privacy settings you establish at the SNS. For example, our Facebook applications may access and store some or all of the following information, as allowed by you, the SNS and your preferences: your "basic information" you have shared with everyone on the SNS; your profile picture or its URL; your friends list, your user ID number, which is linked to publicly available information such as name and profile photo; or other information indicated as part of the "Request for Permission" prompt from the SNS. Your agreement to share this information takes place when you "accept" (or similar terms) one of our applications on an SNS. Once your information is received from an SNS, that information is stored and used by us in accordance with this Privacy Policy. The Company is not responsible for the terms, policies, disclosures or actions of any SNS.

When you use Facebook Connect, OpenID or another multisite ID to log in to an Online Service, those ID services will authenticate your identity and provide you the option to share certain personal information with us to pre-populate our sign up form. Depending on your account settings, multisite IDs may also provide other information to us. Please check the terms of those services before using them to log into an Online Service. When you play certain software products published by the Company, information about your gameplay may be collected and transmitted to the Company through network services or any other internet connection method used by the hardware on which you play such games (collectively and individually your "Internet Connection"). See "What Gameplay Information Does the Company Collect?" below for further details. "

Here is what we "Uniformed People have a problem with"

Edited March 9, 2018 by Cheif Operations Director

[TheCardinal]

11 minutes ago, sarbian said:

I ll comment: You are terrible at intercepting HTTPS traffic and you clearly don't know much about how this works.

So now let's see what is actually sent for a load up to the main menu

.... snip ....

So now you can complain if you want but stop staying it's sending all your most intimate info because that's BS.

 

You still don't understand the problem, do you? The only thing you've proven is that currently no sensitive data is sent. It doesn't prove that it can't or won't be done. If the data, which is currently being sent, is sufficient, then why the $#@ do they claim the right to take whatever they like? With this EULA T2 can do whatever it wants. Who is to say the the change in EULA isn't the precursor for sending personal data in a later version? The EULA allows that without even the obligation to notify the user, they've done so with this EULA and everybody has agreed to that, so they can change whatever they like.

The argument of getting the EULA in line with all their other EULAs is nonsense but let's just leave it at that.

 

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

1 minute ago, TheMadKraken2297 said:

I get people like money, and money is required to live a life and make the BadS explosion simulator that we call KSP, but you'd think squad would have lawyers look at the EULA or read it themselves before being bought by T2, right?

No. Not at all. The only thing that mattered in that negotiation was the number of zeros on the check. 
What TT does with KSP after they bought it is their business. (or, if I have my way, their total lack of business)

[Cheif Operations Director]

2 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

The information we collect may include personal information such as your first and/or last name, e-mail address, phone number, photo, mailing address, geolocation, or payment information. In addition, we may collect your age, gender, date of birth, zip code, hardware configuration, console ID, software products played, survey data, purchases, IP address and the systems you have played on. We may combine the information with your personal information and across other computers or devices that you may use. Prize winners may be required to provide additional information for prize fulfillment.

The biggest problem of us uniformed losers

[Galileo]

7 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

WRONG. I understand legalize. I'm a software developer, I've WRITTEN EULAs. 

For a stand alone app, this EULA is unacceptable.

Then you would know this is a general EULA and many games have something similar. Damn near verbatim. Have you ever read your agreement with your cell phone company? That is unacceptable. Or what about Amazon? Hell, what about google? 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Galileo

[Vanamonde]

Expressing your opinions about the subject is fine. Insulting each other is not. Please don't make the argument personal.