kerbal ftl [Min KSP 1.12.2] Blueshift: Kerbal FTL

[Angelo Kerman]

17 minutes ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

I'm running into the same pretzel sort of problem with jumpgates.  I have 1 at kerbin and 1 at duna.  I jump to duna and it's fine.  Jump back to kerbin and the jumpgate folds itself into a neat donut.

Also, I'm experiencing that if there are more than 2 jumpgates - then none work.

What kind of information do you need for this?

When you have more than 2 jumpgates, can you elaborate on what doesn't work? I still don't have a solution for why the stock docking ports fail. I think I may end up with some kind of method to build the ring in orbit. Something like: haul up the command segment, then haul up a support segment, press a button and the support segment is removed from your ship and it appears on the ring.

[Ooglak Kerman]

22 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

When you have more than 2 jumpgates, can you elaborate on what doesn't work? I still don't have a solution for why the stock docking ports fail. I think I may end up with some kind of method to build the ring in orbit. Something like: haul up the command segment, then haul up a support segment, press a button and the support segment is removed from your ship and it appears on the ring.

I created a jumpgate in the VAB and then saved it as Jool, Duna, and Kerbin gates.  Hyperedit'd them up to Kerbin orbit and then over to final destinations taking care to have them far enough out.

I can have a Kerbin gate and a Jool gate just fine.  Entering the Kerbin gate just warps me right off to Jool gate.  Coming back is fine except Kerbin gate is rendered an expensive  wad.
Similarly, I can have a Kerbin and Duna gate.  But, if I throw a 3rd gate into the mix, then Kerbin gate does absolutely nothing.  No dialog to choose destination.  No activity. 

I'll hyper out to Jool and Duna to test from those ends with 3 in the mix and report back.  Just for testing sake, I'll toss a 4th gate into the mix.

[Ooglak Kerman]

In other cool news, I had the chance to test the S3 Warp Ring with the S3 Heavy Sustainer Ring for a drive out to Nova Kirbani.  The ship was relatively light, but wooo  I hit interstellar space and it was 18,000 X C.  It took me under 2 minutes game time for the trip.  Navball was freaking out but we rolled right into the system and got into orbit around Orus.  Very pretty planet.

It seriously took me longer to exit the Kerbol SOI then the entire rest of the trip.  That is mind boggling.

It's handy to be able to go that fast interstellar, but it's really hard to manage once you're interplanetary.  Balancing ship mass and power will be a definite thing.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Ooglak Kerman
fix the warp speed

[Ooglak Kerman]

@Angel-125 I rebuilt a jump ring from scratch - laboriously.  To ensure no part clipping due to copying.  Then copied it 4 times for different planets.  Kerbin, Jool, Duna, Dres.

2 jumprings in the network works - though the initial ring at Kerbin gets wadded up.  Any more than 2 rings in the network and none work.  Completely inoperative and unresponsive.  In all cases, the Astria Porta Arbitrium is the root part. 

I'll try stuff if you can provide guidance though.  Perplexing!

[obnox twin]

Might sort out some jump networks to different star systems in the GU sytems pack aka a stellar oddessy but still need now how to make fusion pellets

[Angelo Kerman]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback and help trying to diagnose the jumpgate issues. I'm totally swamped with work right now but I'll try to look into this over the weekend. I'm still debating how to handle jumpgate construction without the use of docking ports since the docking ports are giving so much trouble.

Which reminds me, what happens if you connect a bunch of segments together without the docking ports? It's been awhile since I looked at the code, so I don't remember if it handles that.

1 hour ago, obnox twin said:

Might sort out some jump networks to different star systems in the GU sytems pack aka a stellar oddessy but still need now how to make fusion pellets

If you don't have Wild Blue Tools and don't have Far Future Technologies, then the stock ISRU makes fusion pellets.

[obnox twin]

47 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

If you don't have Wild Blue Tools and don't have Far Future Technologies, then the stock ISRU makes fusion pellets.

If have both Wild Blue Tools and Far Future Technologies

[Angelo Kerman]

24 minutes ago, obnox twin said:

If have both Wild Blue Tools and Far Future Technologies

You should be using FFT's deuterium then.

[obnox twin]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

You should be using FFT's deuterium then.

Me confused

[Ooglak Kerman]

On 2/16/2022 at 3:45 PM, Angel-125 said:

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback and help trying to diagnose the jumpgate issues. I'm totally swamped with work right now but I'll try to look into this over the weekend. I'm still debating how to handle jumpgate construction without the use of docking ports since the docking ports are giving so much trouble.

Which reminds me, what happens if you connect a bunch of segments together without the docking ports? It's been awhile since I looked at the code, so I don't remember if it handles that.

If you don't have Wild Blue Tools and don't have Far Future Technologies, then the stock ISRU makes fusion pellets.

@Angel-125 Ok.  I built warprings without docking ports and it all works perfectly now.  Very pretty start-up effect.  I set up 3 rings.  One at Kerbin, Jool, and Duna and bounced all around.  No issues with the rings wadding up.  For fun, I put one around Blalo in the Nova Kirbani system (GU) and it works perfect.

Looks like the docking ports were the issue there.
//major update

Huhhhhh!  Major noob mistake.  I had the docking ports backwards.  I was not paying close attention and went by how it looked in a video I found rather than where the detail "docking" portion was located.  Rings with docking ports do work correctly in a network.

However....  After jumping from a warpring with docking ports (positioned the correct way) and then coming back, the ring wads up into a cool origami folded thing.  It still work - mind you - but visually it's wadded up.  When you set the location, you need to take not of the position of the startup effect and fly through that.

Wierd!

Edited February 19, 2022 by Ooglak Kerman

[Ooglak Kerman]

On 2/16/2022 at 4:35 PM, obnox twin said:

If have both Wild Blue Tools and Far Future Technologies

My experience is that if you have either, then the stock ISRU will not make fusion pellets.

[obnox twin]

2 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

My experience is that if you have either, then the stock ISRU will not make fusion pellets.

Which part makes the fusion pellets?

[Ooglak Kerman]

1 hour ago, obnox twin said:

Which part makes the fusion pellets?

There is a WildBlue part in Utility - the MicroISRU.  It will require Ore, Water, Minerite, and Hexagen to create fusion pellets.  You will need to sort out the resource tree necessary to acquire those things.  In order to reconfigure the MicroISRU you will also need to have Equipment - which is made from Ore, PreciousMetals, and Minerite.   There are a number of storage things that can be configured to hold the various resources.  Look for the "Omni" dialog when you right click the part.  The graviolium tanks in particular are right useful.

It gets complex pretty fast - though not as heavy as KSP-IE.  These mods are not instant gratification by any stretch.  You're gonna have to spend a lot of time just learning  and will have to manage a whole supply chain.

[Ooglak Kerman]

@Angel-125 do you have some lore WRT graviolium?  If you're good, I'd like to make a stab at creating a graviolium resource definition set for the Nova Kirbani system.  It would be nice to make the distribution somewhat plausible.

 

[namreK haidebeJ]

What does this mean? 

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    ProtoVessel.CreateVesselNode (System.String vesselName, VesselType vesselType, Orbit orbit, System.Int32 rootPartIndex, ConfigNode[] partNodes, ConfigNode[] additionalNodes) (at <cd473063d3a2482f8d93d388d0c95035>:0)
    Blueshift.WBISpaceAnomaly.createAnomalyVessel (Blueshift.WBISpaceAnomaly anomaly) (at <1811807d04274f308eba738829cdb708>:0)
    Blueshift.WBISpaceAnomaly.createRandomAnomaly () (at <1811807d04274f308eba738829cdb708>:0)
    Blueshift.WBISpaceAnomaly.CreateNewInstancesIfNeeded (System.Collections.Generic.List`1[T] spaceAnomalies) (at <1811807d04274f308eba738829cdb708>:0)
    Blueshift.BlueshiftScenario.checkForNewAnomalies () (at <1811807d04274f308eba738829cdb708>:0)
    Blueshift.BlueshiftScenario+<handleAnomalyChecks>d__47.MoveNext () (at <1811807d04274f308eba738829cdb708>:0)
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <12e76cd50cc64cf19e759e981cb725af>:0)
    UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
    ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    Blueshift.BlueshiftScenario:FixedUpdate()

 

[kspnerd122]

Slower than Light is more fun, I did some math and found blueshift is SLOWER in real life than a slower than light ship, in general, I think FTL is overpowered, and normal propulsion should be used for ISVs, just my oppinion tho

[Ooglak Kerman]

4 hours ago, kspnerd122 said:

Slower than Light is more fun, I did some math and found blueshift is SLOWER in real life than a slower than light ship, in general, I think FTL is overpowered, and normal propulsion should be used for ISVs, just my oppinion tho

Isn't it just the awesome of this game that we can go at it in the manner that suits each of us.  I admire the heck out of the folks who can get wrapped around the very advanced mods/tech and engineer a trip interstellar.  Just too much for me - I've tried.

I'd like to know the numbers that got you to come to the conclusion that Blueshift is slower than STL.  I made the run from Kerbin to Nova Kirbani in 5 minutes in-game time.  If you've read Niven's short "At the Core" - it was like that.  I wanted to slow down. 

[namreK haidebeJ]

19 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

Isn't it just the awesome of this game that we can go at it in the manner that suits each of us.  I admire the heck out of the folks who can get wrapped around the very advanced mods/tech and engineer a trip interstellar.  Just too much for me - I've tried.

I'd like to know the numbers that got you to come to the conclusion that Blueshift is slower than STL.  I made the run from Kerbin to Nova Kirbani in 5 minutes in-game time.  If you've read Niven's short "At the Core" - it was like that.  I wanted to slow down. 

Isn't everything 1/10 of real scale? Wouldn't the Kerbal speed of light be slower? I accelerated to slightly slower than 1/10 real light speed and got to Nova Kirbani in a few Kerbal years. However, switching to Earth time and going just shy of light speed, I arrived way too early. It only took a few weeks or something like that. 

[kspnerd122]

The math I used @Ooglak Kerman

Speeds assumed 3x Lightspeed(Blueshift) 0.01 Lightspeed(STL Ship)

FTL ship is 300 times faster than the STL ship, thing is though, time warp must be taken into account

Max. Blueshift Time warp 4x = 1200x the 1x STL speed

Max STL Time warp without modification 10000, STL ship is like 6 times faster IRL if not faster, and STL provides much more of a challenge, so yeah, STL is indeed faster than FTL in real time that the PLAYER experiences

Edited February 23, 2022 by kspnerd122

[Ooglak Kerman]

That is a very interesting take on it.  I did not consider the time dilation factor.  This assumes though that with Blueshift that you are actually traveling FTL - rather than effectively FTL - and there is a distinction.

As it's understood, you can't actually travel FTL.  Just closer and closer to C and hence the time dilation.  With the warp drive (at least Alcubierre) you don't move through space - rather, you move space around you.  The Blueshift drive appears to do the same since you don't gain/lose velocity with the drive (except with the magic of auto-circularization).  And so, my ship can do 18,000C (effectively) and not experience time dilation since it is reactionless.

I fully agree that STL provides a much much greater challenge and at a younger time of my life I would have fully embraced it.  Now I'm old and a touch impatient and so FTL fits my personal preference.  Love jumping into my warpship "Oh Please Don't Explode" and popping out for a quick tour to admire Sarnus.

I may be way way off, but at least I think it sounds good. 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Ooglak Kerman

[Angelo Kerman]

On 2/19/2022 at 7:30 PM, Ooglak Kerman said:

@Angel-125 do you have some lore WRT graviolium?  If you're good, I'd like to make a stab at creating a graviolium resource definition set for the Nova Kirbani system.  It would be nice to make the distribution somewhat plausible.

 

Please feel free to create configs.  lore-wise, Graviolium is an exotic matter that helps explain why Kerbol’s planets are so small and dense. They have Graviolium in their cores that increases their gravity. 99.9% of the Graviolium in system exists in the planets’ cores but the rest can be found in asteroids. Magic boulders have high concentrations of the stuff.

You zap Graviolium with electric charge to bend spacetime, but Graviolium is also piezoelectric. In either case, you can affect an object’s gravitational mass but not its inertial mass when zapping it with electric charge.

Nobody really knows where Graviolium comes from, but the most popular theory is that it is the dried ichor of krakens. Given how much of the stuff must reside in the planetary cores, if the theory is correct then there must have been a lot of krakens back in the day…

Behind the scenes, Mass Effect’s Element Zero was a major source of inspiration. Originally I wanted to make Kerbal Mass Effect when I crafted Graviolium for Kerbal Flying Saucers but I could not override how the game calculated a vessel’s mass. So when I made my own spin, I based the name Graviolium on the game’s GRAVMAX Negative Gravioli Detector. The in-game description of the part suggests that positive and negative graviioli particles exist. With that precedent, I had the basis for how the flying saucers’ gravitic engines worked and how warp engines and wormholes work. And perhaps someday, how jump engines work too.

2 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

That is a very interesting take on it.  I did not consider the time dilation factor.  This assumes though that with Blueshift that you are actually traveling FTL - rather than effectively FTL - and there is a distinction.

As it's understood, you can't actually travel FTL.  Just closer and closer to C and hence the time dilation.  With the warp drive (at least Alcubierre) you don't move through space - rather, you move space around you.  The Blueshift drive appears to do the same since you don't gain/lose velocity with the drive (except with the magic of auto-circularization).  And so, my ship can do 18,000C (effectively) and not experience time dilation since it is reactionless.

I fully agree that STL provides a much much greater challenge and at a younger time of my life I would have fully embraced it.  Now I'm old and a touch impatient and so FTL fits my personal preference.  Love jumping into my warpship "Oh Please Don't Explode" and popping out for a quick tour to admire Sarnus.

I may be way way off, but at least I think it sounds good. 

 

This may be truer than you think. Blueshift works by moving the frame of reference of the game via vessel.SetPosition. Doing so doesn’t add force to the vessel to affect its velocity- though velocity relative to frame of reference does get updated. The problem occurs when you add in timewarp- the game really doesn’t like it when you update the frame of reference at high timewarp. Hence the interstellarWarpSpeedMultiplier found in Blueshift/Settings.cfg. Since it is configuable, you can change the multiplier to satisfy your level of patience.

Anyway, I have a new version of the jumpgate in the works that avoids the docking port issues. You still haul the control segment and support segments into orbit, but a button on the control segment will make a nearby support segment go poof and be “offscreen“ added to the ring.

[Ooglak Kerman]

@Angel-125 I'm probably going to have to tweak downward the WarpSpeedMultiplier.  I've run into issues where the game just can't seem to keep up with a 18,000C drive out to Nova Kirbani.  I'm running a i7-10700K with 64G RAM, a dedicated SSD on it's own bus for KSP,  and a Radeon RX570 so I really should have enough horsepower.  I wonder how the game is handling very rapid changes in vessel position.  If it's trying to update based on a bounding box, then yeah 18,000C might be just a tad problematic.  This mostly manifests when I've been bouncing my focus around a lot though.

Let me know if you want/need the jumpgate tested out.

Thanks for the Graviolium lore.  That is helpful.  I'm guessing that the orbital concentrations could be explained by the breakup of planets/asteroids early in Kerbol history.  Similarly the high concentrations found in asteroids.  I would guess that planets that have been bashed a lot by impacts would have a higher likelihood of it near the surface.  Incompatability with free oxygen would explain the lack in other places.

Lastly, have you had a chance to give thought to circularizing around a star instead of just planets with Blueshift?  I figure it should be doable given that Hyperedit will let you do just that.  (the not-programmer says)

[Ooglak Kerman]

On 2/22/2022 at 12:52 PM, namreK haidebeJ said:

Isn't everything 1/10 of real scale? Wouldn't the Kerbal speed of light be slower? I accelerated to slightly slower than 1/10 real light speed and got to Nova Kirbani in a few Kerbal years. However, switching to Earth time and going just shy of light speed, I arrived way too early. It only took a few weeks or something like that. 

Unless I'm missing something in the configs I've read through, a light-year is still a light-year in the Kerbalverse.  It's just that the distance between stuff in the game has been compressed.

Of course, the discrepancy between in-game time and real world time kind of mangles the whole thing.

Trying to think this through has made my brain hurt.  Do we have a handy astrophysicist who can come to the rescue?
"Help us Astrophysicist!  You're our only hope!"

Edited February 23, 2022 by Ooglak Kerman

[Ooglak Kerman]

Huhhhhh.,..  I'm sad to report that KWS-1 "Oh Please Don't Explode" has indeed exploded all across the surface of Vall.  Captain Valentina and 6 other kerbal crew who were on a training mission were lost.  Warped in too close to Vall, flamed out the warp drive and couldn't recover in time.  Sigh!

UPDATE:
About the same time that KWS-1 "Oh Please Don't Explode" departed on the training mission to the Jool system, KSP scientists and engineers completed development of technology to allow the upgrade of the tracking station to level-4.  This upgrade greatly increased the range of the tracking station and distress beacons have subsequently been detected in the Jool system indicating that at least some of the crew were able to get to life pods and eject before destruction of the ship.

KWS-2 "Are We There Yet" is nearly ready for launch and it appears that its maiden voyage will be a rescue mission.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Ooglak Kerman

[Angelo Kerman]

22 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

@Angel-125 I'm probably going to have to tweak downward the WarpSpeedMultiplier.  I've run into issues where the game just can't seem to keep up with a 18,000C drive out to Nova Kirbani.  I'm running a i7-10700K with 64G RAM, a dedicated SSD on it's own bus for KSP,  and a Radeon RX570 so I really should have enough horsepower.  I wonder how the game is handling very rapid changes in vessel position.  If it's trying to update based on a bounding box, then yeah 18,000C might be just a tad problematic.  This mostly manifests when I've been bouncing my focus around a lot though.

Let me know if you want/need the jumpgate tested out.

Thanks for the Graviolium lore.  That is helpful.  I'm guessing that the orbital concentrations could be explained by the breakup of planets/asteroids early in Kerbol history.  Similarly the high concentrations found in asteroids.  I would guess that planets that have been bashed a lot by impacts would have a higher likelihood of it near the surface.  Incompatability with free oxygen would explain the lack in other places.

Lastly, have you had a chance to give thought to circularizing around a star instead of just planets with Blueshift?  I figure it should be doable given that Hyperedit will let you do just that.  (the not-programmer says)

Stellar circularization is slated for next update, I'll be working on that after getting the jumpgate update done.

Good luck with the rescue mission.