Dr. Kerbal Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Some criticize that the developers of KSP2 shared the news too early. But I mean, how were they supposed to know that like the pandemic would happen. Or like Take Two taking over development of KSP2? Who would know that would happen?! Who knew all these challenges should delay KSP2 to 2022? No one. If the unexpected turns did not happen I think KSP2 would of released just fine in 2020 or 2021. But again, it not the devs fault that KSP2 is releasing 2022. I mean, who knew these turns would happen? So please. Don’t criticize the devs of faculty that they shared KSP2 too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kerbal Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 I’m also not surprised that KSP2 is delayed. Just getting a Minmus encounter is hard for me (butt hats like the only planet/moon I can’t seem to get too) but I mean, making space?! That’s way harder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I still think that regardless of the pandemic or studio name changes. Game of this scope, started in ~2017, announced in 2019, released in 2020? While super cool, it was nearly impossible to achieve. 2021 sounded reasonable for nominal conditions, 2022 sounds good with current situation, hopefully with some time to spare. 56 minutes ago, Dr. Kerbal said: Take Two taking over development of KSP2 Sorry? Look again at first trailer, the one from 2019. There is Private Division logo, which is a part of T2 (which, in reality, only pays money for the development). What you want to say is studio change. With roughly same crew, so by how much would that slow down the development? I say less than the pandemic, however, aside from obviously needed preparations for home office mode, which could take time, the development isn't slowed down too much. They still have their weekly Show n Tell thing, right? So no, the release in 2020 would be too quick, if the game was going to be as complex as it is now. It would be worse if the 2022 version dropped half baked, but I hope Nate and the rest of the crew know what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kerbal Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 All I’m just trying to say please don’t critique the developers to much. About telling the time when KSP2 news was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Their project - their rules. Only they can decide, when their project is ready. Just: 1. What will KSP-1 be by the end of 2022? Say, a couple of releases will finish the Great Revamp Voyage across the Kerbin system, and all/most-of parts still not revamped (chutes? ladders? legs?). What will be the further KSP-1 progress for the next 1.5 years till the declared KSP-2 release date? Won't there be two similar games? Won't Squad stop the KSP-1 development? 2. Wasn't the KSP-1 development similarly affected by the biodisaster? 3. I was patiently waiting for ~20 years for the next Elite. I never played the new Elite when it had been released because now I play KSP. There is always a probability that something new will distract you from the thing being awaited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKI Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I'm not one that "blames" companies/developers for bad games/software. As a software developer myself I understand that building a complex rocket simulator is more complex than actually playing the dang thing. Its not so much just the developers, its almost always management and those funding management to "get it done because I want my $ back now". Such is the nature of the software development life-cycle, and none of it you can really change to much without adverse effects. Sure developers can start "crunch time" and produce a shoddier game in a shorter time by working to much overtime. (Cyberpunk 2077, among other things) Sure management can simplify requirements and produce a simpler game in a shorter time, but then everyone seems like liars, or the game is a disappointment. (No Man Sky) Sure those funding the game can keep pushing it back, and or investing more money, but then the risk and stakes increase for everyone involved, potentially forcing other decisions later. (Command and Conquer Generals 2, which was eventually totally canceled) The fact KSP was pushed back means it will inherently cost more to develop due to it taking longer to get to market than originally planned. So whoever is ultimately "footing the bill" initially is already spending more than originally planned. That's gotta be made up from somewhere, and I personally hope that the game comes out as polished as possible at least to a point it can still inspire new players. Even if that means concessions must be made in the short term. (IE some features are a paid DLC released later, giving more time and funds) I'd rather spend more money over time for a good game with good DLC, than spend less money now for a game that doesn't grow without mods built using free labor. I'm patient enough, and the first game is good enough to hold me over until then. In the mean time, let the developers chug along with the game to make it as great as the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 As someone who works on a team that shipped a major game during pandemic, the impact wasn't all that high. There was definitely loss of efficiency, it was harder to test builds, and we straight up lost a couple of weeks in transition to working from home, and some companies lost closer to a month, but it still adds up to a few months, not years of delay. Educated guess, based on information released, is that the original plan for KSP2 was basically a face lift. A prettier version of KSP on newer version of Unity. Basically, a glorified DLC with some rework to make better use of updates the engine's been through and ensure smooth release on next gen of consoles. Interstellar and colonies are a pretty big addition, but the way it was presented initially, can still be looked at as a couple of DLC packs. This matches up against timeline, the early press releases, and the fact that the game was given to Star Theory - a tiny little studio with no experience in making large games. They were supposed to take KSP, update the rendering, add some new rocket parts for interstellar, and ability to build modules on planets, plus add another star system to explore - probably just the one. A reasonable scope and timeline for Star Theory. I'm guessing, this changed after response to E3 video in 2019. I don't think Take 2 / Private Division expected such favorable feedback to announcement. Game started growing in scope, probably with Nate Simpson as primary driving force with a node from someone at Private Division. Colonies becoming central element of gameplay progression and interstellar expansion, multiplayer that was just mused about became a core feature. Larger ships, more star systems to explore. Much, much bigger game. Somewhere in the process of negotiations for that scope expansion, Private Division and Star Theory came to an impasse, and Take 2 authorized creation of Intercept Games. Pandemic hit just as development was ramping up in a new studio. The combination of much larger scope, new developers, and the pandemic does sound like the right amount of factors to delay the game into 2022. I doubt Intercept went into what can be qualified as full scale production until late spring to early summer of 2020, and you aren't going to make a game like this in less than two years. And while it's not exactly starting from scratch, given the scope change, it might as well have been. The only part I'm a little upset about is that they kept trying to make it look like they're trying to salvage original timeline with some delays when it was clear that wasn't going to happen. Announcement that game would be delayed to 2022 should have come out sooner. Other than that, this seems about right for the size of the project they're working on. As for announcing early, I really do think Take 2 honestly expected to ship KSP2 much sooner as a much smaller game. And on the net, I'm glad we're getting a proper sequel rather than just a remake. So I'm happy to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kerbal Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 8 hours ago, The Aziz said: They still have their weekly Show n Tell thing, right? No they don’t. They haven’t posted that in weeks. Unless I’m missing them. If so, where are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcwaffles2003 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 54 minutes ago, Dr. Kerbal said: No they don’t. They haven’t posted that in weeks. Unless I’m missing them. If so, where are they? They have it internally, they made a video of the highlights theyve had of their internal show and tells week after week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kerbal Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, mcwaffles2003 said: They have it internally, they made a video of the highlights theyve had of their internal show and tells week after week Where? I can’t find it. Twitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcwaffles2003 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 41 minutes ago, Dr. Kerbal said: Where? I can’t find it. Twitch? They don't share it, its an internal meeting within the company. That video was highlights they were comfortable sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerikBalm Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 16 hours ago, Dr. Kerbal said: Just getting a Minmus encounter is hard for me (butt hats like the only planet/moon I can’t seem to get too) Wut? getting a minmus encounter is harder for you than getting to Moho, Dres, Gilly, poll, etc? I call BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kerbal Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 hours ago, KerikBalm said: Wut? getting a minmus encounter is harder for you than getting to Moho, Dres, Gilly, poll, etc? I call BS Yes. Last time I’ve been to Minmus it too 457 days. I had to get a Minmus encounter by entering interplanetary space. I set up a menuvers node where I had to leave Kerbin and enter in 400days Andy Ross paths with Minmus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Dr. Kerbal said: Yes. Last time I’ve been to Minmus it too 457 days. I had to get a Minmus encounter by entering interplanetary space. I set up a menuvers node where I had to leave Kerbin and enter in 400days Andy Ross paths with Minmus. You are probably not correcting for inclination change. Park in circular around Kerbin, set Minmus as target, look for ascending/descending nodes. Put a maneuvering node on one of them and adjust the normal/anti-normal until the new ascending/descending node reads 0 degrees - it might move to a different place, that doesn't matter. You can adjust retrograde at the same time to keep orbit circular, or you can fix it later. After you execute that node, encounter with Minmus should be very easy. You can make it trivial by using KSP subway map. Minmus is 930m/s from 80km parking orbit around Kerbin. So if you put your ship into an 80km circular orbit with same inclination as Minmus, just create a new maneuvering node, dial in 930m/s for prograde, and then slide that node around orbit until you see an encounter. You can't miss it. This does cost some extra delta-V for inclination change, of course, and there are ways to save that fuel by making sure you are doing correction late in transfer. That requires waiting until Minmus is in a good place for such transfer, however. Another pro strategy is timing your launch and going for 6 degree inclination orbit that closely matches that of Minmus right away. Both of these are harder to execute but will save you a lot of delta-V on inclination change. Minmus doesn't require you to be terribly fuel-efficient, though, so you might as well go for simple and fix your inclination in parking orbit as described above. There are other planets/moons you can't time nearly as easily and have eccentric orbits on top of odd inclination, so if you haven't had trouble with them, you were lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerikBalm Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 21 hours ago, Dr. Kerbal said: Yes. Last time I’ve been to Minmus it too 457 days. I had to get a Minmus encounter by entering interplanetary space. I set up a menuvers node where I had to leave Kerbin and enter in 400days Andy Ross paths with Minmus. If you can't get an encounter with Minmus because it has a small SOI and a 6 degree tilt, what about Dres with a proportionaetly smaller SOI (given its distance) and a 5 degree tilt? Moho with a small SOI (thanks to being so close to the sun), and a 12 degree tilt? Eeloo at 6.25 degrees? Tiny Bop at 15 degrees? There's just no way that Minmus is harder than these other bodies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 The Mun is like shooting a basketball foul shot, using a golf ball through a hula hoop. Minmus is kinda like a regular foul shot. Moho is like shooting a foul shot with a bowling ball through a shot glass; even if you hit it perfectly, it takes a huge amount of effort to get it to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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