Why is fuel so heavy?

[Bej Kerman]

On 3/31/2021 at 2:20 PM, kspacc said:

No, because they ARE underpowered and I am suggesting making them sensibly powered.

And if you believe it is arbitarry then it would not matter.

The ONLY sensible argument was that the planet is smaller so they seriously reduced efficiency, but seeing as the game is not limited to the small planet that still does not make total sense.

The fact is that in reality they have given us 200 units of fuel per ton, which seems to be the equivolent of only 200 Litres,  when in reality it is 1,250 Litres of aviation fuel per ton.

Dude, it doesn't matter. What are you arguing for here? That rockets be made stupidly efficient for the scales of the planets here? What is your end goal here?

[kspacc]

Wow.

This forum is clearly not about the game.

Anyone who has played this game from the beggining knows they have reduced the efficiency of the fuel/engines repeatedly.

The ion engines used to be the same ISP everywhere, you used to be able to make flyable planes with them.

And the jet engines used to be able to travel more than three times further w ith the same amount of fuel.

They have been reducing the efficiency more and more since first creating the game, and there is no possible debate about that.

There is no reason to be leaving any comments here if you are not interested in how the game works or in helping to improve it or you don't understand what Delta V is.

Please ONLY leave relevant informed comments on this post.

This post is about why they have reduced the efficiency, and looking for REALISTIC ways to measure and compare the fuel to real life aviation fuel.

Obviously it is not enough to just say it is 5kg per unit, as that has changed many times over the last few years.

[Bej Kerman]

[Snip]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:59 PM, kspacc said:

And the jet engines used to be able to travel more than three times further w ith the same amount of fuel.

[Snip]

This isn't a problem. If the game is too hard for you now, no-one's stopping you from modding the game so it's easy mode or just not playing at all. It's rocket science! I've been around since 0.18 and this really doesn't affect much.

On 4/2/2021 at 10:59 PM, kspacc said:

They have been reducing the efficiency more and more since first creating the game

Yes they have. It's not a problem.

On 4/2/2021 at 10:59 PM, kspacc said:

There is no reason to be leaving any comments here if you are not interested in how the game works or in helping to improve it or you don't understand what Delta V is.

I am interested in how the game works, I know what Delta V is, KSP rockets are overpowered if anything.

On 4/2/2021 at 10:59 PM, kspacc said:

This post is about why they have reduced the efficiency, and looking for REALISTIC ways to measure and compare the fuel to real life aviation fuel.

There's no point to be doing that. KSP jets are balanced fine as they are.

[Snip] You have yet to explain what's wrong with any of this.

Edited April 5, 2021 by James Kerman
Redacted by a moderator

[James Kerman]

Some content has been removed, please discuss the issue without getting personal.

[king of nowhere]

On 4/2/2021 at 4:59 PM, kspacc said:

Wow.

This forum is clearly not about the game.

Anyone who has played this game from the beggining knows they have reduced the efficiency of the fuel/engines repeatedly.

The ion engines used to be the same ISP everywhere, you used to be able to make flyable planes with them.

well, yes. they also changed the brick-o-sphere to a soup-o-sphere to a passably realistic aerodinamic model - though airplane enthusiasts will debate that.

they made Isp dependent on pressure, just like it is in reality. and no, in reality you cannot run an airplane with an ion engine.

and they also have fixed a few kraken drives, though a few others still work.

If that broke some of your favourite toys, get on with it. Accusing people of "not understanding what deltaV is" is not helping your case.

[dave1904]

On 4/2/2021 at 4:59 PM, kspacc said:

Wow.

This forum is clearly not about the game.

Anyone who has played this game from the beggining knows they have reduced the efficiency of the fuel/engines repeatedly.

The ion engines used to be the same ISP everywhere, you used to be able to make flyable planes with them.

And the jet engines used to be able to travel more than three times further w ith the same amount of fuel.

They have been reducing the efficiency more and more since first creating the game, and there is no possible debate about that.

There is no reason to be leaving any comments here if you are not interested in how the game works or in helping to improve it or you don't understand what Delta V is.

Please ONLY leave relevant informed comments on this post.

This post is about why they have reduced the efficiency, and looking for REALISTIC ways to measure and compare the fuel to real life aviation fuel.

Obviously it is not enough to just say it is 5kg per unit, as that has changed many times over the last few years.

Simple answer: Balance. You're arguments are self refuting. 

[Incarnation of Chaos]

On 4/2/2021 at 9:59 AM, kspacc said:

Wow.

This forum is clearly not about the game.

Anyone who has played this game from the beggining knows they have reduced the efficiency of the fuel/engines repeatedly.

The ion engines used to be the same ISP everywhere, you used to be able to make flyable planes with them.

And the jet engines used to be able to travel more than three times further w ith the same amount of fuel.

They have been reducing the efficiency more and more since first creating the game, and there is no possible debate about that.

There is no reason to be leaving any comments here if you are not interested in how the game works or in helping to improve it or you don't understand what Delta V is.

Please ONLY leave relevant informed comments on this post.

This post is about why they have reduced the efficiency, and looking for REALISTIC ways to measure and compare the fuel to real life aviation fuel.

Obviously it is not enough to just say it is 5kg per unit, as that has changed many times over the last few years.

The only one who has shown a lack of understanding here so far I'm afraid is you.

KSP uses a 1/10'th scale system, because it's a game. Therefore if the engines produced "Realistic" thrust with "Realistic" mass ratios, then the game's balance would be thrown out of wack.

Don't believe me? Go install S.M.U.R.F.F on a install and see how much more DV you'd get, since it also adjusts engines for higher TWR's. It's insane in a stock system until you're at 5M and beyond parts where those kind of TWR's are required.

The Rocket Equation is the rocket equation I'm also afraid, and it doesn't matter how you feel. The math works out the same way regardless.

You demand Realism. but ask for entirely unrealistic things as a result. Ion drives shouldn't work in atmosphere, except for the tiniest model planes (Which is what BARELY manages to fly on earth with Ion propulsion).

People aren't leaving "Uninformed" comments, they're not disinterested in improving the game. In fact it's quite the opposite, they're critiquing your arguments because guess what? That's how you determine what suggestions will be actual improvements, if you took every suggestion at face value KSP wouldn't even resemble the current game. And honestly, i find the tone you've taken rather remarkable.

If all of this was this much of an issue for you, then it wouldn't be too hard to roll some Module Manager patches to do it for you. And nobody would fault you for it, it's your game. Who cares how you play it? There's even an entire section of the forum where you could ask for help making them, but instead you came here and assumed you were right and everyone else who might disagree is wrong.

 

 

[Vanamonde]

Please don't let the discussions turn personal, guys. Discussing other people's ideas is fine, but discussing their characters only leads to hard feelings. 

[Dr. Kerbal]

On 3/28/2021 at 1:47 PM, kspacc said:

I have recently noticed that 300 units of liquid fuel weighs 1.5 tons.

So surely then it can't be in litres or gallons?

1 litre of aviation fuel weighs about 800g (0.8kg).

So 1 ton of fuel would be 1250 Litres.

Why is this?

And is there any chance of the weight being reduced in the game?

More water. Heavier the bucket gets.

And rocket fuel is dense.