Increase realism, not with rescale, but by tweaking engines perf with MM patches, but how ?

[kurgut]

Hi, as the title suggests, I'd like to keep stock system as is, but patching all engines to decrease their performance, and thus allow more IRL-like rockets stages (ei. with more than 1 stage to orbit...). On what should I focus for that, increasing all engines masses for instance?
If you have some idea about it, and also know some hint about how to achieve that with MM patches, help would be grealty apreciated !

Thanks !
Kurg

[Cavscout74]

Lowering Isp would work as well.  There was a tech tree mod that had an optional patch that did that, but I can't remember which one.   (Give me a minute....)

@kurgut Found it:  Simplex Tech Tree.  Apparently it modifies only the in-atmosphere Isp & thrust curve, leaving vacuum stats untouched. 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Cavscout74

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, kurgut said:

Hi, as the title suggests, I'd like to keep stock system as is, but patching all engines to decrease their performance, and thus allow more IRL-like rockets stages (ei. with more than 1 stage to orbit...). On what should I focus for that, increasing all engines masses for instance?
If you have some idea about it, and also know some hint about how to achieve that with MM patches, help would be grealty apreciated !

 

38 minutes ago, Cavscout74 said:

Lowering Isp would work as well.  There was a tech tree mod that had an optional patch that did that, but I can't remember which one.   (Give me a minute....)

@kurgut Found it:  Simplex Tech Tree.  Apparently it modifies only the in-atmosphere Isp & thrust curve, leaving vacuum stats untouched. 

 

Hi!  Yes, you can even just take the specific .cfg file out of the zip and place it anywhere in your gamedata folder.

Alternatively, make your own cfg using the following:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]]::Final
    {    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
            {     @atmosphereCurve
                    {    @key[1, ] *= 1
                        @key,1[1, ] *= .7
                        @key,2[1, ] *= .35
                    }
            }
    }

It really makes you need two stages to get you out of the atmosphere.  By the time you hit say 20kms, the atmosphere cure is pretty much close to the vacuum, but your first stage engines have only had 70% efficiency and thrust to get you there, and for most stock engines and tank mass that means it is much better to drop them.

 

Where I got this idea from, and all credit should go to here:

The difference with the SSRSS patch is that it changes all the keys to .7, meaning vacuum engines are also made less goodly too.

On a side note, can I recommend as well, SIMPLEXResources?  If you are into ISRU for your bases et al, this gives a slightly more complex feel.

This mod changes both the tank ratios and engine requirements from 1.1:0.9 Ox:LF to 3:1 which is more 'real', but doesn't change the ISP or thrust.  The main bonus for this is that you have three (or four) different ores to mine for.  You need NaturalOre, which is plentiful to produce Oxidizer.  And HydrateOre (or Saturate) to produce LiquidFuel.  HydrateOre is harder to come by, like polar regions on the Mun.  It is plentiful on Minmus, but Minmus has no NaturalOre.  Given that most rocket fuel mass is oxidizer (I think in real life?) This means that you could mine for only one resource and take the fuel with you.  Kind-a-like suggestions for real life missions, taking hydrogen with us to produce rocket fuel elsewhere.

[kurgut]

@Cavscout74 and @theJesuit thanks both for your answers, that's exactly what I needed !
And yes, TheJesuit, SimplexRessources would be good by even increasing the fuel mass the a more IRL-like model (RP1/lox is something like 1/2.5 IIRC). For the ISRU stuff I uses Kerbalism anyway, but I take note of it.

Thanks again

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, kurgut said:

@Cavscout74 and @theJesuit thanks both for your answers, that's exactly what I needed !
And yes, TheJesuit, SimplexRessources would be good by even increasing the fuel mass the a more IRL-like model (RP1/lox is something like 1/2.5 IIRC). For the ISRU stuff I uses Kerbalism anyway, but I take note of it.

Thanks again

You're welcome.  The ratio was suggested by riocrokite in his mod SAFIRE. 

So it was a basic rounding concept. It turns out in my latest musing in extending Simplex Resources to support cryo engines that there is a lovely symmetry from 3:1 to 1:3. 

Also,  with Kerbalism Simplex the ISRU is much more stockalike.

[Cavscout74]

15 hours ago, kurgut said:

@Cavscout74 and @theJesuit thanks both for your answers, that's exactly what I needed !
And yes, TheJesuit, SimplexRessources would be good by even increasing the fuel mass the a more IRL-like model (RP1/lox is something like 1/2.5 IIRC). For the ISRU stuff I uses Kerbalism anyway, but I take note of it.

Thanks again

Glad I could help

[Jimbodiah]

SSRSS was really awesome: do the RSS bit but not take ages to get anywhere. Also really detailed surfaces due to using the same textures on 1/10 the size spheres

Too bad it was abandoned and never picked up by anyone.

I wish KSP had a setting to use kerbol or a 1/10 rss version out of the box.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Jimbodiah