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The Skyhawk Science System - a new, realistic tech tree for KSP, now including Kerbalism support - [v1.1.1 - "For Science!" 8/11/22)]

CessnaSkyhawk

By CessnaSkyhawk
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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CAPFlyer

CAPFlyer

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What's the best way to add that patch?  to the built ModuleManager cache or as a separate patch?  I understand direct-editing of existing patches, but I'm still not 100% sure on doing "new" patches or additional patches that are their own files.

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610yesnolovely

610yesnolovely

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1 hour ago, CAPFlyer said:

What's the best way to add that patch?  to the built ModuleManager cache or as a separate patch?  I understand direct-editing of existing patches, but I'm still not 100% sure on doing "new" patches or additional patches that are their own files.

Standard practice is to have a personal patch directory under GameData, say "CAPFlyerPatches", and then put each snippet in a suitably named file like "Skyhawk-Fixes.cfg". I'd recommend having this stored also in Dropbox, or even better in GitHub so you never lose it (and can make changes).

Don't edit the ModuleManager.ConfigCache directly, but that is useful to read it to see what the game sees after ModuleManager has finished it's work. Also Logs/ModuleManager contains more information about issues and what MM has done.

Often people have their patches published on GitHub, a somewhat well known example: https://github.com/Wallum/KSP-Patches

For Skyhawk in particular this one has been mentioned (and I find useful): https://github.com/Aelfhe1m/PatchRepository

For more information on what all that MM cfg does, check the forum posting (and changelog):

The wiki: https://github.com/sarbian/ModuleManager/wiki

And also unofficial help thread: 

Basically all the "xxx.cfg" files found under GameData are read by ModuleManager, and they are a sort of configuration programming language which modifies the game's part description language which describes all the parts and modules and other configuration. This is why you'll see "xxx.cfg" files supplied with mods, they're using ModuleManager to provide definitions and often to modify stock or other mods to work with that mod. Your personal patches are almost no different (in fact there are some mods which are just a .cfg file!). In fact MM .cfg files are a super-set of stock .cfg files (check out the KSP wiki for parts, each part has a link to the stock .cfg file for that part).

A "@PART[mk1pod]" line for example is equivalent to saying "edit the PART with name = mk1pod and ...", then there's stuff in "{" ... "}" which is what is modified/changed in the stock mk1pod. There's a lot of syntax about when it applies changes (BEFORE, AFTER, FIRST, LAST, FINAL) and if it should do it (NEEDS, HAS). Writing MM can be a bit tricky, and I usually get it wrong. Best way is to have a seperate copy of KSP for testing that only has the mod(s) you're trying to fix and then staring at ModuleManager.ConfigCache, logs and wikis...

Apologies if you knew some or all of this, but this might be useful info, esp. for people who are not familiar (as I was a few years ago).

Edited by 610yesnolovely
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Gordon Dry

Gordon Dry

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Spoiler

After fiddling away issues I still got this remaining: 

[LOG 20:38:10.715] Applying update SkyhawkScienceSystem/Patches/Hypergolics/Hypergolics/@PART[*]:HAS[#SSS_HypergolicTank[True]]:AFTER[zzzSkyhawkScienceSystem] to ReStockPlus/Parts/Engine/125/restock-engine-pug.cfg/PART[restock-engine-125-pug]
[ERR 20:38:10.715] Error - Cannot parse variable search when replacing (%) key lfo_volume = #$RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]/maxAmount$
[ERR 20:38:10.716] Error - Cannot parse variable search when replacing (%) key ox_volume = #$RESOURCE[Oxidizer]/maxAmount$
[WRN 20:38:10.716] Cannot find key lfo_volume in PART
[ERR 20:38:10.716] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key amount = #$/lfo_volume$
[WRN 20:38:10.716] Cannot find key lfo_volume in PART
[ERR 20:38:10.716] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key maxAmount = #$/lfo_volume$
[WRN 20:38:10.716] Cannot find key ox_volume in PART
[ERR 20:38:10.716] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key amount = #$/ox_volume$
[WRN 20:38:10.716] Cannot find key ox_volume in PART
[ERR 20:38:10.716] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key maxAmount = #$/ox_volume$

It was already mentioned here:

Something seems to remove the resources before that patch occurs.
It seems it's CryoTanks\Patches\CryoTanksFuelTankSwitcher.cfg

Edit:

just found

Yep, that was the culprit.

 

Edited by Gordon Dry
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CAPFlyer

CAPFlyer

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22 hours ago, 610yesnolovely said:

Standard practice is to have a personal patch directory under GameData, say "CAPFlyerPatches", and then put each snippet in a suitably named file like "Skyhawk-Fixes.cfg". I'd recommend having this stored also in Dropbox, or even better in GitHub so you never lose it (and can make changes).

<sic>

Apologies if you knew some or all of this, but this might be useful info, esp. for people who are not familiar (as I was a few years ago).

Thanks for this.  I knew some of it, but I agree it's nice for people not familiar or, as in my case, just so out of practice with it that I'd forgotten most of it (and your post made me go "Doh!" several times. :) )

Now to play around some more before KSP2 comes out and we all abandon everything for that and let the modders do their thing to bring all this awesome stuff into the new program. :)

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610yesnolovely

610yesnolovely

Posted
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12 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

It it normal that I get a stunning 16 science points just for the first sounding rocket that reached 40 km and crashed down without a chute?
Am I too used to RP-1 (and after the last hiatus) have no feeling for what's normal anymore?

Depends on the mods installed, on a default minimum install I think I used the Eaglet and 0.625m stuff in start and got at least 30 in the first launch. It's incredibly hard to balance a TechTree without knowing what could be installed.

Personally I improved the starting experience by:

  • Tuned the RDNode to 5, 10, 20, 40 (from 1, 5, 12, 35) - mainly because I have a ton more mods, science mods included and want to spend a bit longer in the early phase. 
  • Installed CNAR and Taerobee mods and made sure some appear in Start node. 
  • Moved the 0.625m rockets and fuel into either Tier 1 or 2.
  • Installed KCT and Krash to slow down building things.
  • Jumped in the deep end with Skyhawk Kerbalism - this really slows the science down.
  • I also installed History of Spaceflight: Pocket Edition - as that helps me remember what early rockets to build, seems to work well so far.

First launch got me just over 5, enough to unlock one node in Tier 1. Took me about 4 or 5 launches of Sounding Rockets, at least to get all of Tier 1 unlocked, and onto Tier 2 Redstone style rockets.

(Also note: I'm using KSRSS Reborn which is 2.7x scale, but I think you're using JSNQ which is the same scale. Using stock size would again, make things to easy, and SSS is probably best on 2.5 or 2.7 scale).

Edited by 610yesnolovely
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Gordon Dry

Gordon Dry

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@610yesnolovelyI'm also on SkyhawkKerbalism, JNSQ, KCT and History of Spaceflight: Pocket Edition plus Bureaucracy, OhScrap! and ScrapYard (and all reliability turned off in Kerbalism as it's already half-off by Skyhawk) - this is the reason I asked as I wondered why I get so much science points for the first launch. I did not fiddle around the tech tree as I assume it should be okay as is in this state of SSS.

Edited by Gordon Dry
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RKunze

RKunze

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3 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

I'm also on SkyhawkKerbalism, JNSQ, KCT and History of Spaceflight: Pocket Edition plus Bureaucracy, OhScrap! and ScrapYard

Pretty much the same here, just with LRTF instead of OhScrap! for parts failure, Strategia and Principia, and without History of Spaceflight (I have some other contract packs though, but I'm away from my KSP laptop and don't remember all of them out of hand).

I also got a lot of science for the first couple of flights well, think I unlocked the first two levels of the tree just with suborbital flights. It did get a bit slower now that I'm in orbit, though - I'll probably have to do some long-running Kerbalism stuff in Kerbin orbit to build up to something that can get Kerbals to Orbit and/or probes to Mun and Minmus (probably not in that order though, I'd rather lose a Mun probe to an untested rocket instead of a member of the KSA).

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610yesnolovely

610yesnolovely

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1 hour ago, Gordon Dry said:

I guess I should disable  EngineIgnitor's "ullage simulation"  as with Bluedog_DB and Skyhawk I just got no proper ullage parts in early career and waste a lot of rockets.

I thought about EngineIgnitor, but that seemed like too far in realism. For very early ullage, my only thoughts are either to avoid it by using solid rockets, pre-igniting the engine as the previous is burning, WAC Corporal does that for example (yeah explosions may happen), and unlock the control tech nodes as fast as possible to get any RCS modules or sepatron like parts.

I prefer to simulate ullage without it actually being present :-)

As to "wasting a lot of rockets", I've found that happens a lot in early career (I'm using KCT, Krash and no revert/saves), but I still manage to get enough science and money from contracts to move on. In fact some of History of Spaceflight's contracts require you to explode or crash. That has led me to add range safety (TAC Self Destruct with a patch to add that to all probe cores) and things like Bob's Panic Box and PEBKAC LES stuff. Makes things a bit more tense, especially with Kerbals on board.

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CessnaSkyhawk

CessnaSkyhawk

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Yeah - Engine Ignitor should be feasible, most early rockets have either solid ullage motors or rcs for ullage, both of which should be available at the same time as the respective engines. As for the balance concerns and glitches with regards to sounding rockets, I'm planning on investigating them soon. Frankly, I've never actually done a playthrough of KSP with SSS and SK as I've been too burnt out from the game to try it once I finished the mods up. I'm finally looking at setting a playthrough up (once I've decided on a planet pack - leaning towards KSRSS reborn but am worried about its stability) so I can finally get an idea what works and what doesn't.

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610yesnolovely

610yesnolovely

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2 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Yeah - Engine Ignitor should be feasible, most early rockets have either solid ullage motors or rcs for ullage, both of which should be available at the same time as the respective engines. As for the balance concerns and glitches with regards to sounding rockets, I'm planning on investigating them soon. Frankly, I've never actually done a playthrough of KSP with SSS and SK as I've been too burnt out from the game to try it once I finished the mods up. I'm finally looking at setting a playthrough up (once I've decided on a planet pack - leaning towards KSRSS reborn but am worried about its stability) so I can finally get an idea what works and what doesn't.

I'm playing KSRSS Reborn and still early on, thank you so much for the huge amount of work in SSS and SK (using both). KSRSS Reborn is pretty stable (at about 150+ mods), though resource loading of the huge textures definitely cause stalls (60km height, night/day cycle, tracking/map zooming) that can last a second or two. The 64K textures really are quite big - previously on KSRSS 0.7 I'd use 4K for game play and 64K for piccies. That option will come when reborn nears completion.

For starting off the balance really seems to depend a huge amount on what mods you have installed, it'll be a pain to balance. Once you're at tier 5 though I think it's much less important. My random thought: three settings (selectable in a .cfg) for early tech node costs: "easy", "medium", "hard". I suspect what you have currently is probably "medium" to "easy" (with lots of mods) with the costs at 1, 5, 12, 35, 70. I'm using 5, 10, 20, 40, 70 with Kerbalism, KCT and some early rockets (CNAR, Taerobee) and that feels somewhere between "medium" and "hard".

I also reconfigured the start node, cloned some parts to allow only building a WAC Corporal (0.15625m scale sounding rocket) at the start (ie. moving a lot of stock/Eaglet to Tier 1), but that would mean requiring CNAR and Taerobee.

unknown.png?width=1848&height=1040

The CNAR's CapellaEngine1 was "fixed" (was 10x too heavy, and needed more thrust/fuel). Added a Tiny Tim (rescaled from Taerobee), added rescaled decoupler, added some alternative nosecones, added rescaled parachute and tiny comm option (Commutron 4S). This rocket is very like to veer off wildly, so I also patched TAC SelfDestruct into all probe cores so Abort could do "Self Destruct". I found that useful once as the second launch went straight towards the VAB. Angling the fins help to get spin stabilization.

Progress for me has been unlocking one node every launch or two, and seems much slower (that's probably KCT too tho): I've built a WAC Corporal, Bumper, Redstone, Jupiter-C and now saving up for Juno I / Explorer - so half way unlocking Tier 2. This is mostly driving by History of Spaceflight: Pocket Edition, and it's probably been about 20 launches and 10 hours of gameplay so far, and fun (for me).

Edited by 610yesnolovely
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Gordon Dry

Gordon Dry

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Could it be that there is a typo in GameData\SkyhawkScienceSystem\ModSupport\B9ProceduralWings\B9ProceduralWings.cfg ?
Because having to get to tier 11 to get procedural wings sounds wrong.
It's like the staff of the aircraft hangar has to buy all wings from 3rd party companies for decades before they're allowed to build their own wings.

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CessnaSkyhawk

CessnaSkyhawk

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12 minutes ago, Gordon Dry said:

Could it be that there is a typo in GameData\SkyhawkScienceSystem\ModSupport\B9ProceduralWings\B9ProceduralWings.cfg ?
Because having to get to tier 11 to get procedural wings sounds wrong.
It's like the staff of the aircraft hangar has to buy all wings from 3rd party companies for decades before they're allowed to build their own wings.

Yeah that seems pretty high to me as well - that originally came from a PR, so I assume the contributor had a reason for making it so lategame but regardless, I moved them back to the first aviation tier so they are actually useful.

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septemberWaves

septemberWaves

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Does this also properly configure Kerbalism resource amounts in crewed parts? One of the biggest things that makes Kerbalism difficult to use outside of RO is that most crew parts have procedurally-generated life support capacities that make no sense, and which require doing silly things like clipping extra life support containers inside an Apollo capsule just to be able to complete a lunar mission.

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CessnaSkyhawk

CessnaSkyhawk

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On 11/14/2022 at 4:40 AM, septemberWaves said:

Does this also properly configure Kerbalism resource amounts in crewed parts? One of the biggest things that makes Kerbalism difficult to use outside of RO is that most crew parts have procedurally-generated life support capacities that make no sense, and which require doing silly things like clipping extra life support containers inside an Apollo capsule just to be able to complete a lunar mission.

Not exactly - it still uses the kerbalism system, but I tried to make it a tad more reasonable. I've got some ideas for modifying it in that regards (eg give capsules set amounts of resources based on their usage length) but I wasn't sure if it was better to do that or leave it up to players. I could see about throwing something together for the next update, but no guarantees

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septemberWaves

septemberWaves

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15 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Not exactly - it still uses the kerbalism system, but I tried to make it a tad more reasonable. I've got some ideas for modifying it in that regards (eg give capsules set amounts of resources based on their usage length) but I wasn't sure if it was better to do that or leave it up to players. I could see about throwing something together for the next update, but no guarantees

It's the set amounts of resources that I'm concerned about, since the default settings are usually wrong for what a part is intended to represent. If I make some custom configs I can send them to you if you like (though I'm not sure if I will end up making custom configs within any reasonable timeframe).

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septemberWaves

septemberWaves

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RDogXp3.png

There is no hypergolic tank switch for the Able tank, despite the fact that the Able engine requires hypergolic fuel. Is there a fix for this?

EDIT: It was simply not unlocked yet due to not having purchased the upgrade that allows use of hypergolics. Anyone else who encounters a similar issue should check whether that is the issue.

Edited by septemberWaves
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610yesnolovely

610yesnolovely

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4 hours ago, septemberWaves said:

Same error here. It doesn't seem to be gamebreaking, but I could be mistaken.

I posted some MM fixes for these warnings a few pages back, plus some other fixes/improvements for other things. I think also that some BDB changes/updates have been added to GitHub head revision. Might be worth staying up to date if you're feeling adventurous.

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septemberWaves

septemberWaves

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1 hour ago, 610yesnolovely said:

I posted some MM fixes for these warnings a few pages back, plus some other fixes/improvements for other things. I think also that some BDB changes/updates have been added to GitHub head revision. Might be worth staying up to date if you're feeling adventurous.

nzT9k5I.png

The "bluedog_SAS1" error seems to be gone after installing your fix, but this one is still here.

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