Colonies: Will there be limits? If not, what will you do?

[GoldForest]

I've been pondering for a little bit about colonies. Will there be limits on the size of them? Or could be theoretically build as high or wide as we want them to? 

I imagine the only limitations, if there are any, will be the good ole wobble joint and materials. Additionally, life support if life support is added. 

If we're able to build as crazy as we want... Space Elevator from Duna's surface anyone? Also, who needs an orbital construction dock when you can just build a space elevator, put a VAB and Launchpad at the top, then launch from that? Smh, Orbital Construction is obsolete now. /joking

[Rutabaga22]

I could definitely see them adding a Vertical limit, I'd say a horizontal limit wouldn't make sense. If players have the resources and life support to build a planet wide super colony, let 'em! I think a vertical limit would make sense because they need to encourage people building OABs instead of launch pad at the edge of the atmosphere. The vertical limit should be above "Sea level" so that you can't exploit it to make a sapce elevator. I think the same should apply to orbital colonies. Who cares if someone builds a "Dyson Sphere" around a planet, it won't affect gameplay for anyone but themselves. In multiplyer I think colonies should have a lot more of a limit so that one really good player can't make Duna their version of Coruscant. 

[The Aziz]

Physics. The scaffolding can handle only so much weight.

There was a comment, I believe from Nate, saying that he wants to see who can build the furthest from a cliff edge. Which means the joints between modules can snap if they aren't supported.

[Luriss]

45 minutes ago, Rutabaga22 said:

In multiplyer I think colonies should have a lot more of a limit so that one really good player can't make Duna their version of Coruscant. 

In all honesty I disagree. This might make sense in some sort of public lobby but if you're just playing with friends, turning Duna into Coruscant might be the goal. KSP is fundamentally a sandbox game, why limit it?

 

2 hours ago, GoldForest said:

If we're able to build as crazy as we want... Space Elevator from Duna's surface anyone? Also, who needs an orbital construction dock when you can just build a space elevator, put a VAB and Launchpad at the top, then launch from that? Smh, Orbital Construction is obsolete now. /joking

I really want to see this sort of stuff actually. Not necessarily cheesy, infinitely tall trusses or something but definitely stuff like Space Elevators, Launch loops, and O'Neill Cylinders. I'd imagine megastructures like these will probably be added by mods however.

Furthermore, a late game space elevator/launch loop upgrade for the KSC perhaps?

Edited November 6, 2022 by Luriss

[GoldForest]

15 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Physics. The scaffolding can handle only so much weight.

There was a comment, I believe from Nate, saying that he wants to see who can build the furthest from a cliff edge. Which means the joints between modules can snap if they aren't supported.

@Rutabaga22 I think this should be the only limiting factor. No arbitrary limit because reasons, at least in single player. MO could get a limit to make fps and such more manageable for everyone.

Addressing the physics limit tho, this can easily be overcome. Build out in a pyramid shape, or add tons of struts. At higher heights, engines or even RCS could be used to balance the tower and keep it stable.

10 minutes ago, Luriss said:

In all honesty I disagree. This might make sense in some sort of public lobby but if you're just playing with friends, turning Duna into Coruscant might be the goal. KSP is fundamentally a sandbox game, why limit it?

 

I really want to see this sort of stuff actually. Not necessarily cheesy, infinitely tall trusses or something but definitely stuff like Space Elevators, Launch loops, and O'Neill Cylinders. I'd imagine megastructures like these will probably be added by mods however.

Furthermore, a late game space elevator/launch loop upgrade for the KSC perhaps?

It would have to be mods, as iirc, Nate has said they are not looking into space elevators or space bridges. I think he has said that we can build a structure out as horizontal as we want, so unofficially, we could build a bridge that stretches out to space, but there's no dedicated parts for it. 

Space elevators and spin launch loops will be modding territory no doubt. Though, I don't doubt there are some Ace Combat 7 fans in the forums who will make a Kerbal Konstruct version of their space elevator and release it as a mod.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

It’ll depend on what you can use the colonies for.  I’m really looking forward to interstellar.  I expect my first play through is going to be all about quickly getting the tech and the infrastructure so that I can launch to the new systems, and once I get there, building the infrastructure so that I can give them a nice comfy thorough exploring. 

I expect I’ll spend more time building more and larger bases in the new systems than I will in the Kerbol system.  I’ve got 3K hours plus into Kerbol.  The new horizons are calling.

(Then again, the Mün, Duna, and Laythe really deserve more colonization than KSP1 permits and with the new graphics the colonies are likely to be very easy on the eyes indeed…)

[Pthigrivi]

As an architect I am jacked for this to be part of the game. Its interesting they’re holding resources back till a later update because I imagine the biggest limitation will be raw materials. When colonies are first introduced we’ll be able to go hog wild. What interests me most at the moment is the kit of parts. We’ve seen several very old renderings and the composition of the parts doesn’t seem altogether congruous, from the collection of pill-shaped hab modules and domes to the stacks of variably shaped building-mass pieces. I quite like the more modular look that we saw in the trailer and some renderings, but the blocky stuff looks a little like the facade of a hospital? I’ll be very interested to see how the aesthetics of that have improved over the last couple years. Out of the gate Id love to be able to control how its fenestrated, to right click on exterior wall panels and swap out for solid panels or windows or other variants.  And while I would like to engineer these larger masses it kind of begs the question: is this habitation space? Like does it have a function within the game? If you increase the volume does it increase the number of kerbals you can house?

And then there are a bunch of structural questions. We’ve seen these grids of piers holding everything up but are there limits to how tall they can be as components? Are they procedural? Can you lay them out in a custom way or is it always on-grid? Are there other truss members we can use and how do they attach? Can I make a huge dome and then build things inside of it? Another thing that would be cool would be exterior gangways and ladders with safety cages so you could build bridges and climb around them. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[GoldForest]

9 minutes ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

It’ll depend on what you can use the colonies for.  I’m really looking forward to interstellar.  I expect my first play through is going to be all about quickly getting the tech and the infrastructure so that I can launch to the new systems, and once I get there, building the infrastructure so that I can give them a nice comfy thorough exploring. 

I expect I’ll spend more time building more and larger bases in the new systems than I will in the Kerbol system.  I’ve got 3K hours plus into Kerbol.  The new horizons are calling.

(Then again, the Mün, Duna, and Laythe really deserve more colonization than KSP1 permits and with the new graphics the colonies are likely to be very easy on the eyes indeed…)

It would be much easier to launch an interstellar mission from around Jool/Laythe anyway, considering that Daedalus will probably use H2 or H3 as fuel. So a colony on/around Laythe/Jool will be necessary. 

Oh, I wonder if we could do floating colonies on Jool. They've shown that we can dive into Jool with the Jool flyby mission.

[Pthigrivi]

Oh and another big one: are there guy wires, and can we use them to stay tall towers and build crazy tensegrity structures?

Edited November 6, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[jastrone]

the colonies we have seen have been quite small and it seems that there arent a lot of reason too buid a big one. and if you want then sure, go ahead, you just have to gather an insane amount of materials to do so. and i dont think you will reasonably be able to build a colony large enough to grief a multipalyer server and if you do it will probably be more impressive than annoying

[t_v]

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

Oh and another big one: are there guy wires, and can we use them to stay tall towers and build crazy tensegrity structures?

What a strange conceptual structure. Somehow though, I don't see any bottlenecks, even with large groups of people. I know relatively nothing about architecture or building design though (which I guess will be a limit on the size of my colonies).

[Pthigrivi]

35 minutes ago, t_v said:

What a strange conceptual structure. Somehow though, I don't see any bottlenecks, even with large groups of people. I know relatively nothing about architecture or building design though (which I guess will be a limit on the size of my colonies).

This is going to be the most fun part for me. They have said there's going to be basic statics and physics on these things which means if you go really tall and spindly it's probably going to get some weird wobbly behavior. Having the ability to use cable stays like a radio tower would open up a lot more design space than purely compressive systems. 

The building above is called the Blur Building by Diller + Scofidio for the 2002 world expo in switzerland. They mounted thousands of high pressure nozzles on it to create a big cloud around it floating over the lake. Its bonkers. I don't think we'll be able to do anything like that, but the structure is a great demonstration of how useful cables could be. I think they could be attached the same way struts are in KSP1? Just given a longer reach and zero compressive strength?  

Edited November 6, 2022 by Pthigrivi