Some statistics from Steam DB and discussion about the future of the game

[Bej Kerman]

10 hours ago, J.Random said:

Don't expect me not to point out the obvious flaws of the UI design after you praise the (nonexistent, imo) genius of it (another point, btw: "brilliant" idea to put mostly useless Training Center right next to the Tracking Station in the menu. Won't cause a single misclick, I'm sure). Don't try to sell me (or anybody else) the "accurate maneuver nodes" lie (literal lie, come on). "Early days" worked and still works for certain title which scams its customers by promising a release "right around the corner" every year for the past 10 years, while selling them insanely priced virtual "assets", often nonexistent even in virtual sense. Since KSP2 isn't planned to have such source of income, using the same tactic will kill it. I am and will be aggressively against any "early days", "tier 0", "you don't understand game development", "the had to build a studio", "never been done before" and similar arguments.

Note how you refuse to elaborate on any of these points. Empty winging.

10 hours ago, J.Random said:

Don't try to sell me (or anybody else) the "accurate maneuver nodes" lie (literal lie, come on)

This is just egregious. In most of my tests, maneuvers have delivered me to exactly the orbit I told them to put me on, with a minority suffering from bugs. If you could even just bother to tell me where the lie is, rather than winging about something that's likely either a bug or you doing something wrong with them...

[tstein]

16 hours ago, K^2 said:

It's in good shape for an alpha build. There are a few problems I'm surprised made it this far, like the fuel management performance and world origin relocation bugs, but for the most part, this is pretty much what I expected. A few graphics glitches, some unexpected performance bottlenecks, and frequent visits from the Kraken, but also many QoL improvements, beautiful environments, and overall playable game. So long as you save often and don't mind re-starting when something stops working.

Clearly general population of users expected something different. Which, I guess, is not their fault, given that the marketing on YouTube looked pretty crisp and didn't really mention the problems. Although, I think by now people should understand what an "early access" of a game is. We should all get better about the communication surrounding this - developers, reviewers, and gamers alike. Early access doesn't mean you get the finished game early through the magic of time travel. You're playing an alpha, or in a best case beta, version of the game. By definition, alpha means playable to completion with major bugs. You can build a rocket to take you to any of the game's planets and moons and you'll be encountering major bugs. Alpha version - check.

I understand that some people have been waiting for the game for a long time, and so falsely believe it should be done. It's not done, and it shouldn't be graded as a game that's done. Once again, for an alpha, it's in a good state, and I'm enjoying the experience. People who can only enjoy a game when it's finished and polished should wait until the game is fully released. And that goes for any game in early access. And yeah, communication about that could and should have been better, and that's a fair thing to call out on any review, but complaining about the fact that an early access game is buggy is just silly.

Well now at least now we have the answer for that thread a month ago  complaining on why they are not making massive marketing buzz

[J.Random]

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Note how you refuse to elaborate on any of these points.

If I were to elaborate, it would be a wall of text with a comment (or five) pretty much on every menu, button and popup window, both in editor and in flight. At the moment the UI may be considered a placeholder at best, and devs have their hands full with more pressing issues.

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

maneuvers have delivered me to exactly the orbit

The orbits themselves aren't "exactly" exact at the moment. Neither are maneuvers, they're drifting, resetting, they deviate across SoI changes or even with camera movement, apparently. Warp exacerbates the issue, especially for those using shortcuts, because in their infinite wisdom devs have put physical warp into the same progression as non-physical one, so switching to x10 you inevitably go through x2, x3, x4, adding calculation errors on the way.

Edited March 1, 2023 by J.Random

[Bej Kerman]

10 minutes ago, J.Random said:

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Note how you refuse to elaborate on any of these points.

If I were to elaborate, it would be a wall of text with a comment (or five) pretty much on every menu, button and popup window, both in editor and in flight. At the moment the UI may be considered a placeholder at best, and devs have their hands full with more pressing issues.

The UI is completely fine - I am not seeing these problems. I don't see any "walls of text". The parts manager list is the closest I can think of, but even then it's hardly a "wall of text".

10 minutes ago, J.Random said:

they're drifting, resetting, they deviate across SoI changes or even with camera movement, apparently

Then either work around the bugs you spot, or don't mess with EA titles

When I work around these bugs, I find maneuvers to be good at putting me on requested orbits. I say you might be acting a bit hyperbolic.

10 minutes ago, J.Random said:

in their infinite wisdom devs have put physical warp into the same progression as non-physical one, so switching to x10 you inevitably go through x2, x3, x4, adding calculation errors on the way

And so far I have ran 0 missions in which calculation errors amounted to anything that wasn't negligible. Even when docking, it's hardly much. You aren't getting your intercepts within a kilometer anyway unless anything less than perfection makes you anxious.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Bej Kerman

[Periple]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

You aren't getting your intercepts within a kilometer anyway unless anything less than perfection makes you anxious.

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

The UI is completely fine - I am not seeing these problems.

You don’t see any bugs and shortcomings in KSP2 at all, and if there are, then you don’t need to pay attention to them. If someone draws, then you immediately begin to prove that the person has fantasized everything for himself. And the fact that KSP2 has a dV calculator makes this game incredible! All evil from mods, KSP1 is a terrible game, and its developers can only develop mobile games. Did I forget anything in your settings? Oh yeah, you didn't say that, it's all an imaginary scarecrow.

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, Alexoff said:

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

The UI is completely fine - I am not seeing these problems.

You don’t see any bugs and shortcomings in KSP2 at all, and if there are, then you don’t need to pay attention to them. If someone draws, then you immediately begin to prove that the person has fantasized everything for himself. And the fact that KSP2 has a dV calculator makes this game incredible! All evil from mods, KSP1 is a terrible game, and its developers can only develop mobile games. Did I forget anything in your settings? Oh yeah, you didn't say that, it's all an imaginary scarecrow.

If you're hurt at all by my evaluation, which is evident from your ridicule, that KSP 2's bugs are forgivable for an EA game that literally just came out while Squad's decisions are not like the one to hold off for over half a decade on something as simple and basic as dV readouts, you are absolutely free and well in your rights to ignore me.

[Alexoff]

13 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

If you're hurt at all by my evaluation, which is evident from your ridicule, that KSP 2's bugs are forgivable for an EA game that literally just came out while Squad's decisions are not like the one to hold off for over half a decade on something as simple and basic as dV readouts, you are absolutely free and well in your rights to ignore me.

I have every right not to ignore your constant stories about a wonderful game that is in early access and has almost no flaws. Early access is a dyson sphere program, open beta is starcraft 2 in 2010, KSP2 is a cross between a yandere simulator and a stolen alpha version of halflife 2, but for $50

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Alexoff said:

I have every right not to ignore your constant stories about a wonderful game that is in early access and has almost no flaws. Early access is a dyson sphere program, open beta is starcraft 2 in 2010, KSP2 is a cross between a yandere simulator and a stolen alpha version of halflife 2, but for $50

Well then if you get angry because you find yourself unable to change my mind, unable to get me to see Intercept as the scam-running demons they obviously are according to you, then that's on you.

[Alexoff]

32 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Well then if you get angry because you find yourself unable to change my mind, unable to get me to see Intercept as the scam-running demons they obviously are according to you, then that's on you.

Are you going to ignore the facts for this?

[Vl3d]

4 hours ago, tstein said:

Well now at least now we have the answer for that thread a month ago  complaining on why they are not making massive marketing buzz

Ain't that the truth... my apologies to the marketing team. Great cinematics!

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, Alexoff said:

Are you going to ignore the facts for this?

Like the fact the devs are juggling the core game you and many others are whining about and all the background features that are not yet ready for release? Or the fact they're dealing with technical challenges Squad didn't even bother with? Maybe even the fact much of the game they were working on probably went out the window with Star Theory? Don't forget that they are also trying to support interstellar travel using techniques that are being pioneered right now, you can't complain about them taking their time to implement object position tracking in a way that they can't just take off a stack exchange, when literally nobody has done anything of the sort before.

[fragtzack]

I really hope KSP2 development continues and reaches a solid and fun product in the coming years. Yes, it will take many more years IMHO. 

However, I will not be changing my negative Steam review until they fix core missing features that KSP1 has:

--Manuever node planner functionality. (The one item is what made me completely give up on playing KSP2)

--Thermal heating mechanics (rentry)

--Thrust/weight ratios per stage in VAB

--VAB mission planning deltaV/thurst and weight ration allowing for stage environment differences(is this stage at surface, 50K or in zeroG?)

 

I can live with Kraken and a lot of missing content such as : parts, science, career mode, interstellar, multiplayer...

But these core basic functions I listed above are just too much for me to accept because I am not a paid employee to be a tester for extremely alpha product. In fact, I paid premium price for this extremely early alpha product is what bothers me the most about the state of KSP2 affairs. 

 

 

 

[Player from CN]

I am a member of China KSP community, for now no one is discussing about KSP2, almost all of us have go back to KSP1. 

I have to say we are totally disappointed about KSP2

[Alexoff]

21 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Like the fact the devs are juggling the core game you and many others are whining about and all the background features that are not yet ready for release? Or the fact they're dealing with technical challenges Squad didn't even bother with? Maybe even the fact much of the game they were working on probably went out the window with Star Theory? Don't forget that they are also trying to support interstellar travel using techniques that are being pioneered right now, you can't complain about them taking their time to implement object position tracking in a way that they can't just take off a stack exchange, when literally nobody has done anything of the sort before.

Right now the game is very bad, it lacks a lot of what should have been. But there are a lot of bugs. It is simply impossible to ignore this fact. Interstellar flights were in mods in the main game, everything worked quite well. But even now there is no reason to fly, the planets have not changed in any way from KSP1 as the gameplay. They are very boring. And bugged. Fortunately, there are no normal options for adding mods to the game yet, so the modders have not yet had time to spoil the wonderful stock! I think you must be very pleased! And the fact that the previous developments on KSP2 were thrown away is a lie and stupid excuses, the funding for the development of the game came from  rich corporation, all rights belonged to it, if the dying studio decided to take textures and wonderfully made bases for itself, then the matter would quickly end in court. And we would have learned about this back in 2020 from gaming journalists. Moreover, the second time to write the same code is not so difficult. And if now the legs work so badly in KSP2, then I imagine with horror how the bases will work.

[Bej Kerman]

7 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Right now the game is very bad, it lacks a lot of what should have been. But there are a lot of bugs. It is simply impossible to ignore this fact. Interstellar flights were in mods in the main game, everything worked quite well

If you can seriously believe interstellar in KSP 1 worked well...

9 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

fact

Such as the fact multiplayer is in a working state and that many roadmap features were found by dataminers to be in KSP 2?

11 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

I think you must be very pleased!

Enjoy the high road while it lasts.

[Alexoff]

7 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

If you can seriously believe interstellar in KSP 1 worked well...

In general, yes, I played and did not notice any bugs. This is of course a mod and it added bugs, but apparently to someone else. And what about KSP2 with interplanetary flights? Maneuvers fixed? Can you see the flight path? Added transfer window calculation? Maybe you can look at the TWR of individual stages? Or will you again talk about early versions of KSP1 without mods? We're talking about today's game, not every ugly duckling grows into a swan. Many people were waiting for B4B, but for some reason, after playing this game, they went to the old L4D2, which came out when many of them did not even go to school.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Alexoff

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, Alexoff said:

In general, yes, I played and did not notice any bugs

At that point you'd have to intentionally be ignoring them.

[Jacke]

- moved to a more appropriate thread

Edited March 2, 2023 by Jacke

[MarcAbaddon]

I didn't ever try out the Interstellar Mod, but I played with ScanSat, the Near and Far Future suite and several other mods and I don't recall mod caused bugs (I think there were some over all the time I played). Of course, there were some bugs from KSP itself, but rarely anything serious. It was definitely nothing as major as KSP 2 at the moment, where I tend to encounter some major bug every mission.

EDIT: oh, now I remember one major bug that was still there  the last time I extensively played. Large crafts tended to explode when trying to use the unmodded construction mode from EVA. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by MarcAbaddon

[Alexoff]

31 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

At that point you'd have to intentionally be ignoring them.

Well, you certainly know better. Everywhere solid bugs from mods! Too bad I can't hear any specifics.

[Bej Kerman]

21 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Well, you certainly know better. Everywhere solid bugs from mods! Too bad I can't hear any specifics.

There's nothing specific I need to say about my attempts to go between two stars using Blueshift crashing if I dare timewarp too quickly.

[Alexoff]

19 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

There's nothing specific I need to say about my attempts to go between two stars using Blueshift crashing if I dare timewarp too quickly.

Everything worked fine for me, you must be using early versions of KSP2. By the way, how is the problem of interstellar flights solved in KSP2? Is it definitely resolved? Someone checked, flew very far? Or is this another advance for developers?

[Bej Kerman]

3 hours ago, Alexoff said:

23 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

There's nothing specific I need to say about my attempts to go between two stars using Blueshift crashing if I dare timewarp too quickly.

Everything worked fine for me, you must be using early versions of KSP2. By the way, how is the problem of interstellar flights solved in KSP2? Is it definitely resolved? Someone checked, flew very far? Or is this another advance for developers?

They have discussed it before and their solution clearly isn't KSP 1's "Kerbol is too far from the player, GO TO RED ALERT!!!"

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

They have discussed it before and their solution clearly isn't KSP 1's "Kerbol is too far from the player, GO TO RED ALERT!!!"

Strange, how did I fly to Pluto in 2016? I don't remember any problems with the game at all. On the scale of the stock system, Pluto is almost another galaxy.