After 50 hours played, I've decided the game is currently unplayable

[Nuke]

after running an ion craft to jool, ive decided that single rocket missions are pretty much ok and playable. but try to do a multi-launch mission and you will have problems. what you can do is limited by what you can cram into a single launch. with rockets being wobbly, good luck with that.

 

also i really like the physics warp. makes those long ion burns much less of a waste of time. though i think the game needs a way to plot constant burn trajectories for those. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Nuke

[MarcAbaddon]

I think it does plot constant burn trajectories correctly though? I had a pro-grade maneuver planned with the ion engine dialed down to 50% and it showed me crashing on the planet (since it took so long that the prograde burn becomes retrograde once you have completed half an orbit).

I think it's pretty neat. But at the same time I think it has major limitations in that the heading is fixed in time warp. So you can't really have an ion engine slowly spiral out of orbit by keeping it oriented pro-grade throughout the time-warped burn.

By the way, can you keep burning while you are in the KSC or switched to a far away vessel? I have not tried that yet, but if that doesn't work it's another limitation that will probably become meaningful at some point.

To be nitpicky, it's also not a physics warp. Physics except thrust is disabled, which will surely have some interesting interactions if you think about it. Has anyone tried to build a vessel with off-center thrust and burn during time-warp? If it's really not a physics warp it wouldn't be able to induce the rotation you get from off-center thrust.

Edited March 1, 2023 by MarcAbaddon

[twich22]

2 hours ago, Nuke said:

after running an ion craft to jool, ive decided that single rocket missions are pretty much ok and playable. but try to do a multi-launch mission and you will have problems. what you can do is limited by what you can cram into a single launch. with rockets being wobbly, good luck with that

Exactly. I can turn on infinite propellant, indestructible joints, indestructible parts, and launch craft into orbit that way, then change settings back to normal and fly missions that way. But what’s the point of that? 
 

i could edit the game save files and put my craft into orbit that way. But what’s the point of that either? 
 

The basic premise of the game is launching things into space. Right now the number of things you can actually launch into space is extremely limited by bugs. Not by the game or the intent of the game, simply bugs and poor performance. So in that regard the game is unplayable. I spent 3 days circumventing literally hundreds of bugs just to get my more complex craft up to mid kerbin altitude, and still even more bugs prevent me from going beyond that without running into some failures. It’s simply too much.

Understand, that’s 3 whole days of playing with bugs and fighting bugs. I’m not playing the game. I’m not contending with the physics of the game or the effects of atmosphere or thrust to weight ratios or the staging of vessels or planning a mission to get the right orbits or anything  that you could consider overcoming the challenges of the game as intended. Just trying to overcome bugs. That’s not playable.

Now, I still believe that it will be fixed one day and will be an excellent game. Don’t get me wrong. I am excited for the future of the game. I’m fine with bugs too. I just need the game to be slightly more playable than it is now. I could deal with half the bugs and twice the performance. The only question at this point is how long will that take? Are we weeks away or months away? Or something else? 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by twich22

[Chilkoot]

12 hours ago, Gargamel said:

From what I’ve seen in this thread, most everybody is trying to be helpful and encouraging, but maybe in a unconventional manner.    Before anybody reacts negatively to a post, try to imagine them writing it in a non confrontational manner, and perhaps some sarcasm or some other such unwritten visual communication technique got lost in the internet.    

I would also add that if someone repeatedly rubs you the wrong way (intentionally or not) the Ignore feature can help keep perceived trolling out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Chilkoot

[Vanamonde]

Don't make the discussions personal, please. Some comments have been removed. 

[Kerbart]

I won’t call it unplayable yet but it surely can be frustrating. Decouplers not decoupling, ships uncontrollable, ships going to full throttle when switching control to them…

There’s a lot of potential for fun, but also for ripping your hair out.

[Lettuce]

I have taken to playing KSP 2 as more of a dev build, I've flown to the moon but during that flight I noticed some odd bugs like Bill getting flung into a different orbit while on EVA and decouplers not working. It was fine for me as from the early videos that KSP content creators made I knew to expect some bugs and for now I dont invest more than 30-45 min into a mission to avoid getting frustrated. I'll probably play a lot more after they get the science feature out and the bugs are fixed but for now I found that if you keep things simple and don't take it to seriously it can be enjoyable just not as much as I would have hoped.

[MechBFP]

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

I won’t call it unplayable yet but it surely can be frustrating. Decouplers not decoupling, ships uncontrollable, ships going to full throttle when switching control to them…

There’s a lot of potential for fun, but also for ripping your hair out.

Ya pretty much. 
Is it technically playable? Yes

Is it something you can sit down with an enjoy for a few hours and come out of feeling relaxed? No, definitely not. 

[10dot]

I literally signed up for an account to reply that most of you didn't play KSP 1 pre-Steam and it shows.  I'm here to tell ya the current state of things is at least a recently waxed Toyota compared to 2011-2012 KSP 1's duct-taped Fiat.  Granted, it's significantly more expensive.  It also HAS STRUTS.  Struts weren't added until 0.9 in KSP 1 which was like 2 months after the initial release.  This thread is adorable 

[10dot]

5 hours ago, Lettuce said:

I have taken to playing KSP 2 as more of a dev build, I've flown to the moon but during that flight I noticed some odd bugs like Bill getting flung into a different orbit while on EVA and decouplers not working. It was fine for me as from the early videos that KSP content creators made I knew to expect some bugs and for now I dont invest more than 30-45 min into a mission to avoid getting frustrated. I'll probably play a lot more after they get the science feature out and the bugs are fixed but for now I found that if you keep things simple and don't take it to seriously it can be enjoyable just not as much as I would have hoped.

I 100% agree.  It reminded me so much of the early pre-Steam KSP 1 builds I started playing it that way (very much like you described... with lots of attempts to break the physics on purpose along the way for lolz).  Is it worth $50 as a game experience right now?  Maybe not for lots of folks; but I got the original KSP for something like $17 back in 2011 and put thousands of hours into it thereafter, so it's easy to justify for me.

[VacuousSpace]

10 hours ago, 10dot said:

I 100% agree.  It reminded me so much of the early pre-Steam KSP 1 builds I started playing it that way (very much like you described... with lots of attempts to break the physics on purpose along the way for lolz).  Is it worth $50 as a game experience right now?  Maybe not for lots of folks; but I got the original KSP for something like $17 back in 2011 and put thousands of hours into it thereafter, so it's easy to justify for me.

My sentiments exactly.  Looking forward to the bugs being fixed and multiplayer feature.  I'm a casual intermittent KSP'er and was looking forward to KSP2 for a long time.  I actually had such difficulty going to Mun and back in KSP2 that I built a KSP1 rocket and went to Mun just to make sure I really can still do it.  KSP1 worked fine.  Completely disappointed in KSP2 and want my $50 back.  Unfortunately I left if paused for 6 hours and can't get a refund.  But I probably would just rebuy it once it gets better anyway, so no real loss, but lots of disappointment.

Where is KSP3 hype train when you need it?  

[ShadowZone]

I am roughly 24 hours in now.

I have been to Bop, Minmus, Duna (more crashing than landing), Mun (and returning after a few failed attempts) and have experimented with planes including some VTOL designs.

I like the game in general. Yes, there are situations where things just don't work. At all. But for the most part I can circumnavigate those.

But I also understand why people would drop it until the most egregious bugs have been fixed. Unfortunately there are a lot of them, multiple game breakers included. The first patch will show us if our faith in the team is warranted.

[whatsEJstandfor]

1 hour ago, ShadowZone said:

The first patch will show us if our faith in the team is warranted.

What do you consider must-haves for the first patch? I'd love if it addressed some of the stuff that makes the game literally unplayable (like getting stuck at Pumping Sim Once, for example) while also addressing some low-hanging fruit (multiple Game Paused/Unpaused notifications). As a layperson, it seems to me like they both are possible, but I wonder if you have your own criteria for what will be a successful first patch.

[farelinho]

I've played KSP for over 1000 hours, and that makes it by far my lowest euro per hour game ever.

Now I'm about 12h into KSP2, but a lot of that time has been wasted on  load, reload, and restart, redo crafts and general bug circumventing.  Managed to get to Mun and back, also went do Dres but bugs ruined the save.

It has been disappointing  to see many gross errors at some very basic features, afecting the core playability.

Contrary to many members on these forums, I'm not furious and I kind of expected part of this when we had EA announced and very few gameplay footage posted pre-release. But it is worse than I thought it would be.

If the game keeps its financial viability, it shall be corrected just like KSP1 and I'll still be playing.

My fears lie on the possibilty that someone at the top may look at the mess it's in and decides that the best option is just to accept a loss and close the tap... 

[ShadowZone]

4 minutes ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

What do you consider must-haves for the first patch? I'd love if it addressed some of the stuff that makes the game literally unplayable (like getting stuck at Pumping Sim Once, for example) while also addressing some low-hanging fruit (multiple Game Paused/Unpaused notifications). As a layperson, it seems to me like they both are possible, but I wonder if you have your own criteria for what will be a successful first patch.

Hmm, that's a tough one.

The "game paused/unpaused" bug has zero impact on your ability to build and fly rockets. So I would give it a very low priority. But a first time player will be put off by the game's UI freaking out every time they pause the game. So from that aspect it could be ranked higher. Without knowing the internal criteria inside Intercept Games how they prioritize their items, it's hard to say.

For me personally, vehicles seemingly randomly failing ("vessel destroyed" when undocking, landing gear or other parts falling off the vehicle) should be very high on the list. I think those fall under the category of "corrupted save games" because all of this shouldn't happen and mostly happens after a save and reload. These instances have made me almost give up on certain missions over the past week.

Then, all the shortcomings regarding maneuver plans:

• I create a plan, I have to click again to activate the gizmos. Why?
• When the gizmo is active, I cannot have PE/AP or any other node info fixed in view so I know what I'm doing. Basically I'm eyeballing every maneuver at the moment.
• You don't see the orbit past the SOI indicator when flying to Mun or any other bodies.
• There aren't any "time to node" infos
• When you have multiple orbits of the same craft laid on top (e.g. passing through Mun's SOI and then reaching similar AP again later), you have no idea which is which (all are blue)
• Maneuver plan does not display time left to burn.
• Maneuver plan required dV does not change while burning
• When switching flight view and map view during burn, planned trajectory is completely wrong (this bug is particularly bad for content creators who like to switch to the vehicle to see the nice engine plume and then check in map view)
• There's no transfer window planner yet. I have to rely on external tools.

And there's more. Just listing the ones off the top of my head. All of this prevents players to leave LKO. And stunts any ambition to go interplanetary, because it makes that unnecessarily hard.

 

Honestly, I agree that performance needs to be improved. But I don't care about many FPS if I can't go anywhere after I reach orbit. Or can rely on that when I restart the game my craft won't spontaneously combust.

Everything surrounding these two topics are my personal top priorities for bugfixes.

[KotahR007]

sorry to hear that will love to see you play the game again and soon and when it is enjoyable for you

[PakledHostage]

There's other fun stuff that can be done now while we wait for the next patch (or series of patches)... If I might make a shameless plug for my challenge over in the Challenges subforum:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/213524-minimum-delta-v-to-lko/