Physics we all lost

[gloFIS]

Exploring the Jool Layth satellite, I came across something odd, because the temperature on Leyth is -112 degrees Celsius, but the water remains liquid.

[adsii1970]

14 minutes ago, gloFIS said:

the temperature on Leyth is -112 degrees Celsius, but the water remains liquid.

Maybe it's not pure water, as we initially expected it to be? Just tossing out an idea. I remember this conversation when KSP (original) was at 0.90 (Beta than ever).

 

[jimmymcgoochie]

Are you sure that’s the temperature on the surface?

[mikegarrison]

On 6/1/2023 at 11:59 AM, gloFIS said:

Exploring the Jool Layth satellite, I came across something odd, because the temperature on Leyth is -112 degrees Celsius, but the water remains liquid.

What's the issue? That's approximately the temperature of my shower until the hot water gets from the garage to the second floor of my house.

[Kerbalsaurus]

I think Laythe's oceans remain ocean due to a combination of things. First off, salt. Salt would keep Laythe's oceans warm for a long time. But there's still an issue to this. As a YouTuber named Curious explained, "...4.2 kilograms of salt of every kilogram of water. So it's basically salt with water, not water with salt." Here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l8P1W9YFls. So, basically, its oceans would have to be water-salt, not the other way around. What I think could also be happening is that the tidal forces from Jool, Tylo, and Vall are pulling on Laythe, creating lots of tidal heating and perhaps even evoking some geologic activity under the ocean. Something like deep sea vents. This is actually happening in real life, with Jupiter's moon Io. Io is literally being turned inside out from the tidal forces of Jupiter, Ganymede, Europa, and Callisto.

[TwoCalories]

2 hours ago, Kerbalsaurus said:

I think Laythe's oceans remain ocean due to a combination of things. First off, salt. Salt would keep Laythe's oceans warm for a long time. But there's still an issue to this. As a YouTuber named Curious explained, "...4.2 kilograms of salt of every kilogram of water. So it's basically salt with water, not water with salt." Here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l8P1W9YFls. So, basically, its oceans would have to be water-salt, not the other way around. What I think could also be happening is that the tidal forces from Jool, Tylo, and Vall are pulling on Laythe, creating lots of tidal heating and perhaps even evoking some geologic activity under the ocean. Something like deep sea vents. This is actually happening in real life, with Jupiter's moon Io. Io is literally being turned inside out from the tidal forces of Jupiter, Ganymede, Europa, and Callisto.

Personally, I'm a fan of the geological activity theory. And with the Breaking Ground DLC, Laythe has geysers, so that implies there's something going on underneath the surface.

[jimmymcgoochie]

From the KSP Wiki:

Quote

Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. At the equator, sea level temperatures vary between a nighttime low of 9 °C and a daytime high of 15 °C. Mid-latitudes are only slightly cooler than the equatorial zone — at latitudes below 63°, the sea level temperature never drops below 0 °C. At the poles, the temperature varies between -26 °C and -24 °C. The globally averaged sea level temperature is approximately 9 °C. Since Laythe has no axial tilt, there are no seasonal temperature variations.

 Also relevant:

According to former developer NovaSilisko, Laythe was planned to have volcanic activity and high radiation levels in later versions, making it a much more hostile moon.

Breaking Ground added volcanic features- geothermal geysers and undersea volcanoes/hydrothermal vents- which suggest extensive volcanism; since Laythe's orbit around Jool has zero inclination and zero eccentricity, this is most likely driven by gravitational interactions with Tylo and to a lesser extent Vall. If you've ever used Kerbalism you'll know that Laythe is right inside Jool's magnetic fields, coming very close to the extremely powerful inner belt when it passes behind Jool (the magnetic field is influenced by solar wind and stretches further from the planet on the side furthest from Kerbol) meaning that Laythe's core could be being heated by Jool's magnetosphere too.

[Scarecrow71]

Assuming a standard 1 atmosphere of pressure, there are multiple substances that remain liquefied at -110 degrees Celsius:

• Butane, which melts at -140
• Ethanol, which melts at -114
• Propane, which melts at -188

Now, that doesn't take into account any of the things posited above (geothermal activity, gravity, magnetism), nor does it take into account pressure beyond 1 atmosphere on the surface of Laythe.  But any of those liquids could be the liquid in Laythe's oceans.

[Nazalassa]

3 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Ethanol, which melts at -114

At -140, this one is not liquid, it's solid.

[Rutabaga22]

On 6/2/2023 at 8:40 PM, TwoCalories said:

Personally, I'm a fan of the geological activity theory. And with the Breaking Ground DLC, Laythe has geysers, so that implies there's something going on underneath the surface.

The amount of islands also makes me think there is heavy volcanism.

[TwoCalories]

4 hours ago, Rutabaga22 said:

The amount of islands also makes me think there is heavy volcanism.

Good point. I never thought about that evidence.

[Martian Emigrant]

Hi.

 

-112°c?

There could be explanations for the oceans being liquid but how are Kerbals walking without a helmet?

 

ME

Edited July 9, 2023 by Martian Emigrant

[RevanX_LSR]

On 6/3/2023 at 6:34 AM, Kerbalsaurus said:

I think Laythe's oceans remain ocean due to a combination of things. First off, salt. Salt would keep Laythe's oceans warm for a long time. But there's still an issue to this. As a YouTuber named Curious explained, "...4.2 kilograms of salt of every kilogram of water. So it's basically salt with water, not water with salt." Here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l8P1W9YFls. So, basically, its oceans would have to be water-salt, not the other way around. What I think could also be happening is that the tidal forces from Jool, Tylo, and Vall are pulling on Laythe, creating lots of tidal heating and perhaps even evoking some geologic activity under the ocean. Something like deep sea vents. This is actually happening in real life, with Jupiter's moon Io. Io is literally being turned inside out from the tidal forces of Jupiter, Ganymede, Europa, and Callisto.

The tidal forces would actually be the greatest of Laythe had an eccentricity. The forces from changes in tides would heat up Laythe significantly, even more if Jool was more massive (~2.5g instead of 0.8)