AI Augmented Camera Missiles... Here Already Or On The Way?

[Spacescifi]

I was watching a youtube short about a particular fighter jet's method of countermeasures against incoming missiles.

The method involves deception via false signals.

So I thought of a potential solution... for the missile.

AI Augmented Camera Missile: It will still have the normal sensors missiles have to intercept targets. But in addition to that it would have an AI controlled camera trained to know what enemy fighter aircraft look like.

So even if sensors are fooled the camera would not be and it would still try to hit it.

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 10 by Spacescifi

[magnemoe]

Problem is that you has to get pretty close for the camera to pick up details on the plane, at this distance you will not confuse it. 
Jamming work best at long distances where the signal is weak. 
Now an camera could be nice to verify target so you don't hit your own planes or 3rd party ones. This need to be configurable and could be disabled but would be useful. 

[Spacescifi]

2 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Problem is that you has to get pretty close for the camera to pick up details on the plane, at this distance you will not confuse it. 
Jamming work best at long distances where the signal is weak. 
Now an camera could be nice to verify target so you don't hit your own planes or 3rd party ones. This need to be configurable and could be disabled but would be useful. 

 

Putting in a visual telescope mode for a camera should be possible. Even if you have to make the missile heavier or larger.

What's a few more dollars for a missile that WON'T miss?

[magnemoe]

2 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

Putting in a visual telescope mode for a camera should be possible. Even if you have to make the missile heavier or larger.

What's a few more dollars for a missile that WON'T miss?

Think its two problems, first is rang who can be up to 200 km,  30 km is kind of short range here.  What sort of optic do you need to visually identify an plane at 200 or 30 km. 
As I understand fighter jets can have camera pods who can do this but the pods are many times wider than an missile. 
And yes you could probably build in an small telescope into the nose of an missile, doing so without disturbing the radar is more of an problem. Also you can only visible inspect in clear weather. 

[Spacescifi]

57 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Think its two problems, first is rang who can be up to 200 km,  30 km is kind of short range here.  What sort of optic do you need to visually identify an plane at 200 or 30 km. 
As I understand fighter jets can have camera pods who can do this but the pods are many times wider than an missile. 
And yes you could probably build in an small telescope into the nose of an missile, doing so without disturbing the radar is more of an problem. Also you can only visible inspect in clear weather. 

There is IR thermal vison tech

[magnemoe]

27 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

There is IR thermal vison tech

Who I assumed, but they will still be affected by clouds over +30 km.  Now as I understand its very hard to shake off modern anti air air missiles unless at long range.
Now it could make more sense against stealthy planes if radar has problem tracking them. The fighter jet might be able to but the smaller radar in the missile will have an harder time. 
Still its an limit on how good an telescope you can add, it also need so be able to see at least some degree to the side I think. Know some long range anti air missiles fly in an ballistic trajectory for longer range. 

[DDE]

22 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

I was watching a youtube short about a particular fighter jet's method of countermeasures against incoming missiles.

The method involves deception via false signals.

So I thought of a potential solution... for the missile.

AI Augmented Camera Missile: It will still have the normal sensors missiles have to intercept targets. But in addition to that it would have an AI controlled camera trained to know what enemy fighter aircraft look like.

So even if sensors are fooled the camera would not be and it would still try to hit it.

Thoughts?

Experimented but not deployed in AIM-9R Sidewinder, apparently deployed as a secondary system on Python 5. Either could be using early, pre-neural net AI.

Something more modern and air-to-ground has been definitely implemented throughout 2023 on the Lancet-3 loitering munition.

[monophonic]

ASRAAM, AIM-9X and probably Python use imaging infrared seeker heads. At least Python is purported to be capable of choosing which part of the target aircraft to attack. I presume such functionality would use pre-AI image recognition technology. This is, as mentioned above by a few posters, a short range technology. However some anti-aircraft missiles do now combine radar and infrared seekers into a dual method solution. These include RIM-66M Standard Missile 2 Block IIIB, and Stunner missile of Israel's David's Sling system. However, at least AIM-9X has been proven to still be at least somewhat vulnerable to simple flare countermeasures ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ja'Din_shootdown_incident ).

Below is a QF-4 target drone as seen by ASRAAM seeker. Image sourced from a post at f-16.net ( https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7883&start=18 ).

[Gargamel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon

[magnemoe]

3 hours ago, Gargamel said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon

Except they would be very short range and easy to confuse as in pigeons. Probably an breakthrough at the end of WW 2 but then it was few heavy bombers or ships to attack. 

[Nuke]

i can see this being used for terminal guidance, like the last seconds that the missile is a missile. that said by the time you are close enough to the target to identify it, you need course corrections immediately. doesn't give you a whole lot of time for image processing.

[kerbiloid]

On 11/10/2024 at 6:29 PM, magnemoe said:

What sort of optic do you need to visually identify an plane at 200 or 30 km. 

Ask Microprose for details.

Spoiler

[magnemoe]

18 hours ago, Nuke said:

i can see this being used for terminal guidance, like the last seconds that the missile is a missile. that said by the time you are close enough to the target to identify it, you need course corrections immediately. doesn't give you a whole lot of time for image processing.

Agree but for the last seconds you will have an good IR or radar lock anyway I think. But an visual friend / foe indicator would be nice. 
Has been both blue on blue and passenger jets shot down. US shot down an Iranian passenger plane and Russian separatists shoot down an Malaysian one. 
Its a bit less useful if both sides use the same fighter jets and civilian cargo planes are valid targets is delivering military cargo but then you disable or modify the system. 

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, magnemoe said:

But an visual friend / foe indicator would be nice. 

To distinguish a friendly Su-27 from a hostile Su-27.

With camouflaged decals.

By the pilot on-helmet emblem.

Through the anti-sunflare cockpit glass.

[magnemoe]

4 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

To distinguish a friendly Su-27 from a hostile Su-27.

With camouflaged decals.

By the pilot on-helmet emblem.

Through the anti-sunflare cockpit glass.

As said it don't work as well if both sides uses the same aircraft and IFF systems are common so its more an don't shoot down the passenger plane thing