Lisias Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, boolybooly said: This is interesting - "Annapurna Video-Game Division Imploded Because of Power Struggle". https://archive.is/TtTDX That kid is daughter of Larry Elisson (Oracle), the only dude in Earth that makes Bill Gates look as a nice guy. I'm not surprised. In fact, It's a plain miracle Annapurna Interactive lasted for so long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCWolf Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 (edited) 12 hours ago, Lisias said: the only dude in Earth that makes Bill Gates look as a nice guy. And the article itself is very lenient on Megan Ellison and her role in destroying Annapurna. Being a control freak because you're jealous of someone's good work stealing Daddy's spotlight from you, only to waste your employees' time offering them deals you're not even considering upholding if they don't submit to the same narcissistic schemes is definitely part of it. Will edit the OP to add this:https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/private-divisions-games-and-franchises-including-kerbal-space-program-are-reportedly-being-taken-over-by-former-annapurna-interactive-employees/ Edited January 9 by PDCWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icegrx Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I’ve awoken from my months long slumber because of the recent news. Is this something to get excited for? Or should I go back into hibernation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NexusHelium Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Icegrx said: I’ve awoken from my months long slumber because of the recent news. Is this something to get excited for? Or should I go back into hibernation? No one knows at this point. Many people have very different views on this. I personally think it's nothing to get your hopes up too high, but it is certainly the brightest bit of news we've received in a while. So like go into a half-hibernation Edited January 9 by NexusHelium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCWolf Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Icegrx said: I’ve awoken from my months long slumber because of the recent news. Is this something to get excited for? Or should I go back into hibernation? We were abandoned at a gas station by our previous drivers, they left us and the car and went away to do something else, they don't like roadtrips anymore. Now someone's come and bought the car... They won't see our money for the roadtrip because the previous guys took it when they left. The problem is we're kinda included with the car they bought. So yeah, we're just seeing what they do with the car... maybe finance the rest of the roadtrip to take us to the places we were already going to, hoping new people join in... or start a roadtrip some place else, or sell the car in pieces to interested buyers. What we have is a vague idea that they seem to be more decent people than the previous ones. Edited January 9 by PDCWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 6 hours ago, Icegrx said: I’ve awoken from my months long slumber because of the recent news. Is this something to get excited for? Or should I go back into hibernation? Both. These ex-annapurna guys managed to publish some really good games, they know their trade - but as mentioned before, they had not proven experiences on projects on KSP2's scale, so expect some growing pains in the future. Better give time to time before building (too much) expectations. 10 hours ago, PDCWolf said: And the article itself is very lenient on Megan Ellison and her role in destroying Annapurna. Annapurna is bigger than "just" Interactive, there's the Annapurna Pictures in which that kid was more active on, and they managed to hit some serious scores with their movies - adding offense to the injury, because she doesn't need to be afraid of competence, being she's competent enough to pull her own weight - or perhaps the Movie Industry is 1000% more lenient with abuses than on Game's? Anyway, would she had be a complete idiot, she would had buried Pictures a long time ago. So, in the end, your opinion about narcissism is almost a diagnostic, because this is exactly how these people dig themselves into their grave: in their holly war against anyone that could outshine their ego, they destroy even themselves. Edited January 10 by Lisias Better phrasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbal space program Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 11 minutes ago, NexusHelium said: No one knows at this point. Many people have very different views on this. I personally think it's nothing to get your hopes up too high, but it is certainly the brightest bit of news we've received in a while. So like go into a half-hibernation We can only hope that the new outfit makes some kind of announcement about what it intends to do soon. Still, any kind of news is better than no news at all at this point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icegrx Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Thanks for the update everyone! Glad to see the familiar faces still here too! Instead of a hibernation, I’ll take a nap for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, PDCWolf said: What we have is a vague idea that they seem to be more decent people than the previous ones. I'll disagree with this. If they were decent we would have at least been told who they were when it happened instead of being continually kept in the dark. Zero communication from anyone on this. 56 minutes ago, herbal space program said: We can only hope that the new outfit makes some kind of announcement about what it intends to do soon. Still, any kind of news is better than no news at all at this point! And as I pointed out above, we still haven't gotten any direct news on this. All we have is an article that someone got lucky enough to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCWolf Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Just now, Scarecrow71 said: I'll disagree with this. If they were decent we would have at least been told who they were when it happened instead of being continually kept in the dark. Zero communication from anyone on this. And as I pointed out above, we still haven't gotten any direct news on this. All we have is an article that someone got lucky enough to find. The Annapurna people are decent. Haveli and above... no comment. And I can guess it's not the Annapurna people in charge of announcements, at least for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephensmat Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 The new owners will make a decent game, the question is: Which one do they wanna make? They're buying the studio, so they have a few options. KSP worked because the devs loved their creation. You can't just replace them with 'anyone' and assume the same result. That's why everyone was so excited to see who had joined KSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbal space program Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 36 minutes ago, stephensmat said: The new owners will make a decent game, the question is: Which one do they wanna make? They're buying the studio, so they have a few options. KSP worked because the devs loved their creation. You can't just replace them with 'anyone' and assume the same result. That's why everyone was so excited to see who had joined KSA. I think it would be equally valid to say that KSP2 didn't work because the people developing it lacked the skills and/or resources required to implement a stable and efficient core game engine for it, even though they loved the game too. If the new outfit can assemble a team competent to tackle that problem, then my guess is that there are a whole lot of artistic assets already in place that they can salvage from the old game and transfer into a new, improved substrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, PDCWolf said: The Annapurna people are decent. Haveli and above... no comment. Additionally... The current status quo of the Game Industry is anything but decent - we would not be on this pathetic situation (not "we" KSP players, "we" as gamers in general) otherwise. The current known scandals barely scratched the surface, expect a lot of really interesting news in the next few years (yeah, it's going to take a while). These Investments and Management guys... They know their trade, they handle unethical and indecent people all the time (it's their bread and butter, to tell you the truth - otherwise, they would not had anyone to buy!!). They are not doing things this way because they are evil (not saying they aren't, but not saying they are neither - I'm just saying it's not the reason), they are doing things this way because historically they had way less failures doing this way than otherwise. You need to know to play dirty if you are on a dirty game. Quote And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss gazes back into you. Edited January 10 by Lisias I swear it was the autocorrector this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSteW Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Funnily enough, I've recently played Outer Wilds - which was published by Annapurna Interactive - and I was thinking to myself how cool it would be if we had some kind of Outer Wilds / KSP crossover, or KSP with a sort of story (which I think was supposed to be the idea, hence the anomalies etc?). Not that I want the story to be the point of the game, I love KSP for how open world it is, and how you can just do what you want, because you want. But if there was a little story there that you could investigate if you wanted to, I think that'd be awesome. I wonder if there's any chance these guys and the KSA team end up working together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skorj Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Not to dash anyone's hopes, but the new owners are a publisher not a studio. They fund game developers. they don't make games. They will not be working on KSP2 or any game. Our best hope remains that the Kerbal ISP gets sold off or licensed out. Maybe Rocketwerkz will license the Kerbals for KSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephensmat Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 49 minutes ago, Skorj said: Not to dash anyone's hopes, but the new owners are a publisher not a studio. They fund game developers. they don't make games. They will not be working on KSP2 or any game. Network. They have a very deep contact network built over the years. Give a peek on the Annapurna Interactive portfolio on Steam - every one of that developers has an entry on their contact list. Any one of them can be recruited to form a development team for handling KSP2. 51 minutes ago, Skorj said: Our best hope remains that the Kerbal ISP gets sold off or licensed out. Maybe Rocketwerkz will license the Kerbals for KSA. If KSP's IP ends up being sold, it's because no one on Haveli (or even Apollo Global, the Haveli main funders and I think even owners) found a way to make money from the IP - what, frankly, would be a very, very terrible news. On the other hand, these new guys... They have money enough to hire RW themselves to develop the game - heck, Apollo Global has firepower enough to buy Tencent, the main funders of RW, what to say about RW themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skorj Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 minute ago, Lisias said: On the other hand, these new guys... They have money enough to hire RW themselves to develop the game - heck, Apollo Global has firepower enough to buy Tencent, the main funders of RW, what to say about RW themselves? KSP2 is worthless IP IMO. There's not even sunk cost fallacy to work with, since the current owners didn't spend any money on it. We'd be talking about KSP3 if non-trivial money were to be spent. The only studio they worked with who would have even the vaguest clue how to make a physics sim is Mobius Digital (Outer Wilds), and while I'd love to see their take on a Kerbal game, we'd definitely get something more than a sandbox from them, studios can't sit idle waiting for work. They're either a year into quietly working on their next game, or shut down. Still, an Outer WIlds-style take on KSP would be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 minutes ago, Skorj said: KSP2 is worthless IP IMO. There's not even sunk cost fallacy to work with, since the current owners didn't spend any money on it. We'd be talking about KSP3 if non-trivial money were to be spent. Easy. We are not dealing with a "small" (compared to the new real owners) bad managed company like TTWO anymore. We are dealing with people buying Movie Studios on Monday and Cable Networks before the weekend - not to mention some absolutely gigantic enterprises on Las Vegas. They are among the best in the World, no one sits over 650B USD in assets without being pretty good on this business. Anything, absolutely anything is possible with these guys (granted, including nothing). They can easily foot money for years if someone convince them that they will recover all the investment with a decent ROI in 10 years - to anyone managing the funding, be absolutely sure that this happens, because otherwise... This is a whole new level of entertainment/entrepreneurship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 25 minutes ago, Lisias said: Give a peek on the Annapurna Interactive portfolio on Steam - every one of that developers has an entry on their contact list. Any one of them can be recruited to form a development team for handling KSP2. Can, sure. But people need to understand that the owners ARE NOT a development studio. So all of the talk about the owners developing KSP2 is a fantasy as it simply won't happen. If/When someone does come along and build a studio, then we can talk about development of the IP. 26 minutes ago, Lisias said: If KSP's IP ends up being sold, it's because no one on Haveli (or even Apollo Global, the Haveli main funders and I think even owners) found a way to make money from the IP - what, frankly, would be a very, very terrible news. The best way for them to make money on the IP is to sell it someone else. Because that would be an immediate ROI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 32 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: The best way for them to make money on the IP is to sell it someone else. Because that would be an immediate ROI. With the game at the current state? And without even trying? This is not how these guys do business!! They buy for cheap, recover the business and then, if the projected RoI is not good enough, sell them at some profit. These guys are not scrapyards - they are not in the scrap business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzlebop Smith Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) I have a feeling it will sit for a minute and let the ill will fade. Perhaps keep the forum alive and let the new developers work on small projects that can generate revenue with the (other) IP that can most easily generate a revenue stream with the least upfront investment, while tangentially pursuing third party licensing options. This may take the form of more kerbal legos and model sets or another more experience studio making a Kerbal game. If we do see something Kerbal related on the game front, from the proposed team, I have a feeling it will be a deviation from the current scope and try to cash in on the good will of the Kerbal name with a Cute Low impact approach. Mobile Ship Racing or Steam Dog Fighting? Perhaps an approach similar to the apple 2.5 mobile space game i cannot think of at the moment. Maybe there is some hope down the road, They do have many of the art assets to reuse while starting form scratch on the code. Music and artwork sure as heck is not cheap. Edited January 11 by Fizzlebop Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 56 minutes ago, Lisias said: With the game at the current state? And without even trying? This is not how these guys do business!! They buy for cheap, recover the business and then, if the projected RoI is not good enough, sell them at some profit. These guys are not scrapyards - they are not in the scrap business. I believe you have forgotten that the IP includes KSP1. All the media, all the code, all the art. It isn't just KSP2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skorj Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) Sorry to say, Haveli does indeed seem to be a scrapyard for old tech companies. I see from their announcements that they even acquired the corpse of Veritas Software (I used to work there when tape backup was important). They do seem to try to eek out some value from their acquisitions, not just resell them, so there's that. As SZ noted, they're probably behind the licensing deal with Estes rockets. PD being acquired by a corporate vulture was what I predicted. I still have hope that an actual game studio will license the IP one day, as that's the easiest way for Haveli to make money. Side note: why does there have to be a real estate business named Annapurna Haveli, gobbling up the search results? The universe is laughing at me. EDIT: wait, I can see it now: a new collaboration between Kitten Space Agency and Stray: from the streets to the stars, Strays in Spaaaaaaceeee Edited January 11 by Skorj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomKid Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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