[0.21.1] KAS v0.4.3 - Struts, pipes, part storage, containers, merged winches & more

[nismobg]

I have fixed the frozen kerbal stuff by either save/load , or edit your persistent.sfs or quicksave file and remove the Part attached to your kerbal manually and then reload the save. I cant remember how I found it but i think you should search it by kerbal's name and then remove the specific KAS part he has equiped.

[katateochi]

Heres a trick I learned from Danny. Alt right click on each sepratron, then press Escape, while the menu is up on the screen press Activate Engine on both engines, and when you press Resume both will fire at once happy rocketing lol

ah, I knew I'd seen him do something cunning, just couldn't remember what it was. That worked a treat, Jeb and I thank you, Bill on the other hand is livid;

His first flight with 2 septrons was short lived, but a 2nd attempt sent him tumbling several hundred meters away, clearing the SPH.

But Jeb wasn't satisfied with the results and took the MOAR approach.

He watched as bill hit Mach 1 and disappeared in a puff of was-a-kerbal several km away. Calmly, he took out his notebook and wrote; "has room for improvement, hire more staff".

[gl0ryh0und]

I have fixed the frozen kerbal stuff by either save/load , or edit your persistent.sfs or quicksave file and remove the Part attached to your kerbal manually and then reload the save. I cant remember how I found it but i think you should search it by kerbal's name and then remove the specific KAS part he has equiped.

In every particular case I encountered I was able to drop or discard the KAS part the kerbal was carrying.. In space I could turn RCS pack on or off, but not on a planetary body. loading or changing the scene would not bring the kerbal back under control. perhaps the effects on the kerbal are slightly different depending on what mods and/or what your doing at the time.

[xt12120]

@KospY re: Floating Pylons

A couple screenshots of the problem I'm facing:

Before laying the "Golden Spike"

Aftermath

Maybe I need to put a ship in between the two crafts? The tank is purely storage, no resource conversion. I did move the pipe joints to the lower section of the pylons and had the same results, although it did seem like it too longer for the storage tank to start floating. The drill module seems to stay in place. Mods I'm running: Aviation Lights, Engineer, KAS, Kethane, KOSMOS, Protractor.

[nismobg]

In every particular case I encountered I was able to drop or discard the KAS part the kerbal was carrying.. In space I could turn RCS pack on or off, but not on a planetary body. loading or changing the scene would not bring the kerbal back under control. perhaps the effects on the kerbal are slightly different depending on what mods and/or what your doing at the time.

Well the last time this happen to me was at minmus, i had to delete the part from the save and since that never had problems again.

[automcdonough]

some observations. some might be bugs, some could just use tweaks, some might just be how the game is.

And this apparently works.

I tried to duplicate this experiment.. both of your creations actually.

creating anything in space is REALLY tough. a lot of the parts cause the kerbal to spin out of control because he's off balance once the part is on his back. all you can do is turn off the jetpack or drop the part. the parachute does this consistently.. Also I accidentally slapped the RCS block on the back of the kerbal's helmet. apparently that was a one way trip, had to get another one but he was off balance and gave up on it. I don't know if there's anything that can be done about this, he just spins himself whenever you turn the jetpack on. not all the parts do it.

the parachute physics (or any atmospheric physics for that matter) don't seem to apply to the kerbal. Despite the chute being deployed like it should he continued accelerating until hitting the ground at nearly 3k m/s.

reeling someone in you have to be careful.. poor guy was being whipped around the ship like a ball on a string, faster and faster as the winch length got shorter. when it was about to park/stop the winch busted off and sent him flying away form the ship.. then i see there was no pack fuel. was he using it to fight the winch the whole time? hmm. I should have paused the reel and tried to slow that spinning down but i admit i was entertained and just wanted to see what happens.

the grapple hook doesn't work on kerbals, just bounced off him. I didn't hear any screaming but he's in space. reeling that in took some work.. kinda the same thing happened but it wouldn't "park" itself, just kept bouncing around at 1ft length indefinitely. that thing needs to lose energy when it hits the winch base/surrounding objects.. just kept hitting retract until i got lucky.

[katateochi]

some observations. some might be bugs, some could just use tweaks, some might just be how the game is.

I tried to duplicate this experiment.. both of your creations actually.

creating anything in space is REALLY tough. a lot of the parts cause the kerbal to spin out of control because he's off balance once the part is on his back. all you can do is turn off the jetpack or drop the part. the parachute does this consistently.. Also I accidentally slapped the RCS block on the back of the kerbal's helmet. apparently that was a one way trip, had to get another one but he was off balance and gave up on it. I don't know if there's anything that can be done about this, he just spins himself whenever you turn the jetpack on. not all the parts do it.

The parts that have physicJoint set to true are the ones that cause the kerbal to spin. From what I've found if you want a part to function while attached to a kerbal then it needs to be true to work (ie for parachutes, septons). If you change it to false then the kerbal will handle like normal. if you hit ctrl+k and then ctrl+click on the part in question you can change that setting in game. So you can move the part with it set to false and then change it to true when you want to use that part on the kerbal.

the parachute physics (or any atmospheric physics for that matter) don't seem to apply to the kerbal. Despite the chute being deployed like it should he continued accelerating until hitting the ground at nearly 3k m/s.

I'm guessing your parachutes have physicJoint set to false, try changing that.

reeling someone in you have to be careful.. poor guy was being whipped around the ship like a ball on a string, faster and faster as the winch length got shorter. when it was about to park/stop the winch busted off and sent him flying away form the ship.. then i see there was no pack fuel. was he using it to fight the winch the whole time? hmm. I should have paused the reel and tried to slow that spinning down but i admit i was entertained and just wanted to see what happens.

Yeah if their jetpack is on they will just waste fuel while being swung about!

[Leberschnitzel]

I have fixed the frozen kerbal stuff by either save/load , or edit your persistent.sfs or quicksave file and remove the Part attached to your kerbal manually and then reload the save. I cant remember how I found it but i think you should search it by kerbal's name and then remove the specific KAS part he has equiped.

thanks, I will try that. Otherwise I will declare him a kerbed satelite ^^

[automcdonough]

The parts that have physicJoint set to true are the ones that cause the kerbal to spin. From what I've found if you want a part to function while attached to a kerbal then it needs to be true to work (ie for parachutes, septons). If you change it to false then the kerbal will handle like normal. if you hit ctrl+k and then ctrl+click on the part in question you can change that setting in game. So you can move the part with it set to false and then change it to true when you want to use that part on the kerbal.

I'm guessing your parachutes have physicJoint set to false, try changing that.

Yeah if their jetpack is on they will just waste fuel while being swung about!

I'll try it. But from what you're saying, if it was false then he should not have spun out of control trying to jetpack. If it was true then the chute should have slowed him down!

Has anyone else tried this??

[Sean Mirrsen]

The radial parachute is absolutely impossible to use, either in space or on the ground. On the ground it clips into the floor and pops off, causing an interface error where it doesn't count as detached. In space it causes the suit's RCS to become useless until it is dropped - any kind of directional movement becomes impossible as the kerbal starts spinning out.

The only way it can be used is if you are on a re-entry trajectory, in which case you can get out, grab it, and deploy it. The drag from the parachute is greater than that of the kerbal, so it actually meaningfully contributes to slowing down. In order to properly re-enter you have to have a really shallow trajectory though. You can't re-enter hard, because you will not slow down in time.

On that note, perhaps KAS can have a sort of a deployable re-entry chute? A compact pack that opens high in the atmosphere as a drogue, and opens fully at 500m as normal. No need to even let it be radially attachable, except perhaps as a tiny probe chute.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Sean Mirrsen

[automcdonough]

The radial parachute is absolutely impossible to use, either in space or on the ground. On the ground it clips into the floor and pops off, causing an interface error where it doesn't count as detached. In space it causes the suit's RCS to become useless until it is dropped - any kind of directional movement becomes impossible as the kerbal starts spinning out.

The only way it can be used is if you are on a re-entry trajectory, in which case you can get out, grab it, and deploy it. The drag from the parachute is greater than that of the kerbal, so it actually meaningfully contributes to slowing down. In order to properly re-enter you have to have a really shallow trajectory though. You can't re-enter hard, because you will not slow down in time.

On that note, perhaps KAS can have a sort of a deployable re-entry chute? A compact pack that opens high in the atmosphere as a drogue, and opens fully at 500m as normal. No need to even let it be radially attachable, except perhaps as a tiny probe chute.

Maybe if we make the smaller nose cone style one grabby it'll work better than the radial mount.

And no, the kerbal did NOT slow down. even on an aerobrake style orbit where the low point was under 10k, he just cometted through and the ap didn't drop by a single meter. watching the speed it was just gravity based acceleration as he got closer to kerbin and then decel as the altitude increased.. atmospheric drag was invisible to him.

[Leberschnitzel]

I have fixed the frozen kerbal stuff by either save/load , or edit your persistent.sfs or quicksave file and remove the Part attached to your kerbal manually and then reload the save. I cant remember how I found it but i think you should search it by kerbal's name and then remove the specific KAS part he has equiped.

Thanks, that worked! Searched for the kerbal in the file and removed the whole PART{} thingy and after that he was able to fly back to the station

I will send him back to kerbistan to recover and Jeb will take his place for now.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Maybe if we make the smaller nose cone style one grabby it'll work better than the radial mount.

And no, the kerbal did NOT slow down. even on an aerobrake style orbit where the low point was under 10k, he just cometted through and the ap didn't drop by a single meter. watching the speed it was just gravity based acceleration as he got closer to kerbin and then decel as the altitude increased.. atmospheric drag was invisible to him.

Just tried it myself with a proper re-entry...

...then with a silly re-entry.

Um.

Something's definitely amiss here.

I think it ties into the whole business with the parachute doing funny things when KAS'd. When I load the quicksave with the kerbal out next to the ship, carrying the parachute, then if I place the chute on the ship, the ship flies off and disintegrates. If I drop the chute, the chute disappears and the kerbal loses all RCS traction - drops out of physics, essentially.

Because Kerbals aren't completely immune to air resistance normally. This must be a side effect of that.

[KospY]

@KospY re: Floating Pylons

Maybe I need to put a ship in between the two crafts? The tank is purely storage, no resource conversion. I did move the pipe joints to the lower section of the pylons and had the same results, although it did seem like it too longer for the storage tank to start floating. The drill module seems to stay in place. Mods I'm running: Aviation Lights, Engineer, KAS, Kethane, KOSMOS, Protractor.

I'm not sure, but I suspect this :

There is some old reports of problem with winches when using an octogonal strut. Because they are "physicless", they can cause trouble on "dock"

I didn't take a look on that but can you try to attach pipes end point directly on the vessel tanks for exemple ?

KAS Killed Bill! (ok, maybe it was me because I logged out with him having that thing on his back)

He is in outer space, floating near my station with an strut point on his back and I can't drop it or anything, It's just there hindering his jetpack movement

any Idea on how to rescue him?

Know bug. Will be fixed in the next version. (warp with a grabbed object is buggy on 0.4.2)

[Ratzap]

There is some old reports of problem with winches when using an octogonal strut. Because they are "physicless", they can cause trouble on "dock"

I didn't take a look on that but can you try to attach pipes end point directly on the vessel tanks for exemple ?

Confirmed. I had a base building with a pipe end on an octo strut - the connection went bananas. I changed it to container nearby and it was fine. I did this specifically to check if the old bug was present - it is.

[afranius]

I looked through the bug tracker and couldn't find anything about this -- wondering if anyone else has this problem:

I'm trying to connect two vessels on the ground with a winch and a dismountable connector, and while manipulating the winch (often right after docking the winch ship with the ship that has the dismountable connector mounted on it), the screen (except for HUD) turns black, velocity indicator reads "NaN", and the altitude indicator starts to scroll through nonsense numbers like "111111" "222222", etc. If I go back to space center, it's all black until I restart the game. When I load the save, if the vessels are already docked by the winch, first the vessel disappears immediately, and about a second later I get the black screen again. If I saved before I docked them, it's fine, but when I dock them via winch I get black screen again.

Any ideas? I'm running a number of other mods, so it may be an interaction with those: DeadlyRentry, Ioncross, B9, WarpPlugin, Firespitter, a few others.

[gl0ryh0und]

In every particular case I encountered I was able to drop or discard the KAS part the kerbal was carrying.. In space I could turn RCS pack on or off, but not on a planetary body. loading or changing the scene would not bring the kerbal back under control. perhaps the effects on the kerbal are slightly different depending on what mods and/or what your doing at the time.

This actually happens a lot .. when I go EVA to do anything with KAS I figure I have 80% of something glitching.. I considering this one of my one have mods, but at this rate I may need to remove it and wait until it is stable.

[xt12120]

I'm not sure, but I suspect this :

There is some old reports of problem with winches when using an octogonal strut. Because they are "physicless", they can cause trouble on "dock"

I didn't take a look on that but can you try to attach pipes end point directly on the vessel tanks for exemple ?

I thought this might be an issue after the first time that it bugged out, so I did remove that pipe end and attached it right above the octogon strut, it still happened. Maybe tonight I will redesign my storage tank and send it up for a trial.

[Arrowstar]

Last week on KospY's github, I saw he committed some fixes for issues like these. Maybe a new version is coming soon with fixes. KospY, any thoughts?

[automcdonough]

Just tried it myself with a proper re-entry...

...then with a silly re-entry.

Um.

Something's definitely amiss here.

I think it ties into the whole business with the parachute doing funny things when KAS'd. When I load the quicksave with the kerbal out next to the ship, carrying the parachute, then if I place the chute on the ship, the ship flies off and disintegrates. If I drop the chute, the chute disappears and the kerbal loses all RCS traction - drops out of physics, essentially.

Because Kerbals aren't completely immune to air resistance normally. This must be a side effect of that.

I had another one where i had a guy EVA and grab a chute from the bin. Then switched back in the ship and gunned it, intending to leave him stranded there. There was an explosion noise and it said the link between the chute and the ship broke? Some strange invisible link must have been active still. I don't really get it, he was clear of the ship. I switched back to the stranded kerbal and he didn't have the chute on his back anymore.

[amo28]

Has anyone had trouble getting the strut ends to attach while in EVA? I can take the part from the container, it attaches to my Kerbal, then I hit 'h' and the instructions come up on the screen, but I don't have any ability to place the strut. It doesn't change my mouse cursor or anything. I just hit 'h' or hit 'attach', then nothing happens other than the instructions.

I'm attempting to do this on a space station, so I am in orbit if that matters. Also, I'm on Linux.

Anyone have any advice?

[Mokmo]

Mini Bug report:

In the VAB, as i alt-click to copy one big container, the copy has the contained mass of the first one but none of the things in it...

EDIT: So a container which has had its contents defined will reactthe same way with Symmetry copy...

EDIT2: And it all goes back to normal on the Launchpad.

Has anyone had trouble getting the strut ends to attach while in EVA? I can take the part from the container, it attaches to my Kerbal, then I hit 'h' and the instructions come up on the screen, but I don't have any ability to place the strut. It doesn't change my mouse cursor or anything. I just hit 'h' or hit 'attach', then nothing happens other than the instructions.

I'm attempting to do this on a space station, so I am in orbit if that matters. Also, I'm on Linux.

Anyone have any advice?

Same here: Can do it fine on the ground, but once in orbit...

Edited October 16, 2013 by Mokmo
extra details

[Superfluous J]

Has anyone had trouble getting the strut ends to attach while in EVA? I can take the part from the container, it attaches to my Kerbal, then I hit 'h' and the instructions come up on the screen, but I don't have any ability to place the strut. It doesn't change my mouse cursor or anything. I just hit 'h' or hit 'attach', then nothing happens other than the instructions.

I'm attempting to do this on a space station, so I am in orbit if that matters. Also, I'm on Linux.

Anyone have any advice?

Do a quick save (f5) and then reload it (hold f9). It's not guaranteed but it frequently works for me. Though I've had very bad times attaching things in orbit and have decided to just not do it any more until there's a new release of the mod. I lost a half dozen full orange tanks of fuel that I'd gotten to Minmus becuase the game decided that one of them should be traveling a billion m/s in a different direction.

[apoch1999]

when i started to link them up my kerbal started sliding down the hill as well. he even blew up then he hit something...i can try it again when i get home without the linkage...see what happens

so i tried it out again yesterday, i moved everything down the hill a bit to a more even spot, everything was going well untill my kethane rig mechjebed its landing directly onto one of the connected ships. It exploded but the part connected by pipes stayed intact and oddly in the same spot with same inclination. as the reconstruction started i released all the piped and started to connect up the new rig. when i went to link them up with a pipe my kerbal started sliding again. i cut scene to the tracking staion and went back to the rig and the whole thing went wonky almost immediately and exploded again.

i did notice though that mechjeb keeps showing very very small movements in the velocity of mm's per second. usually 2 to 8. even though the base appears to be stationary and KSP reports 0.0 velocity. this occurs wether or not pipes are attached.

[JewelShisen]

so i tried it out again yesterday, i moved everything down the hill a bit to a more even spot, everything was going well untill my kethane rig mechjebed its landing directly onto one of the connected ships. It exploded but the part connected by pipes stayed intact and oddly in the same spot with same inclination. as the reconstruction started i released all the piped and started to connect up the new rig. when i went to link them up with a pipe my kerbal started sliding again. i cut scene to the tracking staion and went back to the rig and the whole thing went wonky almost immediately and exploded again.

i did notice though that mechjeb keeps showing very very small movements in the velocity of mm's per second. usually 2 to 8. even though the base appears to be stationary and KSP reports 0.0 velocity. this occurs wether or not pipes are attached.

I've noticed that about MJ too. I think that is just it being overly sensitive rather than a mod interaction.