Sean Mirrsen Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 So I've been sorting out the mess of a rescue mission I made to the Mun, which required first one replacement Kethane mining craft, then another (as the first one crashed, but the pilot EVAd and survived), and then it required a probe mission with some containers of connectors and spare parts.And as I was lugging the containers around, connecting pipes and replacing broken solar panels, I suddenly vividly remembered a different game.While Moonbase Alpha seems to be rather more (in)famous for its ingame text-to-speech function (aieou aieou), the general feeling of performing repairwork on the Moon that it possessed, seems to have translated into KAS very well. Well, sans the timed precision welding puzzles. Unless trying to put a solar panel onto the side of the pod while flying past it on RCS counts.What I wanted to say was, great job on the mod. Hopefully there will be a way to resolve the current ongoing problems, the "ships linked by a pipe count as one craft" problem in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apoch1999 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hey mate, sorry for late answer.The issue you're telling about is most definitely related to KAS. I encountered it myself on my own Münar base and had the same reaction as you. What's happening is what you described - parts spawn below the ground and turns everything into firework (at least a bit entertaining?).The solution in your end is unfortunately to make your base somewhere else, which must be more flat. I chose a frozen lake on Minmus (not harder to get to as landings are way easier), and carefully placed one module at a time and saved furiously between trips. No issues encountered yet.I'm sorry about your base, but when you've made it once, it's much easier to do it again im having the same issue..unfortunately we cant all land on perfectly flat platues. kethane spawns where it spawns. i looked around for a flater area but havent found one yet. any word on when this issue will be resolved? if it even can be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Mirrsen Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 One solution is to manually disjoin your base before leaving it. If you have no connecting pipes between major craft, there should be no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apoch1999 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 One solution is to manually disjoin your base before leaving it. If you have no connecting pipes between major craft, there should be no problem.when i started to link them up my kerbal started sliding down the hill as well. he even blew up then he hit something...i can try it again when i get home without the linkage...see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazael Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Love this MOD thanks:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaHuJa Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 My solution to the pipe bombs problem was to not use pipes. My base is connected by winches only now. I think the pipes will still be useful for orbital "docking", and for simple connect-refuel-disconnect operations, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Mirrsen Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 You know, I just remembered something I really wanted this mod to have when I was mucking about on the Mun.You have the deployable struts, and the pipes, but I think there's one more thing. Tow cable. I don't know if pipe can function like that, but I'd really like to see either a mini-winch (with like 10m range) that can be deployed via container, or a tow cable connector that would attach and link like a pipe, but would function as a winch at rest - i.e. the length it is deployed at would be the rest length, and the craft would then be linked, but not docked, allowing winchless but manned rovers/rockets to tow things like debris or trailers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forsaken1111 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 You know, I just remembered something I really wanted this mod to have when I was mucking about on the Mun.You have the deployable struts, and the pipes, but I think there's one more thing. Tow cable. I don't know if pipe can function like that, but I'd really like to see either a mini-winch (with like 10m range) that can be deployed via container, or a tow cable connector that would attach and link like a pipe, but would function as a winch at rest - i.e. the length it is deployed at would be the rest length, and the craft would then be linked, but not docked, allowing winchless but manned rovers/rockets to tow things like debris or trailers.What would this tow cable do that the existing winches don't currently do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apoch1999 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Love this MOD thanks:)how did you get them so well aligned taht you could connect them like that with that straight piece? or am i not seeing it right and thats a pipe with the ends inside the recesses? and by the way, this is about teh same slope i have my mun base on and it explodes..and explodes every ship near it as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Mirrsen Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 What would this tow cable do that the existing winches don't currently do?Be container-portable and EVA-placeable. Contrary to popular belief, it isn't really practical to install a winch on every craft you send into space. I am personally quite irritated by the huge size of the winch GUI, and using context menus isn't always easy. So you might end up in a situation where you need a tow cable, but have no winch. However, there is hardly ever a reason not to have a container or two, especially on manned missions. These hold a variety of bits and bobs for repair, resource transfer, and the occasional rocketbike assembly. Having a few cable anchors present is a more lightweight alternative to a full winch, and requires no power - ultimately allowing, for instance, a Kerbal, to pull something, either in space or on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazael Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Hi apoch1999 My Duna base is on a slope but I see no real issues.The pipes enable transfer of all materials: Oxidiser,Fuel,Electricity,Ore,Kethane,Metal etc etc.I use the KAS strut end connectors to stabilise the whole base. You can see these attaching KAS ground pylons (above the KAS pipes) and also connect all the landed bases.This is important as when you accelerate time the base doesn't jump about or explode.The Home 2 Hub airlocks are a bitch to align but they are all locked together. Everything you see in the picture (except vehicles) is docked as one single base.There are about 9 landed units in the above picture dragged together using the crane. Edited October 14, 2013 by Azazael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratzap Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 There are still some very weird things going on with pylons and pipes. I detached an unused pipe end from part of my base yesterday to use on a pylon 2 steps away and the piece I took it off sank into the ground then exploded.The flat base I have is immune to warp problems without the struts, they look like a good idea but the bug needs to be dealt with and they add to the part count again (your time clock is showing yellow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazael Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) There are still some very weird things going on with pylons and pipesOk but I have >40 pipe ends and ~20 pylons , >30 strut end connectors and have no issues.Part count on Duna =700. I can take the picture again with accelerated time if you like (whats the yellow time clock mean?) Edited October 14, 2013 by Azazael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhaosCorp Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I been trying to tell yall...it matters how the connectors face each other....I have stuff on the moon connected by pipes (and each craft connected to ground with struts) and its on a good slope...no issues. Testing on Kerbin by KSC (perfectly flat) and anything more than 45deg angle in the way the connectors face each other and there are issues.Please, do not take my word for it, test these things yourself =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt12120 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) I downloaded the newest version of KAS last night to use the pipes/pylons on Minmus (very flat) with a Kethane miner I have up there. I flew up a supply ship full of parts, then a tank, and got to work hooking it all up. I used 3-4 pylons, 1 every 25m or so, and when I linked the final pipe, the empty tank and a few of the pylons started to float away and mangle up (see Ratzap's pictures from 10 or so pages ago). Luckily I saved so no real damage was done, but for some reason I am unable to accomplish my goal. I did try to strut the tank and miner to their nearest pylon (no help) and also changed the pipeline so it wasn't a straight line, which also didn't work. I had some pretty ambitious plans to build a mega-refinery on Minmus, hopefully someone can help! Also of note: I was connecting the pipe fittings to the upper/diagonal portion of the pylon, not the part near/perpendicular to the ground. Can add photos when I get off work. Thanks Edited October 14, 2013 by xt12120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KospY Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 The biggest bug in terms of people repeatedly complaining (filling the thread up with junk) is the old one from 0.3 where you grab something but cannot attach until a scene change is made either via save/load or the tracking station.Fix that one and 90% of the repeat noise posts will go away.I agree If I get time I will maybe try to release another fix for this.KospY,I was wonder if you have given any thought about the Tech Tree in the coming update 0.22? KAS in Career Mode would be awesome I think Majiir will take care of this. Basic things will be to link KAS parts to tech nodes and remove unlocked part from the container editor.Love this MOD thanks:)Impressive base ! And it's good to know that you didn't have any issues Be container-portable and EVA-placeable. Contrary to popular belief, it isn't really practical to install a winch on every craft you send into space. I am personally quite irritated by the huge size of the winch GUI, and using context menus isn't always easy. So you might end up in a situation where you need a tow cable, but have no winch. However, there is hardly ever a reason not to have a container or two, especially on manned missions. These hold a variety of bits and bobs for repair, resource transfer, and the occasional rocketbike assembly. Having a few cable anchors present is a more lightweight alternative to a full winch, and requires no power - ultimately allowing, for instance, a Kerbal, to pull something, either in space or on the ground.About this, here is what I thought : https://github.com/KospY/KAS/issues/52I been trying to tell yall...it matters how the connectors face each other....I have stuff on the moon connected by pipes (and each craft connected to ground with struts) and its on a good slope...no issues. Testing on Kerbin by KSC (perfectly flat) and anything more than 45deg angle in the way the connectors face each other and there are issues.Please, do not take my word for it, test these things yourself =)It's really an interesting fact. Can people how get issues with pipes confirm this ?I downloaded the newest version of KAS last night to use the pipes/pylons on Minmus (very flat) with a Kethane miner I have up there. I flew up a supply ship full of parts, then a tank, and got to work hooking it all up. I used 3-4 pylons, 1 every 25m or so, and when I linked the final pipe, the empty tank and a few of the pylons started to float away and mangle up (see Ratzap's pictures from 10 or so pages ago). Luckily I saved so no real damage was done, but for some reason I am unable to accomplish my goal. I did try to strut the tank and miner to their nearest pylon (no help) and also changed the pipeline so it wasn't a straight line, which also didn't work. I had some pretty ambitious plans to build a mega-refinery on Minmus, hopefully someone can help! Also of note: I was connecting the pipe fittings to the upper/diagonal portion of the pylon, not the part near/perpendicular to the ground. Can add photos when I get off work. ThanksPhotos will be nice. Also, if you didn't use too many mods, I will be interested by the save game too. A easly reproductible issue on a save can really help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratzap Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 My connectors are all within 15 degrees of right angles both flat and slope base except on the slope where they are turned by the slope. Pylons sit on the ground as if it were level which forces tension into the pipes. How can you connect craft to the ground with struts? The KAS struts function only on the same craft, you can tie a base together with them but not the base or ships to each other. And if high pipe angles are causing issues that needs to be addressed.The yellow time clock means the game is artificially slowing time down in order to get a better frame rate due to the high part count. When you go from yellow to red bad things can happen and the framerate is awful. I'm trying to avoid using struts or anything unnecessary to keep the part count down enough so that a large base doesn't turn into a lag fest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt12120 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Photos will be nice. Also, if you didn't use too many mods, I will be interested by the save game too. A easly reproductible issue on a save can really help.Sure. I'll edit this post with screens in about 2 hours. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Mirrsen Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Ships connected by pipe are one craft as far as the game is concerned, so they can be strutted together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leberschnitzel Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 KAS Killed Bill! (ok, maybe it was me because I logged out with him having that thing on his back)He is in outer space, floating near my station with an strut point on his back and I can't drop it or anything, It's just there hindering his jetpack movement any Idea on how to rescue him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketScientist Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Great mod I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewelShisen Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I been trying to tell yall...it matters how the connectors face each other....I have stuff on the moon connected by pipes (and each craft connected to ground with struts) and its on a good slope...no issues. Testing on Kerbin by KSC (perfectly flat) and anything more than 45deg angle in the way the connectors face each other and there are issues.Please, do not take my word for it, test these things yourself =)Tried it. Made a 'base with 20+ pipes with everything from a straight line to the max bend. No issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimJim Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Working on a small base on the Mun -- three modules, the actual base core with habitat and life support, a kethane refiner, and a powerplant. Very slight slope (in the bottom of a crater). Pipes running from vessels to pylons, with pipe connectors being placed on the vertical sides of the pylons. One pylon is even doing double-duty as a comm array. No issues at this time, everything working beautifully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 KAS Killed Bill! (ok, maybe it was me because I logged out with him having that thing on his back)He is in outer space, floating near my station with an strut point on his back and I can't drop it or anything, It's just there hindering his jetpack movement any Idea on how to rescue him?It's not hindering his movement. Create a quicksave, and then reload that quicksave. You may have to load it again but I don't think I ever have. You'll magically regain control of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl0ryh0und Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) KAS Killed Bill! (ok, maybe it was me because I logged out with him having that thing on his back)He is in outer space, floating near my station with an strut point on his back and I can't drop it or anything, It's just there hindering his jetpack movement <snip image>any Idea on how to rescue him?I have been having the same problem, no amount of loading reloading rebooting saves them. they are stuck in some sort of frozen animated state.. it is way worse on a planet, after a little while the kerbal will literally impact the planet and die.I have tried removing all mods with the exception of Kethane, Navyfishs' docking aide, kerbal engineer redux and KAS 4.1 I've just updated to 4.2 so let me see if that fixes it.Success!! I saved my stranded Kerbal.. time will tell if this is permanently fixed in KAS 4.2 Edited October 15, 2013 by gl0ryh0und Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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