[1.0.2] NovaPunch 2.09. - May 6th - 1.0 Compatibility Update

[Tiberion]

so I ran the numbers on the fuel tanks, have to scroll over to column Q, R, and S. Col. S shows the difference between the current costs in E and those based on totalFuelCost/0.23 - seems reasonable so I can probably make that change.

I'll have to ponder about the engines and boosters, they're scaled off of thrust alone and the costs seemed to be alright, I was worried about cranking them to far up and make rockets too expensive.

[biohazard15]

I'll have to ponder about the engines and boosters, they're scaled off of thrust alone and the costs seemed to be alright, I was worried about cranking them to far up and make rockets too expensive.

Thing is, I didn't use any formulas (except 23% for fuel tanks), I did my balancing purely with gameplay in mind I've used stock and KW prices as reference, and tried to balance NP to fit neatly with these.

My ideas about engine balance were:

- Engines are balanced around thrust, Isp, weight and profile

- Low-profile means higher cost (Berthas and Mothers)

- Low Isp means cost reduction, if applicable (I referred to KW here - they refused to switch to 0.24 "320-360" formula for 1st stage engines, and I like that).

- Big mass means cost reduction, again. With previous point in mind, you can see why NP 3.75m engines are kinda cheap when compared to NASA engines; but, they fall in-between KW engines just fine.

- LFBs were scaled against NASA LFB, with thrust and fuel quantity in mind.

- ASRBs are cheaper than KW counterparts if you compare their thrust; after 2 weeks of playing with both mods I feel that their cost should be raised, at least for large versions.

- Bearcat 5x: direct competitor to Griffon Century (DAT BASS! NP really needs sound overhaul), scaled accordingly (GC is 55K$ and 11KN thrust; B5X is 50K$ and 10KN thrust).

Other stuff:

- Monoprop tanks were balanced against KW tanks (I couldn't get LF\OX-like formula for them, so I kinda improvised here)

- Fairings: bulkheads are rather expensive, but walls and noses are cheap and scaled according to their size

- Nosecones and winglets: I gave them stock-like price

- Unique parts (stack chutes, adapters, HMX nosecones, some other stuff): I tried to give them gameplay-wise cost (not too cheap, but not too expensive; they're meant to be used in advanced designs, which are expensive by definition)

[Qberticus]

awesome, I'm so happy that this is updated.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Qberticus

[ctbram]

Anyone experiencing problems with NP 2.6 and Hotrockets v7.24_Nazari?

I find the firt engine I get in career (k2-x) has it's flame on all the time. similar to the kw rocketry bug when it was first released. If anyone is working on a patch or cfg please post a like.

[Tiberion]

I think the hotrockets config for NP is out of date; its for 2 versions ago before I added the new engines and used the new FX.

biohazard, I'm gonna plugin your engine/booster numbers and see how they look and work from them probably. Didnt mess with them today.

[Misucat]

Anyone experiencing problems with NP 2.6 and Hotrockets v7.24_Nazari?

I find the firt engine I get in career (k2-x) has it's flame on all the time. similar to the kw rocketry bug when it was first released. If anyone is working on a patch or cfg please post a like.

KSP 0.24.2 32bits: Yes I have a similar issue. And the booster (KMX Minibooster) do not rest on the launcher with FAR.

[Tiberion]

Yeah the issue is going to occur in any version because hotrockets isn't configured to handle the new engines.

Can you explain in more detail what you mean about the MiniBooster and FAR? I haven't done anything special to be FAR compatible aside from naming fairings and nosecones properly (If that is even a thing anymore)

[Misucat]

Yeah the issue is going to occur in any version because hotrockets isn't configured to handle the new engines.

Can you explain in more detail what you mean about the MiniBooster and FAR? I haven't done anything special to be FAR compatible aside from naming fairings and nosecones properly (If that is even a thing anymore)

Sorry it's my fault. During my test, I haven't use aerodynamics on the boosters (nosecone). With this feature, the boosters works perfectly with FAR

I love NovaPunch, thanks you for this great work

[GoldForest]

Hey Tiberion, any 6.25 or 7.5 sized parts in planning? Wondering if you have a Novapunch Nova in the planning.

[Vahal]

Finally. I will make Launchpad collapse again

[Tiberion]

Hey Tiberion, any 6.25 or 7.5 sized parts in planning? Wondering if you have a Novapunch Nova in the planning.

Well people keep asking and you're making me want to try it out.

I'm probably gonna start with a test of a 6.25m core for the K-1 rocket - that will actually make it more accurate with the top "n1" stage ending at 2.5m instead of 1.25m (I'll leave the small top stage, though, so you can make smaller rockets still)

[GiantTank]

Well people keep asking and you're making me want to try it out.

I'm probably gonna start with a test of a 6.25m core for the K-1 rocket - that will actually make it more accurate with the top "n1" stage ending at 2.5m instead of 1.25m (I'll leave the small top stage, though, so you can make smaller rockets still)

I am excited! Time to start planning jebs 15th funeral...

[AntiMatter001]

aaaaaaaaand this just crashed my 64-bit game. i'm very certain it's due to lack of memory not the mod. anyway i'm glad there is an update. now to do crazy stuff... like always...

posibly with jeb being the cause...

after i get this working so many mods

[biohazard15]

Well people keep asking and you're making me want to try it out.

I'm probably gonna start with a test of a 6.25m core for the K-1 rocket - that will actually make it more accurate with the top "n1" stage ending at 2.5m instead of 1.25m (I'll leave the small top stage, though, so you can make smaller rockets still)

That means new low-profile Mega Mother, I guess? One that will melt launchpad (and your PC) with its exhaust?

Funny thing, I've never used 5m engines since I've started new career with NEAR and DRE. They just too powerful for payloads less than 100+ tons (FAR\NEAR requires a lot less TWR to achieve orbit, and you don't want high surface TWR with these two mods)

[wasmic]

That means new low-profile Mega Mother, I guess? One that will melt launchpad (and your PC) with its exhaust?

Funny thing, I've never used 5m engines since I've started new career with NEAR and DRE. They just too powerful for payloads less than 100+ tons (FAR\NEAR requires a lot less TWR to achieve orbit, and you don't want high surface TWR with these two mods)

That's exactly the same problem that I've been running into. I don't have any payloads that are big enough. I might whip up a ModuleManager config that cuts all launch engines to 75 % thrust while leaving orbital engines untouched. That is, if I can figure out the ModuleManager syntax.

[biohazard15]

That's exactly the same problem that I've been running into. I don't have any payloads that are big enough. I might whip up a ModuleManager config that cuts all launch engines to 75 % thrust while leaving orbital engines untouched. That is, if I can figure out the ModuleManager syntax.

That would be something like

@PART[NP_lfe_5m_Bearcat5x]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines]
	{
		%maxThrust = 7500
	}
}

Note that new engines (like AHL) use ModuleEnginesFX instead of ModuleEngines.

[Tiberion]

Well sure, if you're using any FAR-type business you'll need to nerf things. If you roll up a MM config for that I'll link it in the OP

Btw I think there is also MM syntax to multiply so you could multiply maxthrust x 0.75, though you'll have ot look that up.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Tiberion

[wasmic]

Well sure, if you're using any FAR-type business you'll need to nerf things. If you roll up a MM config for that I'll link it in the OP

Btw I think there is also MM syntax to multiply so you could multiply maxthrust x 0.75, though you'll have ot look that up.

There is. I'm thinking, though: is there some way to target all engines with a vac ISP below, say 370 seconds? That would make it much easier and faster.

[biohazard15]

Be careful, though: you may easily break balance if you change only thrust; it might be better to tweak thrust in VAB for every launch, and design a wide lineup of launchers for every payload.

One area where 5m parts need to be used with FAR\NEAR: wide-body launchers.

There is a cut-off example of 5m launcher, payload: 30t station module destined to 300 km orbit.

That is a very interesting design, indeed. First stage (large 5m tank + 5m K2X) has Dv of 3200 m\s, and is used for lift and partial circularizing (You need about 3500 m\s to achieve stable orbit with NEAR). It also has sepratrons for safe decoupling. Second stage ("smart" design with probe core) is used to finish orbit and to rendezvous maneuvers.

And now for something completely different: Atlas!

The payload is Spica from Tantares mod. Connect radial decouplers and lowest fuel tank with fuel duct, and drop booster engines at around 1200 m\s.

[Tiberion]

Man I have got to go back and spec-map that engine sometime.

Edit: I just posted a new thread - I am requesting artists to create the new logos for the Agencies added in the last update. If I choose your logo you get to choose a new part or model for me to make (or other things, more details in the thread) so if drawing/artwork is your thing, please head over there.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Tiberion

[biohazard15]

These KM Special parts are amazing.

Atlas, now 100% more Atlas-y!

Who needs FASA, anyway?

Edited August 13, 2014 by biohazard15

[Tiberion]

Heh once upon a time Novapunch had decoupler shrouds, though they didn't function like that. Something to put on the list I guess.

Also.. 1.875m upper stage? used to have an adapter to that too, who is using that diameter again?

And you pushed my message about the logo request off the last page

[biohazard15]

Heh once upon a time Novapunch had decoupler shrouds, though they didn't function like that. Something to put on the list I guess.

Also.. 1.875m upper stage? used to have an adapter to that too, who is using that diameter again?

It's not a decoupler shroud, the only decoupler used is your 2.5m

It's actually a fairly simple construction:

The part between SAS and decoupler is a KM end cap for KM bays and shrouds, it got two nodes on top (one for bay\shroud, one for payload).

First node is used for engine, second - for decoupler.

Boosters is made of KM storage shrouds, SLS-125 and SL-55 decouplers (not used as decouplers). Fuel ducts run from central LFT to SL-55.

BTW, I never used any decoupler shrouds - I find them kinda useless, since most engines have autofairings anyway. Besides, they can be tricky to place.

And these are not 1.875m parts - Spica is 1.25m except engine block, which is slightly larger, but designed for 1.25m size.

And you pushed my message about the logo request off the last page

Sorry

[Tiberion]

So a wave of nostalgia hit me today as I was browsing old threads for info on the logo stuff.

This is particular - It's a screenshot from Wobbly Rockets, and you can probably tell Novapunch still has a lot of that feeling to it.

it made me ponder what state we had left that M-50 engine in. I only vaguely remember why we swapped it out and started using the current "Bearcat" that's in the 250, tri-nozzle and 5x engines.

It turns out that frizzank had did an awesome re-texture on it, but the model had some issues; mostly that Sundaypunch had used a 12-sided cylinder as the base, which was not enough so it had flat faces around the outside. Also the inside had no throat, just a cone-ish section.

So, I fixed it:

Pondering replacing that "old" bearcat engine that is in biohazard's screenshots with this one - its the "heavy lift" 1.25m engine, which is what the M-50 was too. I really dislike that engine now and I am not sure a new texture could save it.

Same stats. Probably a new part name to give people time to remove the old engine from craft files.

Thoughts?

[sp1989]

So a wave of nostalgia hit me today as I was browsing old threads for info on the logo stuff.

This is particular - It's a screenshot from Wobbly Rockets, and you can probably tell Novapunch still has a lot of that feeling to it.

it made me ponder what state we had left that M-50 engine in. I only vaguely remember why we swapped it out and started using the current "Bearcat" that's in the 250, tri-nozzle and 5x engines.

It turns out that frizzank had did an awesome re-texture on it, but the model had some issues; mostly that Sundaypunch had used a 12-sided cylinder as the base, which was not enough so it had flat faces around the outside. Also the inside had no throat, just a cone-ish section.

So, I fixed it:

http://i.imgur.com/yzpyq1n.png

Pondering replacing that "old" bearcat engine that is in biohazard's screenshots with this one - its the "heavy lift" 1.25m engine, which is what the M-50 was too. I really dislike that engine now and I am not sure a new texture could save it.

Same stats. Probably a new part name to give people time to remove the old engine from craft files.

Thoughts?

Why not have both?