[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Lanfranc]

So, what is the difference between the Alcubierre drive and the Bergenholm from the Lensmen series? They seem to have basically the same effect on velocity; particularly in that they both return your velocity to it's original state when you shut the drive off.

They're quite different, actually. The Bergenholm drive works by removing the ship's intertia and thus the physical obstacles to accelerating to light speed. The Alcubierre is more complicated, but as I understand the principles, it creates a warp bubble in space that can move along with the ship inside it. This allows travel at FTL because the ship itself does not move – the whole area of space that contains the ship moves, and space itself is not subject to general relativity.

[Nobody_1707]

Ooh, shiny. So it basically has the same end result as the Bergenholm but without the niggling little details like: how do chemical reactions happen with no inertia, or where does the excess energy go?

[Stealthyboy]

Gotta say, I love the way these parts look, unfortunately the more sci-fi elements of this pack aren't to my own personal taste.

However, I do absolutely LOVE the visuals of the deployable radiators, and have to add them to my game. Would they still work as a stand-alone part?

[SeventhArchitect]

Did you also try turning on and off the resource flow before you filled up the resource bars with hyperedit? The thermal power bar really has nothing to do with the functioning of the thermal rockets, it's all handled through the resource manager which is capable of detecting supply and demand even when the thermal power bar is totally empty.

I have noticed as well that there have been a number of bug reports from people using mods like Hyperedit and TAC Fuel Balancer, basically those mods that fiddle with resource totals quite aggressively.

Had you made any other changes to your ship using hyperedit earlier in the flight?

I had not used Hyperedit before at all until the need arose to fix the break with the machines.

To correct a mistake, I was using hybrid thermal jets, not the thermal nozzles.

To be specific, I'll repeat myself, I tried turning on and back on all the resource flows. didn't work.

The Triton ship had contacted Jool's lower atmosphere (where the "ground" is), therefore, he is no longer in flight. The problem had occurred a while back, and I only brought it up, because (If I remember correctly) this is jsut about the second time this happened. It might be a break with warping time at 100,000x for extended periods, because that might make it miss a packet upon checking the ship's entirety for AM flow, and going that fast, it might drain the thermal power completely, and won't continue to produce anymore because it might be stuck on thinking that it is still a full tank.

Seems very logical.

[SeventhArchitect]

BTW, the line of good ships, the Triton, Quardide, and the Octis. Also, when I set the Hybrid Jets to LFO fuel, and power them up to half thrust, they sever themselves from the ship. This is something that I realize will NOT be fixable. Don't see what I could use for, except as an afterburner. But an afterburner that is weaker than regular liquidfuel on it's own. An afterburner that detaches itself!

[Fractal_UK]

Gotta say, I love the way these parts look, unfortunately the more sci-fi elements of this pack aren't to my own personal taste.

However, I do absolutely LOVE the visuals of the deployable radiators, and have to add them to my game. Would they still work as a stand-alone part?

Yes, they still work, though there won't be a huge amount of point to them without at least some of the other parts from the pack. I've modded the stock solar panels to generate some heat but most of the radiators are pretty large and pretty potent so they won't pose much of a risk of overheating anything. The nuclear reactors do put out quite a bit of heat though and the standard versions are all influenced by real nuclear reactors that are either works in progress or have really been tested, albeit never flown.

If you want a realistic game, I'd say just delete the antimatter parts, the warp drive and the DT Vista. Then you could tone down the radiator areas and temperatures in the cfg a file to make for a bit more of a challenge.

I had not used Hyperedit before at all until the need arose to fix the break with the machines.

It's just strange because changing the resource values shouldn't actually change much internally.

I did today fix a bug in the resource manager but I don't know if this bug could have caused the problem you mentioned, I think it's possible though. I'll perform some "stress tests" at high time warp speeds for long periods and see if everything continues to work as it should.

If we build ourselves a small aircraft with a thermal jet on the back, how are we supposed to be able to upgrade them?

Try putting a junior docking port or something on the plane, then you can connect it to a science lab or a computer core. A lot of people also like to use KAS for this.

[Lanfranc]

Ooh, shiny. So it basically has the same end result as the Bergenholm but without the niggling little details like: how do chemical reactions happen with no inertia, or where does the excess energy go?

More or less, yeah. Of course, the Alcubierre drive has lots of problems of its own, such as unfeasably high energy requirements, and the need for matter with negative energy density (or "exotic matter".) But it's at least theoretically possible that it could work.

[Cairan]

OK, don't know if this has been reported, but I tried this mod... Great idea, solid grounds, kudos for that.

That being said, I've had an issue which required me to remove the mod, at least temporarly. On an existing save game, with 50 flights in progress, I could no longer switch either to the pad or to a vessel currently in flight. The game would just hang at the black loading screen. I started a new savegame, which resolved my issue, or so I thought... I put up my keosync relay sats up, as I use RemoteTech (v1) and MechJeb 2. After putting up my second laboratory up at my research space station, it crashed, and whenever I tried to launch a new high-parts count vessel, it would bug out just like with my previous save game.

I removed the mod, and I can once again access my 50+ vessels savegame.

For information, I use the following mods: RomFarer's Lazor Mod, Kerb chatter, Mechjeb 2, Remotetech 1, Alarmclock and Crew Manifest. I haven't tried to selectively remove the other mods yet as I wanted first to check out if anyone has had the same issues.

On another related issue, I know you are currently accepting comments on the waste heat issue. I wouldn't implement heat generation on vessels which are not carrying parts from your mod. I was surprised to see that waste heat was getting generated on my small relay microsats... those would normally just radiate heat away in space passively using the structures and sometimes moving louvers on the electronic boxes...

[forsaken1111]

I agree, radiators should not be the ONLY way to lose waste heat. There should be a constant slow loss of waste heat to space regardless of what is on a vessel, possibly modified by overall sun exposure.

Oh that would be neat... waste heat generated by exposure to the sun depending on the distance to the sun.

[SeventhArchitect]

I agree, radiators should not be the ONLY way to lose waste heat. There should be a constant slow loss of waste heat to space regardless of what is on a vessel, possibly modified by overall sun exposure.

Oh that would be neat... waste heat generated by exposure to the sun depending on the distance to the sun.

That already sounds a bit on the annoying side, bud. Thermal Nozzle. The name says it. And true, you'd lose a LOT of wasteheat when using one, you're also using up your own fuel.

[Donziboy2]

2 things ive found.

1. Even with 4 receivers taking in hundreds of MW the generator is still making 1MW to power my stupid core?

2. The large receivers dont close if you disable them when open.... And will at times continue to receive power.

[Fractal_UK]

OK, don't know if this has been reported, but I tried this mod... Great idea, solid grounds, kudos for that.

That being said, I've had an issue which required me to remove the mod, at least temporarly. On an existing save game, with 50 flights in progress, I could no longer switch either to the pad or to a vessel currently in flight. The game would just hang at the black loading screen. I started a new savegame, which resolved my issue, or so I thought... I put up my keosync relay sats up, as I use RemoteTech (v1) and MechJeb 2. After putting up my second laboratory up at my research space station, it crashed, and whenever I tried to launch a new high-parts count vessel, it would bug out just like with my previous save game.

I removed the mod, and I can once again access my 50+ vessels savegame.

For information, I use the following mods: RomFarer's Lazor Mod, Kerb chatter, Mechjeb 2, Remotetech 1, Alarmclock and Crew Manifest. I haven't tried to selectively remove the other mods yet as I wanted first to check out if anyone has had the same issues.

I've never experienced any issue like this and I've racked up a ridiculous number of hours during development of this. It could be an incompatability with other mods: for reference, all my development work tends to be done with MechJeb, KAS and Kethane installed so these are the mods where you're likely to be safest. I've never used the other mods on your list with this though, so I can't speak to any compatability problems with those.

Best thing to do is try to make the black loading screen problem happen again, then close the game down and look at your KSP.log file. There may be some interesting Exceptions recorded in there that could hint at the cause.

On another related issue, I know you are currently accepting comments on the waste heat issue. I wouldn't implement heat generation on vessels which are not carrying parts from your mod. I was surprised to see that waste heat was getting generated on my small relay microsats... those would normally just radiate heat away in space passively using the structures and sometimes moving louvers on the electronic boxes...

You'll see that the static solar panels and the RTGs don't produce any waste heat, for now I think these are too small to be worthy of modelling. The smaller deployable solar satellites generate a decent enough amount of power though so these you'd expect to have some kind of special section of the structure designed for heat radiation, at least. A few gigantors and deployable radiators start to seem entirely reasonable.

I could make it apply to my parts only but I don't really want to give the impression that heat rejection is only important when you put nuclear reactors in space. The ISS has effectively arrays of deployable radiators and they're only for dissipating ~70kW.

In my opinion, heat rejection is one of the biggest features missing from the stock game. It shouldn't be an optional extra, it should be an integral part of space travel. I might add some config file option for turning the feature off completely though.

I agree, radiators should not be the ONLY way to lose waste heat. There should be a constant slow loss of waste heat to space regardless of what is on a vessel, possibly modified by overall sun exposure.

I could add this but I really don't see the point. If I added radiation to every part, it would just lead to annoying additional information clutter telling you that a part not designed to radiate heat was radiating a trivial amount of heat and you'd still have to add radiators, the only difference would be that the information about the heat dissipation would be less straightforward and concise.

The only parts I'm hugely interested in adding some kind of radiator capacity to are cargo bay door parts from such as B9. I'd need to check out various licensing implications before even thinking about doing anything like this but I'd love to see that at some stage. The space shuttle's radiators were located on the insides of the cargo bay doors - that is why pictures of the shuttle in orbit always picture it with the cargo bay doors open.

1. Even with 4 receivers taking in hundreds of MW the generator is still making 1MW to power my stupid core?

Is there a problem with turning the generator off? Both generators and microwave receivers will just check if there is unfilled demand for resources when they are executed, it's very tough to control which source the power is actually coming from without just turning un-needed power sources off.

The large receivers dont close if you disable them when open.... And will at times continue to receive power.

I think I know why this is but I need to do some tests.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Fractal_UK

[nhnifong]

I'm operating on an old version of this mod, But I just want to say thank you Fractal_UK this is awesome

I've spent the past 30 launches or so preparing a gigantic lander with 8 science labs and all it's supporting life support and kethane equipment for Eeloo. The lander itself was launched in 5 parts, and it's interplanetary propulsion system was launched in three parts. I'm going to get a heap of science from this I hope!

[Scooter McCootertang]

Sorry this might be a stupid question, but I can not for the life of me figure out how to upgrade parts. I have sent Laboratories off to gather science and I plenty to upgrade parts. I transferred the science, but I have no idea where to go to upgrade my stuff?? Please help me out

[Fractal_UK]

I'm operating on an old version of this mod, But I just want to say thank you Fractal_UK this is awesome

I've spent the past 30 launches or so preparing a gigantic lander with 8 science labs and all it's supporting life support and kethane equipment for Eeloo. The lander itself was launched in 5 parts, and it's interplanetary propulsion system was launched in three parts. I'm going to get a heap of science from this I hope!

Cheers. Eeloo is a great destination for developing science infrastructure, good luck with the mission!

---

Oh and by the way, just wanted to share a cool little imagine I produced during development. When I was saying to be careful of antimatter explosions, well, I meant it

Goodbye Kerbal Space Centre and thanks for all the rockets!

[Fractal_UK]

Sorry this might be a stupid question, but I can not for the life of me figure out how to upgrade parts. I have sent Laboratories off to gather science and I plenty to upgrade parts. I transferred the science, but I have no idea where to go to upgrade my stuff?? Please help me out

The parts that you can upgrade have a "Retrofit" button, they should also show you how much science you have available and how much you need to upgrade the part. Once you have enough, just click the "Retrofit" button and your part will upgrade.

[Donziboy2]

AM Torpedo here we come!!!!!!

[Conti]

The large receivers dont close if you disable them when open.... And will at times continue to receive power.

I think I know why this is but I need to do some tests.

I told you about this the other day on IRC, I already submitted the pull request with the bugfix.

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/pull/3

[Fractal_UK]

I told you about this the other day on IRC, I already submitted the pull request with the bugfix.

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/pull/3

Yes but I haven't tested the fix yet. I'm sure it will work but I just want to run a couple of tests before I write it off as officially resolved.

[Conti]

They're quite different, actually. The Bergenholm drive works by removing the ship's intertia and thus the physical obstacles to accelerating to light speed. The Alcubierre is more complicated, but as I understand the principles, it creates a warp bubble in space that can move along with the ship inside it. This allows travel at FTL because the ship itself does not move – the whole area of space that contains the ship moves, and space itself is not subject to general relativity.

To refine your Alcubierre explanation slightly it is not that it moves the area of space that contains the ship, it is that it compresses the spacetime in front of the ship and expands the spacetime behind it. Nothing is actually in motion at all...

Interesting factoid: In 2012 a NASA laboratory announced that they have constructed an interferometer that they claim will detect the spatial distortions produced by the expanding and contracting spacetime of the Alcubierre metric. If this works as they claim, and they do detect these distortions... Talk about proof of intelligent extraterrestrial life! It would be amazing.

[Nobody_1707]

Not necessarily, there could be naturally occurring distortions. All that it would prove is that such distortions are possible, which would still be a pretty big find.

[Scotius]

As far as i understand, this interferometer works in microscale. White's team is using it to check if they produce warp bubbles in their experiments at all. As for proof of E.T.s using Alcubierre drive or it's gravimetric derivative...have you ever seen an UFO?

[Gaius]

As far as i understand, this interferometer works in microscale. White's team is using it to check if they produce warp bubbles in their experiments at all. As for proof of E.T.s using Alcubierre drive or it's gravimetric derivative...have you ever seen an UFO?

That would only prove that weather balloons have exotic matter in them.

[pina_coladas]

So what's the deal with the thermal turbojet? It's weak and it sucks intakeair/intakeatm super fast. Is that how it's supposed to be? I love the animation and the concept but it doesn't seem worth using.

Also, I tried plugging in some modules into b9 parts to make a sleek looking nuclear turbojet and it did not work well at all. I modified that big honking fuselage air intake piece, turned a large quad-engine adapter piece into a 2.5m nuclear reactor and made another piece into a generator. The results were not good, partially because I don't understand how KSP air intakes work at all. Has anyone else done this?

[Tharios]

I was going to go into this big thing about how a warp drive would actually work, or rather not work...but it's not germane to the purpose of the thread.

Lovin' the mod Fractal, good work from you and ZZZ both.