[WIP] Nert's Dev Thread - Current: various updates

[Gryphorim]

@Nertea, will you be adding parts in the sizes of the   Making History parts? (ie: 1.85m and 5m) 

It seems like there would be room for a few more adapter plates for tri-hex and octo-girders, in NF Construction, and some thrust plates.

Adding new propulsive or power parts would probably be too massive an undertaking, but the above collection of adapter plates, and maybe a few tankage options (maybe a single option, with adjustable length (similar to the high end fusion and AM engines) would offer a "low hanging fruit" option.

[AmpCat]

Nertea does have 5m parts, and even 7.5m now.. I forget which mod they're in. I don't think they're in the FFT though. I believe the 5m and 7.5m parts are in a released mod.

A lot of Nertea's engines have a 'compact' model option, like the new Making History engines, which allows them to be fit easily on smaller parts, like 1.85m. In fact, I think you'll find most of Nertea's engines will fit on a 1.85m part.

Edit:

Personally, I'd like to see @Nertea pull some of the Far Future stuff into simpler versions that don't run into the heat problems of that mod, but give further depth to the nuclear tech tree. I know it would be a paradigm shift, since a lot of the Far Future engines rely on massive thermal requirements, which is the root of the problem with KSP's thermal bug, but maybe there's a clever way to make it work out.

Edited April 22, 2018 by AmpCat

[theonegalen]

9 hours ago, AmpCat said:

Nertea does have 5m parts, and even 7.5m now.. I forget which mod they're in. I don't think they're in the FFT though. I believe the 5m and 7.5m parts are in a released mod.

Near Future Launchers, IIRC.

[JadeOfMaar]

Near Future Launch Vehicles

[adsii1970]

11 hours ago, AmpCat said:

Nertea does have 5m parts, and even 7.5m now.. I forget which mod they're in. I don't think they're in the FFT though. I believe the 5m and 7.5m parts are in a released mod.

A lot of Nertea's engines have a 'compact' model option, like the new Making History engines, which allows them to be fit easily on smaller parts, like 1.85m. In fact, I think you'll find most of Nertea's engines will fit on a 1.85m part.

Edit:

Personally, I'd like to see @Nertea pull some of the Far Future stuff into simpler versions that don't run into the heat problems of that mod, but give further depth to the nuclear tech tree. I know it would be a paradigm shift, since a lot of the Far Future engines rely on massive thermal requirements, which is the root of the problem with KSP's thermal bug, but maybe there's a clever way to make it work out.

This is off the top of my head...

Parts that have an active cooling role rather than the passive role of radiators? Radiators use a fluid base to transfer heat to panels, where the liquid is cooled and recirculated to draw out more heat. What about something that would compress the liquid (super cold), then force pump it through at a high pressure. Yes, you'd still have to have radiators, but with the compression and pressure, you should end up with something that should be able to work in KSP...

[Gryphorim]

20 hours ago, AmpCat said:

Nertea does have 5m parts, and even 7.5m now.. I forget which mod they're in. I don't think they're in the FFT though. I believe the 5m and 7.5m parts are in a released mod.

A lot of Nertea's engines have a 'compact' model option, like the new Making History engines, which allows them to be fit easily on smaller parts, like 1.85m. In fact, I think you'll find most of Nertea's engines will fit on a 1.85m part.

Edit:

Personally, I'd like to see @Nertea pull some of the Far Future stuff into simpler versions that don't run into the heat problems of that mod, but give further depth to the nuclear tech tree. I know it would be a paradigm shift, since a lot of the Far Future engines rely on massive thermal requirements, which is the root of the problem with KSP's thermal bug, but maybe there's a clever way to make it work out.

Oh, I really like NF Launchers, they compliment the larger launch parts in Making History rather well. I am hoping to see more station parts and construction parts in 1.85m size, or at least some thematically similar adapter parts for the existing part set.

If I were to wishlist the parts I'd like to see:

-Adapter to suit 1.25-1.825 and 1.825-2.5

-Adapter to 1.825 to tri and octo trusses

-Station parts to suit 1.825 form (mostly adapter cones again, but some 1.825 habs and labs would be cool, maybe vaguely soviet styled?)

-NF Launcher part like a really big version of the mk3 passenger cabin, for BFR styled rockets, possibly tapered to 3.75. Also possibly an aerodynamic 3.75m nose with command function.

A lot of the adapters can be ad-hoc copied from existing parts, with the scale edited, but that lacks the level of polish as a bespoke part.

[Nertea]

On 4/21/2018 at 8:06 PM, Gryphorim said:

@Nertea, will you be adding parts in the sizes of the   Making History parts? (ie: 1.85m and 5m) 

It seems like there would be room for a few more adapter plates for tri-hex and octo-girders, in NF Construction, and some thrust plates.

Adding new propulsive or power parts would probably be too massive an undertaking, but the above collection of adapter plates, and maybe a few tankage options (maybe a single option, with adjustable length (similar to the high end fusion and AM engines) would offer a "low hanging fruit" option.

Super unlikely. I don't have MH and I wouldn't want to half-ass a new size class. As mentioned I have a good amount of content that will "work" with it and I'm locking off mods, not scoping new parts. 

On 4/22/2018 at 11:08 AM, adsii1970 said:

Parts that have an active cooling role rather than the passive role of radiators? Radiators use a fluid base to transfer heat to panels, where the liquid is cooled and recirculated to draw out more heat. What about something that would compress the liquid (super cold), then force pump it through at a high pressure. Yes, you'd still have to have radiators, but with the compression and pressure, you should end up with something that should be able to work in KSP...

Radiators are already active cooling parts, they automagically teleport heat out of a part. This thermal bug is related to heat system time integration more than anything else. It' solution is complex and requires thought on my part. 

 

[adsii1970]

1 minute ago, Nertea said:

Radiators are already active cooling parts, they automagically teleport heat out of a part. This thermal bug is related to heat system time integration more than anything else. It' solution is complex and requires thought on my part.

Ah, I am sorry... I was arm-chair solution finding. Feel free to ignore my suggestion. No harm, no foul.

[Nertea]

Just now, adsii1970 said:

Ah, I am sorry... I was arm-chair solution finding. Feel free to ignore my suggestion. No harm, no foul.

No problem. The active radiator core heat system is pretty solid in 1.4.2. The rest of the system remains unstable when going into high timewarp with large thermal masses holding lots of heat. If I want to use it for these engines I have to wait for squad to fix heat (unlikely), roll my own thermal system (lol), fold them into core heat (urk) or find a new way to balance things. 

[AmpCat]

8 hours ago, Nertea said:

No problem. The active radiator core heat system is pretty solid in 1.4.2. The rest of the system remains unstable when going into high timewarp with large thermal masses holding lots of heat. If I want to use it for these engines I have to wait for squad to fix heat (unlikely), roll my own thermal system (lol), fold them into core heat (urk) or find a new way to balance things. 

I'd love to help figure out a new way to balance things, or test ideas!

[FreeThinker]

 

deleted

Edited April 24, 2018 by FreeThinker

[AmpCat]

10 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

 

deleted

Maybe it's just me, but my perspective is.. it's KSP, technobabble is sufficient. 

(Yes, I know it was already deleted here. But this is the internet.. nothing is truly ever deleted.)

[Nertea]

13 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

 

deleted

I have no idea what you said, but interpolating from below, did you come in here and tell me how to make my kid again?

18 hours ago, AmpCat said:

I'd love to help figure out a new way to balance things, or test ideas!

I'll let you know once I find out how to manipulate time.

[AmpCat]

Well, the Metallic Hydrogen engine is my new best friend. Just thought I'd let you know. Though some of those newer KA engines are still pretty attractive.

I'm sure once I play with the fusion engines I'll fall in love all over again.

[FreeThinker]

10 hours ago, Nertea said:

I have no idea what you said, but interpolating from below, did you come in here and tell me how to make my kid again?

 

No I was just curious where you got the information mentioned in the part description on the beam core antimatter engine, which puzzled me, but I think I found it. It appears to have its basis on some older designs concepts which weren't known to me. I admit from a gameplay point of view your interpretation makes it more interesting.

Edited April 25, 2018 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

13 hours ago, AmpCat said:

Maybe it's just me, but my perspective is.. it's KSP, technobabble is sufficient. 

1

Well it's not just technobabble, it really contained some interesting science engineering facts about why the beam core engine needs to be long for optimal performance. It's still not fully clear to me if it's still valid design or made obsolete by more recent insights. Till now I only found indirect reference to this information but could find the original source on the Nasa website appeared to have been deleted. Perhaps because its obsolete?

Edited April 25, 2018 by FreeThinker

[Maffif]

@Nertea I don't know if this is a feasible option here, but this is my plan for heat management on the hot engines I've got in dev- to incorporate "radiator" wings/trusses of sufficient mass into each heat intensive engine and handwave a vast percentage of the heating, treating the engine-radiator-truss system as what it is: a closed system.  By bundling the mass/cost of cooling, balance is maintained (as well as the realism of keeping the radiators between the engine and anything else) at the expense of several huge pieces that necessitate off-surface assembly.

I'm just sharing a thought, I know both real life and SSPXr  have FFT shelved indefinitely

[JadeOfMaar]

@Maffif Try your engines with intense heat production and have your radiators contain parentCoolingOnly = true, and see if your engine releases all its heat into the rest of the ship after very high or highest timewarp. I've suggested this before but no one seems to have tried it to confirm it.

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleActiveRadiator
	parentCoolingOnly = true
	// etc
	...

 

[Maffif]

1 hour ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Maffif Try your engines with intense heat production and have your radiators contain parentCoolingOnly = true, and see if your engine releases all its heat into the rest of the ship after very high or highest timewarp. I've suggested this before but no one seems to have tried it to confirm it.

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleActiveRadiator
	parentCoolingOnly = true
	// etc
	...

 

I'll try that as soon as I can and get back to you. My NTR package is due to release soon; of those only one isn't regeneratively cooled, that'll be a massive open cycle gas core engine. It will be the Guinea pig, a massive thermal body

(should it fail I'll just apply equal nerfs to the radiator and heatproduction) 

[The-Doctor]

I had a look back at some of the work done on FFT, and Nertea really does put in a lot of hard work in is mods, despite any past misunderstandings we may have had, I am really appreciative of the work you do

[Windspren]

Completely uneducated armchair idea:

Perhaps add a special module that makes a part lose all heat when you enter timewarp?

[Storywalker4]

On 5/31/2018 at 12:02 AM, Windspren said:

Completely uneducated armchair idea:

Perhaps add a special module that makes a part lose all heat when you enter timewarp?

Require a coolant flush? Would add difficulty, but would be worth it, right?

[MrFancyPL]

@Nertea Hello, are you gonna ever pick up work on Far Future Tech ? Personally I love this mod.

[MaverickSawyer]

5 hours ago, MrFancyPL said:

@Nertea Hello, are you gonna ever pick up work on Far Future Tech ? Personally I love this mod.

Patience, young one. Good things come to those who wait, and great things come to those who do not bother the creators.  

[MrFancyPL]

6 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Patience, young one. Good things come to those who wait, and great things come to those who do not bother the creators.  

I did not wanted to bother Nertea :) Thank you for reply