The Grand 0.22 Discussion Thread

[Zuni]

How have I NOT NOTICED YET?

OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD

I should have opened KSP two days ago!

0.22 is here! AAAAIAAAAAAIAAAAH!

[LameLefty]

I unlocked the Stayputnik probe core but man is it difficult to DO anything without solar panels! The wimpy batteries available early in the game just don't cut it for a real mission. Even loading up 900-odd points worth of electricity isn't enough to stop them from going dead before I can enter Munar orbit. Aargh. "For want of a nail, the kingdom was lost!" Replace "nail" with solar panels, and "kingdom" with probe.

[craigp]

Okay, I've played a lot of the new patch. Very nice work! I've been raving about it on Twitter, so I'll just summarize here:

I think the method of the science works well with the fundamental focus of KSP. KSP is about travel - building and using rockets. Therefore, you get science by traveling. It works well with the fundamental idea of the game. I wouldn't mind reasons to have satellites, but I can see leaving for later, or for a mod.

I'm very impressed by the new feel that science gives the game. The energy-heavy trickle of broadcast really gives a lot more weight to every mission I go on, which is great. Rather than decay by a set percentage with each broadcast, I might prefer something similarly trickly - like you can perform experiments that take a long time and dedicated kerbals, or something. That would increase the usefulness of astronauts and further extend missions. Well, that can be a mod, too.

On the downside, you did kill all my precious 4x-physics rovers: your new SAS algorithm seems screwed up.

Edited October 18, 2013 by craigp
spelling

[Doc Anderson]

I, for one, love the update ... not because any one feature is spectacular (spoiler: they're not done yet), but because for the first time I got a tangible glimpse at what the game might look like when it's finished ... and THAT looks pretty awesome.

But there are three things to keep in mind:

First, remember this is an "Early Access" ALPHA we are being allowed to play with.

Second, consider that in .22, Squad just changed the fundamental structure of the game WITHOUT BREAKING IT (too much), all so we could all still play with it ... while they continue to work on it. That's a pretty impressive piece of juggling. Maybe not "changing a tire on a moving vehicle impressive," but close. They deserve a LOT of credit.

Third, (For those of you who found this release a major disappointment) tell me what YOU did in that time and then I'll tell you whether I'M impressed.

What I am impressed with is what Squad is doing. They are CONTINUING to build a solid product at a sustainable and realistic pace. How can I say it is solid? because I have logged more than TWICE as many (very entertaining) hours in this ALPHA release of KSP than any of the 192 "FINISHED" games in my steam account ... a number of which I paid twice as much for. THAT is solid value. They are also building something that is inspiring kids to go into science. Way cool!

Is .22 perfect? Hell, no! Are there things I want to see changed? Absolutely! But I have no doubt that KSP will be finished because Squad has done two things:

First, they have kept to their plan and not over-extended themselves and

Second, they have taught all of us how to drop large objects on them from orbit if they don't.

[Merinsan]

I voted that it's awesome, but I was torn.

I also hate it....

I hate it because I am now so tired, I am unable to focus on work.

I hate it because I am hanging around the forums reading about it when I should be working.

Can't wait to hate 0.23!

[The Destroyer]

I loved the update. I'm sad that I watched feature videos, because it feels like I've already done/seen X feature.

But whatever I still love it and stuff I didn't see!

[milbournosphere]

I put down OK. It's certainly a work in progress, but I really like what I see. I'm liking the challenge of doing something with basically nothing, and am eager to see more!

[Merinsan]

... No new parts ...

Science module

Goo container

1 New antenna

Changes to large antenna

Nose cone changed to science part

Changes to landing legs

Besides that, the whole point of the update was to give us SCIENCE! and the tech tree. We have this now and it's cool.

[phyrex999]

Ive been waiting a long time for the tech tree, and I am glad it is here. Its robustness leave a little to be desired at this point, however it is a good starting point and I know that Squad will be doing their best to get it to where they want it to be. Personally, Ive done pretty much everything in Sandbox mode, but being limited in career mode has made it a little more challenging. You try to do a lot more with a lot less, and there is a little more sense of accomplishment when you do it. I am not saying sandbox is easy, because it isn't, especially when you challenge yourself, but career mode adds a whole new level to the challenge.

[Expwnential]

I went to jool and cashed in on the 2400 science for the atmospheric analysis. Finished the tree up the easy way.

[Mitchz95]

I love it. At first I was reluctant to start from scratch with only a few parts to choose from, but it proved to be challenging enough to be fun. And I love finding all the science possibilities around the solar system!

[sirkut]

Switching between scenes has been a big improvement, since I do mods I switch/refresh a LOT this has made me one happy camper.

[chrischambers]

I download the game, last night and it take about 30 mins to download,

Once downloaded I started to play the career mode, and at first I found it harder as I had to think for each mission, and what I wanted out of it, as from the beginning we don't have all the parts, like the docking ports, decupplers etc.

For the Sandpit gaming I discovered that my saved game came across with no issues, once I copy across the Mods which I am using,

Regarding people moaning about the science, yes it would be nice to use this within the Sandpit, and see the results of the science, but then why would the point of having the career mode. Maybe once all the Career mode is completed, then who knows what will happy, as it might be like, what other people as posted, that it will be sandpit with Science.

I haven’t tried all the of the new functions, which I will try this weekend, and see how they all work with each other.

[Beowolf]

I agree completely!

Also I'm finding it really frustrating I can't look after my kerbal a little bit more. It just doesn't fell right having poor Jeb cooped up in a mk1 capsule for weeks for minimus or almost a year for duna.... I need a 1 man 1m hitchhiker capsule so I don't feel so bad doing longer term missions.

Also starting stock again I once agian learnt my I always have mechjeb installed, I find staring at a nav ball and hitting wasd rather tedious and extremely fustraiting when my craft blows up 4mins in a launch....

HAHA, yeah, me too. I guiltily confessed to the wife this morning about sending poor Jeb to Duna in what amounts to a Mercury capsule. He planted his flag, scooped a pocketfull of dirt, and there he sits waiting for his next launch window in 139 days...without room to even change his clothes. After our 14-day Gemini mission, the capsule smelled so bad one of the sailors threw up when he tried to help the astronauts out. Jeb's going to be a biological weapon of mass destruction!

There's an easy fix to get MechJeb going. Check the last few pages of the MechJeb thread in the Addons Showcase forum.

[Vosper]

Just in case not covered, my thoughts. (its amazing, i`m loving the game again).. but.

1. Rockomax science snr modual please!!

2. Ability to store more than 1 ground sample in a 3 man / 2 man cap. (its bigger = more room). (or maybe a sample storage container part, so you could sub orbital and collect from biomes)

3. Ability to see which bit of an object you have science on.. great if you mark them with flags. (but no go with return probes).

4. Once you have battery/solar the transmit 60 times to get near same as return mission grind. Maybe 10 is enough?

5. Make soil samples no data transfer, so it encourages return missions. 3 samples = 100% (so 3 man pods become useful).

6. If were logging missions, why not add a mission log on each pilot? so you can see the mission they have been on/visited (ties into 3).

7. Allow transfer of samples between pods (so allowing a Apollo style mission).

8. If you do an Apollo style mission it tracks the pilot not the pod, so you get a landing on moon etc, even if the return bit never went to the moon.

To complete the -snip- sandwich.. its fab!!! just a few tweaks needed.

Edited October 18, 2013 by KasperVld
slight tweak.

[camulus777]

I love it. And if you think it's to easy try getting to the mun in tech one there's your challenge.

[OneEyedShark]

this post was not made here

(In caps, cuase it won't let me)

Edited October 18, 2013 by OneEyedShark

[Epthelyn]

Career mode is unfinished, but it's still really fun (Oh look, KSP in a nutshell). The restrictions on parts you can use add a challenge you could make yourself obey in Sandbox, but in this mode you can't cheat which is great for the kind of people who break their own rules to get something into orbit.

Oh and:

- Sub-assemblies

- KSC just doubled in size without any loss in performance and looks amazing

[Mr. Scruffy]

I think, i would like it even more, if you´d not only have to unlock the fields, but also the individual parts they contain... this would allow you to specialize even more and would make sure, parts you still never use dont end up in your list, because they are coupled with something you really need. It would also make the transition from data collected to parts becoming avaiable a bit smoother and thus a tad more realistic and immersive (cause watching the goo wont tell you -directly- how to build another engine, right?).

I´d also like to see part-improvements coming with a later update: Once you´d have unlocked an individual (!- see above) part you could decide to spend yet more science on it, to carry it through a couple of steps (say 3 or so) of evolution, where it gets slightly better stats each time, for an increasing cost in science.

The science center building should not show in all completeness from the get-go, but start with a tiny shed and grow bigger with each field you unlock.

Not saying all these were ommisions - i just hope they come later. As for now, this update is good with a tendency to awesome, imho.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Mr. Scruffy

[Brapness]

but this is what makes it easy! that you can do this

Then go to Duna, and if that's too easy go to Jool, the list goes on

[TNM]

As a fairly new player (bought it after .20 was released on steam) only achieving a apollo-moon mission and a space station i took the opportunity for a fresh start (i waited for .22 and skipped .21).

I think its a good way to challenge new players. It's not for veterans as they know how to build rockets and don't have to experiment to get anywhere, they just know already.

I don't like some of the "parts" you get or better, don't get. Also, its sometimes not clear how to get the sience. Let me name a few things i run into:

- no structure to hold the rocket in the start position...why? You start with the rocket resting on its engine.

- counterintuitive experiment containers. you have to open the goo-container in space and observe, but if you close it again to make it safe for reentry you reset the container...yea, it took me a few times to get that. you have to return it in the open position (no heat gets in during reentry).

- batteries come late, new players don't understand that you can use multiple engine stages to generate energy. That stops you from doing science, can be misleading, and you lose control of your vessel if you timewarp (no warning or anything).

- it gets too easy too fast. basically, the first 2-5 missions are challenging if you don't have previous KSP knowledge, after that you are done in an instant. To master sience you just need antenna, solar panel, battery, struts and decouplers. After that you can build what you want (or your computer can handle), even just 1 large vessel and finish the tree.

- no longterm sience. No probes i have to leave in space for a time to get the sience, no space station sience (leaving kerbals in space). no surface samples that have to gather sience over time...you get the point.

I have to say i like the direction, but at this stage i will switch to sandbox+mods soon and "roleplay" sience. Sadly, in sandbox there is no working sience to gather points, even just for cosmetic purposes.

[ThesaurusRex]

The only thing I'd change at the moment might be the tech tree, and possibly the science output. The research reminds me less of an actual scientific learning process and more like the research tree you'd see on an AddictingGames game. I'd like to see a tree that more closely mirrors the Space Race, from Sputnik to Gemini to Apollo and etc (and of course you still explore Kerbin's biomes to demonstrate landing and science acquisition technologies, as well as the experiments therein). Science output from crew, EVA reports shouldn't decrease so drastically, as logically they're always going to be doing something different inside, as well as different things happening outside. It would seem that scientific output becomes 'used up' fairly quickly, requiring you to do things like go to the Mun 'prematurely' while you still only have the one-seater command pods. It just doesn't feel right to land on Mun without having the Big Three there to mark the triumphant journey.

I also very much agree with most of what Mr. Scruffy has said -- and upgrading from, say, a bar downtown to a Crew Complex would be pretty funny

All in all, this update is great, and the technologies demonstrated in the new release have tons of potential. Can't wait to see what's in store next.

[mach1]

to my opinion this is not even a beta. O.22 means we are in a pre-alpha mode, and to be at that stage the game is awesome, better than game sold at double the price and fully finished. So every time a new version come out i dont pretend it to be already perfect, i just wanna see the potential of what is added in that version and personally science is what i was waiting from the beginning. So im totally ok with 0.22, i know there are balance issue, it could be usefull to introduce difficulty level so a newbie could start with the actual science request and a skilled player could start with higher. I would move many pieces from one slot to another, i would change the science needed for the unlock and things like that but if i was a newbie this would be awesome as a skilled player, even if not skilled as much as most of you, i rate it ok anyway.

[TUFOM]

Awesome update. First thing that was bothering me with ksp wast I couldn't save different parts of ship and assemble them together -> FIXd. Second thing was 3-6s load times every time changing scene, now its ~1s =FIXd. Huge plus now there is goal to bring crew back safely (besides own goals) at least to the point when everything is unlocked. And even Mun & Minmus missions are interesting again. Awesome work from SQUAD! =)

[KSK]

Loving it so far. I'm having fun with the science and I'm enjoying having to make the most of a reduced part set at the start. I'm probably more of a roleplayer anyway when it comes to KSP, so starting small and working through the tech tree fits my play style very well! I've already seen some interesting posts about the tech tree with different people taking different routes through the tree to suit their own building styles.