[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

@FreeThinker @garwel @kcs123

Guys, discussion as to if IFS needs fixing or has been fixed or will be fixed or how to fix... please do that in IFS' thread. 

[NotAgain]

Anyone got a download link for version 7.4.7?

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, NotAgain said:

Anyone got a download link for version 7.4.7?

All old releases live here: https://github.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/releases

[dlrk]

I've got a mod engine (the KRE SuperDracos) that has it's maxtemp halved by DRE. How do I write an MM patch or whatever to exempt it from scaling down?

[Starwaster]

48 minutes ago, dlrk said:

I've got a mod engine (the KRE SuperDracos) that has it's maxtemp halved by DRE. How do I write an MM patch or whatever to exempt it from scaling down?

Adding %leaveTemp = true to the part will signal DRE not to touch its maxtemp, so setting its max temps to sane values becomes your responsibility.

 

[dlrk]

Thanks!

[TheCaconym]

Playing with the latest KSP, DR and FAR, I seem to have an issue. Basically even simple designs, with only stock parts, will have temperature issues on re-entry. For example, a MK1 command pod with a 1.25 payload bay below it and then a standard 1.25m heat shield below that, at 120 ablator; or a MK1 lander can / Hitchhiker Storage Container / 2.5m heatshield stack with 120 ablator.

In both cases the ablator never runs out; rather, it seems the temperature transfers through the heatshield towards the part directly behind it (respectively for my two examples, the payload bay and the hitchhiker module) too much; its temperature raises and it ends up exploding (the heat shield doesn't though, although it ends up separated / hitting the ship as a result). This happens both at 120% or 100% reentry temperature settings (the usual KSP setting I mean - I tried both values), and when re-entering from low kerbin orbit (~100/200K) and at all re-entry periapsises I tried: 10K, 20K, 30K, 45K, and anything above gave me an okay aerobraking on the first run and the same issue when I actually re-entered on the second run.

Now here's the weird thing: I can avoid the issue *most* of the time if I "wobble" the re-entering ship. That is, instead of pointing it straight retrograde (the heat shield against the atmosphere), I tend to wobble it all around the retrograde pointer actively during re-entry; this seems to regularly, by small steps, decrease the temperature of the affected part (not the heatshield but the part behind it). If I stay in the same position too long it will increase and eventually explode though.

I've looked at the KSP log file while this was occurring and there were no DeadlyReentry messages being emitted. Any idea what could cause such an issue ?

Edited December 19, 2017 by TheCaconym
screwed up initial post

[garwel]

2 hours ago, TheCaconym said:

Playing with the latest KSP, DR and FAR, I seem to have an issue. Basically even simple designs, with only stock parts, will have temperature issues on re-entry. For example, a MK1 command pod with a 1.25 payload bay below it and then a standard 1.25m heat shield below that, at 120 ablator; or a MK1 lander can / Hitchhiker Storage Container / 2.5m heatshield stack with 120 ablator.

In both cases the ablator never runs out; rather, it seems the temperature transfers through the heatshield towards the part directly behind it (respectively for my two examples, the payload bay and the hitchhiker module) too much; its temperature raises and it ends up exploding (the heat shield doesn't though, although it ends up separated / hitting the ship as a result). This happens both at 120% or 100% reentry temperature settings (the usual KSP setting I mean - I tried both values), and when re-entering from low kerbin orbit (~100/200K) and at all re-entry periapsises I tried: 10K, 20K, 30K, 45K, and anything above gave me an okay aerobraking on the first run and the same issue when I actually re-entered on the second run.

Looks like the same issue I had. I hope you'll find a solution. I had to uninstall DRE after several catastrophic reentries.

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, TheCaconym said:

Playing with the latest KSP, DR and FAR, I seem to have an issue. Basically even simple designs, with only stock parts, will have temperature issues on re-entry. For example, a MK1 command pod with a 1.25 payload bay below it and then a standard 1.25m heat shield below that, at 120 ablator; or a MK1 lander can / Hitchhiker Storage Container / 2.5m heatshield stack with 120 ablator.

I've looked at the KSP log file while this was occurring and there were no DeadlyReentry messages being emitted. Any idea what could cause such an issue ?

I doubt that the heat is conducting through the heat shield at a rate fast enough to destroy the part behind it. I don't even think you can crank the conductivity setting high enough for that.

Most likely what is happening is a known issue where cylindrical parts are not adequately covered by heat shields that are the same diameter.

That is to be expected.

You need a larger diameter heat shield for those parts.

 

1 hour ago, garwel said:

Looks like the same issue I had. I hope you'll find a solution. I had to uninstall DRE after several catastrophic reentries.

It's really not the same issue. Yours I have no idea what the problem is because I lack sufficient information to troubleshoot.

[garwel]

Well, the symptoms are very similar: pods behind heat shields heat up so fast they explode before any significant amount of ablator has even burned up. It happens with various pods and it definitely didn't work like that in the past. I suspect it might have something to do with FAR+DRE combination. If it's intended behavior, I understand, but I'm still surprised why I didn't see it before.

[Simog]

Hi I have a problem with this mod. Kerbals are overheated in EVA on Kerbin. ( I have not tried in other locations for now. )

I read, back pages, that it could be caused by a missing sound or a bad installation. I checked and the sound is present and I also tried to remove it in CKAN and then I reinstalled by hand, after deleting all remnants but the problem persists.

I attach the Log file

Thanks

Edited December 19, 2017 by Simog

[TheCaconym]

6 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Most likely what is happening is a known issue where cylindrical parts are not adequately covered by heat shields that are the same diameter.

That is to be expected.

I almost considered this as the explanation but I thought it too "realistic" to be the cause - and also, a bit like garwel, I don't remember such designs being so dangerous in previous versions of DRE (like almost a year ago - started playing a new game again recently). Like, they worked previously (I want to say at the time where Squad introduced their own temperature stuff and you were working on revamping the mod). It also probably explains why the hitchhiker one was more affected by the issue though (the heatshield below *really* doesn't cover it well). Would also explain why a simple MK1 command pod + 1.5m heatshield does not present the issue (IE, it doesn't have the cylindrical payload bay that is slightly larger than the heatshield).

Glad to see this is the likely reason; guess I will have to adapt my designs :-) thanks ! it makes the mod that much more interesting.

It comes to mind though that in career mode, this may make early returns pretty risky, at least with some pods (such as the mk1 lander or the hitchhiker module - both noticeably larger than their same size heatshields) until you unlock the larger heatshields (IE, larger than the pods).

Edited December 19, 2017 by TheCaconym

[Starwaster]

10 hours ago, garwel said:

Well, the symptoms are very similar: pods behind heat shields heat up so fast they explode before any significant amount of ablator has even burned up. It happens with various pods and it definitely didn't work like that in the past. I suspect it might have something to do with FAR+DRE combination. If it's intended behavior, I understand, but I'm still surprised why I didn't see it before.

Ok I misread your post; I thought you were saying the shield itself was being destroyed. 

As I said before, parts that are the same size as the shield (not counting tapering parts like the Mk1-2 pod or other cone shaped parts) have been a known issue ever since the new physics came out and yes, FAR is probably a factor in some of those cases.

The thing is that DRE doesn't even affect parts being subject to heating or not, we stopped doing that after KSP 1.0.3.  All DRE does now is  change how parts are affected by that heating. (max temp rebalancing, fire effects, g-force effects, Kerbal deaths, Kerbal screams, etc)

I can't speak to all of the parts you mentioned (the non-stock one I'm unfamiliar with) but the Mk1 lander can is just not given full coverage by a 2.5m heat shield and that's just in stock, not FAR. It has an exposed area of 0.3 m²  with the shield attached and facing backwards for reentry with an AoA of 0^o

@Simog I'll look into it but it's a visual issue and you don't really need to worry. He's not really overheating.... much. Kerbal part inner max temp has been drastically reduce in KSP to to more realistic temperatures. Absolute max temp before the Kerbal explodes is 373.15 K... which is the boiling temperature of water. On the ground, a Kerbal's temperature is going to be over 296K which is 79% of the max temp and so KSP turns on the overheating gauge. If you think about it, all living beings are within a very narrow safe temperature range for their environment. I guess what I'm trying to say is ignore it and don't worry about it. By the next release I should figure out why the gauge is showing up again after I successfully got rid of it a few revisions back.

[Simog]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

 

@Simog I'll look into it but it's a visual issue and you don't really need to worry. He's not really overheating.... much. Kerbal part inner max temp has been drastically reduce in KSP to to more realistic temperatures. Absolute max temp before the Kerbal explodes is 373.15 K... which is the boiling temperature of water. On the ground, a Kerbal's temperature is going to be over 296K which is 79% of the max temp and so KSP turns on the overheating gauge. If you think about it, all living beings are within a very narrow safe temperature range for their environment. I guess what I'm trying to say is ignore it and don't worry about it. By the next release I should figure out why the gauge is showing up again after I successfully got rid of it a few revisions back.

Good to know, Thanks  . 

[Lmoy]

I'm playing a Realism Overhaul/10x Kerbol game. Reentry has been a bit of a problem for me for the whole game. LEO reentries have thus far required a lunar-rated heat shield, as the LEO heat shields can't take the stress. I made a number of modifications to the 10x Kerbol config, one of which was to move the Mun out to where the real moon is relative to the Earth, and thus Munar reentry speeds are ~11 km/s like in real life. In testing my lunar Gemini craft, my lunar-rated heat shield is getting utterly annihilated by the heat. I tried an Apollo-style lifting reentry (60km periapsis), but the ablator was devoured extremely rapidly and the heat shield ran out and exploded at approximately 60 km with 8km/s velocity remaining. When I try a slightly steeper ballistic reentry to prevent the ablator from running out, the heat shield's temps hit well over 3000k at about 80km, upon which it explodes

At 2000k, a "lunar rated" heat shield loses all of its ablator in 90 seconds. I know that Apollo 4's heat shield experienced over 3000k during reentry, and this was a successful flight; lunar rated heat shields in DR should be able to survive that as well, so I'm lead to believe that my Deadly Reentry install is using configs for stock Kerbin, rather than 10x scale. Is DR not detecting the 10x Kerbol mod because I changed the configs? If so, what can I do to fix this?

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Lmoy said:

I'm playing a Realism Overhaul/10x Kerbol game. Reentry has been a bit of a problem for me for the whole game. LEO reentries have thus far required a lunar-rated heat shield, as the LEO heat shields can't take the stress. I made a number of modifications to the 10x Kerbol config, one of which was to move the Mun out to where the real moon is relative to the Earth, and thus Munar reentry speeds are ~11 km/s like in real life. In testing my lunar Gemini craft, my lunar-rated heat shield is getting utterly annihilated by the heat. I tried an Apollo-style lifting reentry (60km periapsis), but the ablator was devoured extremely rapidly and the heat shield ran out and exploded at approximately 60 km with 8km/s velocity remaining. When I try a slightly steeper ballistic reentry to prevent the ablator from running out, the heat shield's temps hit well over 3000k at about 80km, upon which it explodes

At 2000k, a "lunar rated" heat shield loses all of its ablator in 90 seconds. I know that Apollo 4's heat shield experienced over 3000k during reentry, and this was a successful flight; lunar rated heat shields in DR should be able to survive that as well, so I'm lead to believe that my Deadly Reentry install is using configs for stock Kerbin, rather than 10x scale. Is DR not detecting the 10x Kerbol mod because I changed the configs? If so, what can I do to fix this?

I need to see your ModuleManager.ConfigCache file. It's in the GameData folder, just put it up for download somewhere such as Dropbox.

And output_log.txt file

Edited December 29, 2017 by Starwaster

[Lmoy]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

I need to see your ModuleManager.ConfigCache file. It's in the GameData folder, just put it up for download somewhere such as Dropbox.

And output_log.txt file

Here is a Dropbox folder containing both files.

[S4qFBxkFFg]

(Apologies if the answer is elsewhere, I couldn't find it if so.)

The stock shields have resource "Ablator", while this mod's have "Ablative Shielding" - what is the significance of this difference?

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, S4qFBxkFFg said:

(Apologies if the answer is elsewhere, I couldn't find it if so.)

The stock shields have resource "Ablator", while this mod's have "Ablative Shielding" - what is the significance of this difference?

AblativeShielding is the resource that Deadly Reentry has always used, long before reentry heating became part of the stock game. Stock KSP named their resource Ablator.

DRE retained AblativeShielding for compatibility purposes so that pre-KSP 1.0 craft files and save games would continue to work. (craft in saved games are especially vulnerable to resources being removed from the game)

[Starwaster]

@Lmoy

Ok, seen this once before.

Your installation is messed up and you have two sets of PhysicsGlobals. The one actually being used is probably the stock one which multiplies stock Mach convection by about 7x

Not only that but one of the PhysicsGlobals nodes has values matching that of an older version of RO.

Look in your GameData folder for ModuleManager.Physics 

And then delete it and run KSP again. THEN - If you're comfortable poking around in the ModuleManager.ConfigCache file, inspect it and do a count for PHYSICSGLOBALS. It should appear exactly four (4) times. If it appears EIGHT times then the problem hasn't gone away.

If it HASN'T gone away, look in the root KSP folder for your Physics file and send me that too. And then delete it and run KSP again.

(this is the third time it's happened now that *I* know of; so it's somewhat of an edge case but something specific is causing it, maybe CKAN if you use that. I dunno)

Edited December 29, 2017 by Starwaster

[Lmoy]

Okay, I deleted ModuleManager.Physics, ran KSP again, and then checked ModuleManager.ConfigCache, which still has the two different sets of PhysicsGlobals in it (shows up eight times).
Here is the physics.cfg file.

I do use CKAN. Or rather, I used it for the mods it had available, but there's a lot of mods that aren't on it that I use, so I've also manually installed a lot of mods. This is the first time I've used it for an install; in the past I've done everything manually, but CKAN was recommended to me for its ease of use. 

[Starwaster]

4 hours ago, Lmoy said:

Okay, I deleted ModuleManager.Physics, ran KSP again, and then checked ModuleManager.ConfigCache, which still has the two different sets of PhysicsGlobals in it (shows up eight times).
Here is the physics.cfg file.

I do use CKAN. Or rather, I used it for the mods it had available, but there's a lot of mods that aren't on it that I use, so I've also manually installed a lot of mods. This is the first time I've used it for an install; in the past I've done everything manually, but CKAN was recommended to me for its ease of use. 

Ok nothing wrong with that file.... try deleting both ModuleManager.ConfigCache and ModuleManager.Physics

If that doesn't work then delete and do manual install of RO

[Lmoy]

On 12/29/2017 at 9:51 PM, Starwaster said:

Ok nothing wrong with that file.... try deleting both ModuleManager.ConfigCache and ModuleManager.Physics

If that doesn't work then delete and do manual install of RO

Deleting the MM cache files didn't fix the issue so I took your advice and restarted with a fresh 1.2.2 install and reinstalled RO and all the other mods I'm using manually. This fixed the problem, and also a totally different problem I was having with some FASA parts, so that's nice.

Initially I tried using the mods in the ZIP files that CKAN keeps in its "downloads" folder, but this replicated the issue, so it does look like the issue is with CKAN itself, or at least something it's doing. Dunno what though. Anyway, thanks a lot for your help! You're awesome.

[Starwaster]

Anyone using alternately sized star systems should re-download the file DeadlyReentry-AlternateStarSystems.cfg and copy it over the existing file in the DeadlyReentry folder. Otherwise certain shields will NOT ablate.

This bug does NOT affect Realism Overhaul as its configs only go into effect in the absence of Realism Overhaul.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadlyReentry_AlternateStarSystems.cfg

[chrisl]

I'm trying to create a heat shield but I'm having trouble and I believe it's because I don't really understand the parameters in ModuleHeatShield.  I'm pretty sure that the three I'm concerned with are lossExp, lossConst & pyrolysisLossFactor.  I'm just not sure what each actually does.  I've tried using existing parts as reference, but after trying numerous combinations, I'm still not really understanding how this all works.  My heatshield either burns through Ablator like it's nothing (1250 units in about two minutes while decelerating from 7600 to 7000m/s at 50km-75km altitude) or I use almost no ablator.  That's one problem.  THe other is that the "Exposed Skin" temp seems to climb very high (2700+) which seems to greatly increase the Internal Temp of the part (1000+).  Any assistance in understanding these parameters would be greatly appreciated.