[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

20 minutes ago, raxo2222 said:

Why stock precoolers are so weak to heat? Max skin temp is only 1023 degrees Celsius or so.

Do I should move wings to bottom of spaceplane, so precoolers would be hidden by wings from hot plasma?

 

maxTemp is set to 1073.15 Kelvin (800 Celsius or 1472 Fahrenheit)

That's fine for a supersonic plane in stock KSP. If you're putting it through reentry then yes you should be designing your craft differently.

[raxo2222]

7 hours ago, Starwaster said:

maxTemp is set to 1073.15 Kelvin (800 Celsius or 1472 Fahrenheit)

That's fine for a supersonic plane in stock KSP. If you're putting it through reentry then yes you should be designing your craft differently.

Well I have RSS, this means staying longer in upper atmosphere.

Also precoolers burned up during ascending....

Shouldn't be this precooler covered with reentry tiles?

So looks like I have to remove precoolers entirely or manually make their skin temp at 2700 (both internal and skin max temp are set at 1023 degrees).

I'll post screenshots of my craft later.

Edit:

Yep only precoolers can't take this burn - all parts have skin max temp well over 2700 while precoolers have max temp of 1073 kelvins - both skin and internal.

Also this max temp limiter was at 1528 degrees or something but I increased it exactly to 2700 degrees.

http://imgur.com/a/2d9jr

So precoolers are useless.

Edited August 22, 2016 by raxo2222

[Jimmy P]

8 hours ago, Starwaster said:

RO has builtin overrides for DRE's gforce damage. It's sort of based off real life values for humans to the extent that I could apply them to KSP / DRE game mechanics.

The short of it is that humans can withstand horrendous g-forces for short periods of time. Doing 6 Gs for  few minutes poses no problems if you are trained to withstand it. (assume all human and Kerbal astronauts are). I arranged it so that you could withstand 6g for ~12 minutes and 10g for 1 min. (measured as the game measures time; remember that 1 minute of real time is often going to be less than 1 minute of game so go by MET display)

The g force was definitely off the charts for more than a minute. Maybe I don't have something installed correctly or something. Under the DRE G force tab it says max G force for kerbals is 40, maybe that should be lower? 

[Starwaster]

25 minutes ago, Jimmy P said:

The g force was definitely off the charts for more than a minute. Maybe I don't have something installed correctly or something. Under the DRE G force tab it says max G force for kerbals is 40, maybe that should be lower? 

But where does the chart max out at? And are you measuring that minute in game time (by the MET clock) or real time?

Also, that 'max g force' is the maximum amount of g's that DRE will apply, not the max that Kerbals can take. If anything it can be higher. It's only there as a practical limit on what to apply.

1 hour ago, raxo2222 said:

Well I have RSS, this means staying longer in upper atmosphere.

Also precoolers burned up during ascending....

Shouldn't be this precooler covered with reentry tiles?

So looks like I have to remove precoolers entirely or manually make their skin temp at 2700 (both internal and skin max temp are set at 1023 degrees).

I'll post screenshots of my craft later.

Edit:

Yep only precoolers can't take this burn - all parts have skin max temp well over 2700 while precoolers have max temp of 1073 kelvins - both skin and internal.

Also this max temp limiter was at 1528 degrees or something but I increased it exactly to 2700 degrees.

http://imgur.com/a/2d9jr

So precoolers are useless.

No, they're only useless for the role that you're trying to force them into.

RSS is Not Relevant unless you're referring to reentry and I already told you I don't see them as withstanding reentry. For supersonic flight they're fine unless you're flying at some UnGodly speed with KSPIE supertech. 

The 'max temp limiter' is only Relevant if it was responsible for the reduction to begin with.

[raxo2222]

20 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

But where does the chart max out at? And are you measuring that minute in game time (by the MET clock) or real time?

Also, that 'max g force' is the maximum amount of g's that DRE will apply, not the max that Kerbals can take. If anything it can be higher. It's only there as a practical limit on what to apply.

No, they're only useless for the role that you're trying to force them into.

RSS is Not Relevant unless you're referring to reentry and I already told you I don't see them as withstanding reentry. For supersonic flight they're fine unless you're flying at some UnGodly speed with KSPIE supertech. 

The 'max temp limiter' is only Relevant if it was responsible for the reduction to begin with.

well this precooler is used for KSPIE thermal engines to cool down incoming air.

So looks like I would have to quickly leave atmosphere or simply not use precoolers and hope engine doesn't blow up while on atmospheric mode.

My craft is SSTO - its supposed to go to orbit by its own.

[FreeThinker]

Question, how to make DR leave parts alone?

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Question, how to make DR leave parts alone?

Don't install DRE at all ?

Seriously, DRE have MM patch for almost every part in game. It is either, do not install DRE at all, or create additional MM config files to readjust part configs for personal preference.

[FreeThinker]

22 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

Don't install DRE at all ?

Seriously, DRE have MM patch for almost every part in game. It is either, do not install DRE at all, or create additional MM config files to readjust part configs for personal preference.

I'm not asking as a player, but as a mod developer. I want my parts to still function as intended when players install my mod and at the same time install DR

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

I'm not asking as a player, but as a mod developer. I want my parts to still function as intended when players install my mod and at the same time install DR

That's why Module Manager has scheduled passes for modders to run with. Three per mod.  Surely there's room for you to work with that?

And for cases where DRE's max temp limiter does affect a part, there's a a way of opting out of that too. (Technically this should happen :AFTER[DeadlyReentry] but it's currently scheduled for final so as long as you don't do this in :FINAL too then you're fine)

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

I'm not asking as a player, but as a mod developer. I want my parts to still function as intended when players install my mod and at the same time install DR

Well, you need additional info in part config file. Basicaly same thing as if you use additional MM config file for that.

Here is example from "setiLFOenginePomearanian.cfg" file, after all MODULEs listed, there is also this:

@PART[setiLFOenginePomeranian]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]:FOR[zzzzSETIprobeParts]
{
	!MODEL,* {}
	MODEL
	{
		model = Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEnginePoodle/model
		scale = 0.25, 0.25, 0.25
	}
}

In similar way you can add your own part configs. Starwaster have already answered at the same time as I wrote this post. Hope that it will help.

[FreeThinker]

Thank you, it is clear now

[Jimmy P]

Thanks for the replies Starwaster, I was just trying to make sure something wasn't messed up. It sounds like maybe it isn't and that I just got lucky. The scale in game maxes at like 15g so maybe it is hard to say how much higher he got. I was just remembering a play through from maybe 1.05 that if I came in too steeply my Kerbals were toast. I thought the settings like crew G max would set how much they could take before death.

[Starwaster]

1 minute ago, Jimmy P said:

Thanks for the replies Starwaster, I was just trying to make sure something wasn't messed up. It sounds like maybe it isn't and that I just got lucky. The scale in game maxes at like 15g so maybe it is hard to say how much higher he got. I was just remembering a play through from maybe 1.05 that if I came in too steeply my Kerbals were toast. I thought the settings like crew G max would set how much they could take before death.

The original g-force settings were, out of necessity, harsher than they would be IRL because they were for the stock game and reentries there are so much shorter that g-force damage was scaled up.

But RSS / RO are supposed to be about realism, and humans can actually take quite a bit of g's before it's fatal. We have to abstract things quite a bit; IRL it varies quite a bit depending on which way the acceleration is and there's a lot of gray area involving injury as opposed to outright life or death which is the extent of DRE's scope.

[charliepryor]

If I'm getting this spammed in my log, even though I don't have any of the parts for Deadly Reentry installed on that craft, what do I do? 

Spoiler

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at DeadlyReentry.ModuleHeatShield.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

Here's the log.

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, charliepryor said:

If I'm getting this spammed in my log, even though I don't have any of the parts for Deadly Reentry installed on that craft, what do I do? 

  Hide contents

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at DeadlyReentry.ModuleHeatShield.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

Here's the log.

One of the parts on your craft has an improperly configured heat shield. I tried to guard against situations like that but apparently that's not working.

The craft has B9 parts so I'm guessing they haven't rewritten the spaceplane parts to account for changes in DRE + stock KSP after KSP 1.0. Or possibly there's an update for B9 that you haven't downloaded given that it's being maintained by different persons.

So, problem in a nutshell: Prior to KSP 1.0's new thermal model, DRE's ModuleHeatShield was used for both ablative and non-ablative shields. The latter were typically not configured with any ablative RESOURCE, and that's where the problem lies. ModuleHeatShield is a child of KSP's ModuleAblator and null refs get thrown if the module can't find the designated resource or if it was not configured with a resource at all.

If it is a spaceplane issue then the way to configured it for non-ablative shielding is at the  PART level (stock KSP). This means giving it very high emissive values so it can shed heat rapidly. (and optionally, low absorption). And either very high or very low thermal mass. (stock KSP takes the former approach. DRE takes the latter approach to simulate space shuttle tiles which were very light and had low thermal mass)

[charliepryor]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

One of the parts on your craft has an improperly configured heat shield. I tried to guard against situations like that but apparently that's not working.

The craft has B9 parts so I'm guessing they haven't rewritten the spaceplane parts to account for changes in DRE + stock KSP after KSP 1.0. Or possibly there's an update for B9 that you haven't downloaded given that it's being maintained by different persons.

So, problem in a nutshell: Prior to KSP 1.0's new thermal model, DRE's ModuleHeatShield was used for both ablative and non-ablative shields. The latter were typically not configured with any ablative RESOURCE, and that's where the problem lies. ModuleHeatShield is a child of KSP's ModuleAblator and null refs get thrown if the module can't find the designated resource or if it was not configured with a resource at all.

If it is a spaceplane issue then the way to configured it for non-ablative shielding is at the  PART level (stock KSP). This means giving it very high emissive values so it can shed heat rapidly. (and optionally, low absorption). And either very high or very low thermal mass. (stock KSP takes the former approach. DRE takes the latter approach to simulate space shuttle tiles which were very light and had low thermal mass)

I have it fully updated within CKAN, B9 I mean. I suppose I'd have to bring it up to them, but honestly I don't really expect much for results there. Besides, there's a much larger NullReferenceException going on in this game right now anyways that has no label and no apparently mod name attached to it anyways... which is driving me completely insane. Hundreds per minute. Playing KSP for 45 minutes makes my log over 140MB... is it possible this is linked to that at all?

Spoiler

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Vessel.GetUnloadedVesselMass () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Vessel.GetTotalMass () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Vessel.CalculatePhysicsStats () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Vessel.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by charliepryor

[Torih]

@charliepryorI reported the issue with B9 a while back and they sorted it (though seems not every part was corrected since you have the issue now). It was all the cockpits causing it back then and they fixed the configs. If you have the latest version of B9 then I suggest you grab 

which will show the spam and then find which part is causing it. 

@StarwasterCame here to ask if its possible to hide/remove the icon from ingame (or move to blizzy). Had a look in the configs but can't see any option. Reason being I have well over a hundred mods installed and the list of icons is very very long

Edited August 26, 2016 by Torih

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, charliepryor said:

I have it fully updated within CKAN, B9 I mean. I suppose I'd have to bring it up to them, but honestly I don't really expect much for results there. Besides, there's a much larger NullReferenceException going on in this game right now anyways that has no label and no apparently mod name attached to it anyways... which is driving me completely insane. Hundreds per minute. Playing KSP for 45 minutes makes my log over 140MB... is it possible this is linked to that at all?

  Hide contents

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Vessel.GetUnloadedVesselMass () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Vessel.GetTotalMass () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Vessel.CalculatePhysicsStats () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Vessel.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

 

Either a part has negative mass or references a resource that doesn't exist in KSP. (typically because a mod that provided the resource was uninstalled)

15 minutes ago, Torih said:

Came here to ask if its possible to hide/remove the icon from ingame (or move to blizzy). Had a look in the configs but can't see any option. Reason being I have well over a hundred mods installed and the list of icons is very very long

Sorry but there is no option for hiding the icon and Blizzy is unsupported. Maybe someday.

[charliepryor]

10 hours ago, Torih said:

@charliepryorI reported the issue with B9 a while back and they sorted it (though seems not every part was corrected since you have the issue now). It was all the cockpits causing it back then and they fixed the configs. If you have the latest version of B9 then I suggest you grab 

 

I've used that before, and it doesn't show any new information. I have the latest version of B9, so long as the latest version is the same as the one up to date in CKAN. That's all I know there. - I do also have the "Legacy" parts active as well, because I wanted them. If those are the problem, I can attempt to remove them, but I don't know if it will break any current crafts, or more seriously, whether it will ruin my save from contracts being generated for those parts (which I assume that a "test" contract may happen for parts from the mods).

[Torih]

Just now, charliepryor said:

I've used that before, and it doesn't show any new information. I have the latest version of B9, so long as the latest version is the same as the one up to date in CKAN. That's all I know there. - I do also have the "Legacy" parts active as well, because I wanted them. If those are the problem, I can attempt to remove them, but I don't know if it will break any current crafts, or more seriously, whether it will ruin my save from contracts being generated for those parts (which I assume that a "test" contract may happen for parts from the mods).

Yeah i didn't say it would show any extra info  it just means you don't need to check the log each time you test a part on the runway. You need to test your craft and find the part, be more likely they fix it if you do the leg work.

[charliepryor]

1 minute ago, Torih said:

Yeah i didn't say it would show any extra info  it just means you don't need to check the log each time you test a part on the runway. You need to test your craft and find the part, be more likely they fix it if you do the leg work.

It's very likely the SH Wings and the SW wing tip, or the S2 Spaceplane parts in general. Those parts are in the legacy folder, and they are a part of my latest spaceplane in the series. Pretty much this plane is exclusivly B9 parts. So I'll start there.  - I believe this was happening before though, when only my space station was loaded without the plane being there in the scene - and if that is the case.... well this might come down to RCS thrusters or something, IDK. It'll be a chore to track it down... and that still, even when solved, doesn't solve the worse NRE problem I have. Damn.

[Starwaster]

@charliepryor

removing parts from your installation WILL break craft. They will be deleted when you load the save file. 

[charliepryor]

2 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@charliepryor

removing parts from your installation WILL break craft. They will be deleted when you load the save file. 

Yeah I know. The main NRE I'm trying to diagnose doesn't appear to be related to DRE though, but it comes up EVERY single craft, even new ones, regardless of how many parts or where they are, and regardless of even them being brand new. A single probe core on the launchpad throws hundreds per minute. Deleting parts until I track that down might be all I can do.  - I have 4 KSP folders, all pretty much copies, as well as a separate backup of my save folder... so I just gotta take the likely insane amount of time required to do it and track it down.

The biggest problem with deleting parts though isn't so much the crafts being deleted, as much as it is the entire career being corrupted entirely because the parts were somehow associated with potential contracts. UGH. KSP... I don't know how you modders do this stuff, but I admire your dedication to solving problems. I'm sure this stuff I have to do is just a small taste of that,

[Starwaster]

10 hours ago, charliepryor said:

Yeah I know. The main NRE I'm trying to diagnose doesn't appear to be related to DRE though, but it comes up EVERY single craft, even new ones, regardless of how many parts or where they are, and regardless of even them being brand new. A single probe core on the launchpad throws hundreds per minute. Deleting parts until I track that down might be all I can do.  - I have 4 KSP folders, all pretty much copies, as well as a separate backup of my save folder... so I just gotta take the likely insane amount of time required to do it and track it down.

The biggest problem with deleting parts though isn't so much the crafts being deleted, as much as it is the entire career being corrupted entirely because the parts were somehow associated with potential contracts. UGH. KSP... I don't know how you modders do this stuff, but I admire your dedication to solving problems. I'm sure this stuff I have to do is just a small taste of that,

Make a new save to troubleshoot  that e

[charliepryor]

5 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Make a new save to troubleshoot  that e

@blowfish Mentioned not knowing how the DRE patch should work in my thread over there. Perhaps you two can talk.