[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

linuxgurugamer · August 27, 2018

I noticed that the following parts in my game did not have the ablator changed:

ChopShop_OpHS
KurrikaneHeatShield
ShieldedAerospikeSz3
ShieldedAerospikeSz3HG
KKAOSS_base_heatshield
TaurusHeatshield
SYheatShield7m
HeatShield0
HeatShield1
HeatShield2
HeatShield3
kv1Pod
kv2Pod
kv3Pod
HeatShield1p5
SXTHeatShieldSize5
kadeptHSlarge
kadeptHSmedium
kadeptHSmodest
kadeptHSsmall
LVT15

This caused a situation where a heatshield (HeatShield2, the 2.5m stock heatshield) to still have the stock ablator and it's 800 units of ablator were used in about 2 seconds, while the Mk1-3 pod, which had 100 units of ablator, was able to survive and only used 4 units of ablator.

Help.....

linuxgurugamer · August 27, 2018

@Starwaster I realize that the parts I listed are from a number of different mods. If you can point me to instructions on how to change heat shield settings, I could see if I can write a patch and get it to you for these mods

pr4ger · August 27, 2018

@Starwaster, I have gone through your OPT config and added sections for OPT parts - cocpits, wings, fuselages, engines, etc., so now it is easier to manage properties of different parts' groups and tech levels. I also have populated these sections with all the actual OPT parts, except some legacy ones. I also have set a little bit different temperature thresholds based on my understanding and original OPT values. Feel free to tweak this config and include it in any future updates. I don't know how attach files here, so I am posting the config under spoiler tag.

Spoiler


//H_Fuselages
@PART[h_2m_em_fm|h_2m_em_mm|h_2m_nose_fm|h_2m_nose_mm|h_3m_crew_fm|h_3m_crew_mm|h_3m_fuel_fm|h_3m_fuel_mm|h_4m_nose_fm|h_4m_nose_mm|h_drone_fm|h_drone_mm]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0 // If this EVER changes then skinThermalMassModifier needs to be divided by same amount!
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//J_Fuselages
@PART[ij_adaptor|ij_4m_adaptor_variant|j_2m_tanks|j_2m_inlineBoardingRamp|j_deploymentBay|j_3m_rearHatch|j_4m_cargo|j_4m_crew|j_engineMount_4|j_4m_tanks|j_4m_lab|j_4m_service|j_4m_drone|j_4m_droneRCS|j_sas|mk2j_adaptor]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0 // If this EVER changes then skinThermalMassModifier needs to be divided by same amount!
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//K_Fuselages
@PART[jk_3m_adaptor|jk_7m_adaptor|k_3m_fuelTank|k_3m_fuselage|k_6m_cargo|k_6m_fuelTank|k_6m_fuselage|k_7m_cargoTail|k_7m_cargoTail_variant]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0 // If this EVER changes then skinThermalMassModifier needs to be divided by same amount!
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//KH_Fuselages
@PART[name=kh_3m_cargo|kh_3m_fuselage|kh_6m_cargo|kh_6m_fuselage|kh_7m_cargoTail|kh_7m_cargoTail_variant]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0 // If this EVER changes then skinThermalMassModifier needs to be divided by same amount!
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//Basic_Cockpits_and_nosecones
@PART[i_4m_cockpit_isp|mk2_nose_opt|mk2_cockpitv2|mk2_cockpit|mk3_shuttle_noseCone|mk3Cockpit_Airliner|i_4m_cockpit_ispb|ils_cockpit_mki|mk23_cockpit]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15	
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//Hi_Tech_Cockpits_and_nosecones
@PART[phoenix_cockpit|ils_cockpitv2|j_5m_nose|j_6m_cockpit|j_cockpitv2|j_cockpit_qs|j_cockpit_qs_no_intake|k_10m_cockpit]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2950
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15	
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//Wings_and_solid_parts
@PART[j_2m_bicoupler|i_4m_tail|j_docking_port|j_large_docking_port|j_5m_tail|k_2m_bicoupler|k_3m_tricoupler|mk2_ramIntake|opt_pylon_a|opt_pylon_b|opt_stabilizer_a|opt_stabilizer_b|opt_wing_a|opt_wing_a_elevon|opt_wing_b|opt_wing_b_elevon|opt_wing_c|opt_wing_c_elevon1|opt_wing_c_elevon2|opt_winglet_a|opt_winglet_a_elevon|opt_winglet_b|opt_winglet_b_elevon|opt_winglet_c|opt_winglet_c_elevon|mk2_ramIntake|OPTantenna]
{
	%maxTemp = 1500
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15	
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//Engines_and_RCS
@PART[AAengine|engine_darkDrive|opt_mk2_engine_short|opt_nebula_engine|j_linear_aerospike|opt_oms_black|opt_oms_grey|opt_rcs_black|opt_rcs_grey|opt_retro_rcs]
{
	%maxTemp = 1500
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15	
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}

Edited August 27, 2018 by pr4ger

Starwaster · August 27, 2018

14 hours ago, pr4ger said:

Hi, Starwaster! Thanks for update. DRE decreases a lot of max skin temp numbers for OPT parts in my install, so half of the cockpits are useless now - with only 1350-1500 C treshold. Was it done on purpose or I have issues with my install?

All parts have their max temps decreased if they exceed sane values. Also, all temperatures are in K (Kelvin) and not Celsius.

Setting leaveTemp = true in ModuleAeroReentry tells Deadly Reentry not to balance max temps.

I see that you submitted some configs for OPT; at first glance they seem acceptable except for the maxTemp for cockpit parts. The assumption for space plane parts in DRE is that the internal frame and hull under the thermal protection system (the skin) is aluminum like in the space shuttle so 1500 is too high. (even 850 is too high but not by very much)

9 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

@Starwaster I realize that the parts I listed are from a number of different mods. If you can point me to instructions on how to change heat shield settings, I could see if I can write a patch and get it to you for these mods

I think I need to see some of the configs of the parts that aren't converting. It's not actually a problem if the ablative resource itself isn't converting and it actually SHOULDN'T convert. If the ablator PartModule is using the old format (from DRE in the days of pre-KSP 1.0) then that would be a big problem.

linuxgurugamer · August 27, 2018

8 hours ago, Starwaster said:

I think I need to see some of the configs of the parts that aren't converting. It's not actually a problem if the ablative resource itself isn't converting and it actually SHOULDN'T convert. If the ablator PartModule is using the old format (from DRE in the days of pre-KSP 1.0) then that would be a big problem.

Ok, I assume you only need to see the ModuleAblator stanza, so here they are:

ChopShop_OpHS

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 800
                maxAmount = 800
        }

KurrikaneHeatShield

		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleHeatShield
			ablativeResource = Ablator
			reentryConductivity = 0.001
			ablationTempThresh = 500
			useChar = True
			charModuleName = shieldChar
			lossExp = -7500
			lossConst = 1
			pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
			reentryConductivity = 0.001
			depletedMaxTemp = 1200
		}

		RESOURCE
		{
			name = Ablator
			amount = 25
			maxAmount = 25
		}

ShieldedAerospikeSz3

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500
                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 1300
                maxAmount = 1300
        }

ShieldedAerospikeSz3HG

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 1300
                maxAmount = 1300
        }

KKAOSS_base_heatshield

    MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 600
                maxAmount = 600
        }

TaurusHeatshield

        MODULE
        {
                charModuleName = shieldChar
                useChar = True
                ablationTempThresh = 500
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                lossConst = 0.1
                lossExp = -7500
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                name = ModuleAblator
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                maxAmount = 1800
                amount = 1800
                name = Ablator
        }

SYheatShield7m

HeatShield0

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 50
                maxAmount = 50
        }

HeatShield1

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 200
                maxAmount = 200
        }

HeatShield2

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }

        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 800
                maxAmount = 800
        }

HeatShield3

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 1800
                maxAmount = 1800
        }

kv1Pod

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 20
                maxAmount = 20
        }

kv2Pod

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 20
                maxAmount = 20
        }

kv3Pod

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 20
                maxAmount = 20
        }

HeatShield1p5

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500

                useChar = True
                charModuleName = shieldChar
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 500
                maxAmount = 500
        }

SXTHeatShieldSize5

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500
        }

        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 3000
                maxAmount = 3000
        }

kadeptHSlarge

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500
        }

        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 80
                maxAmount = 80
        }

kadeptHSmedium

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500
        }

        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 20
                maxAmount = 20
        }

kadeptHSmodest

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500
        }

        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 11.25
                maxAmount = 11.25
        }

kadeptHSsmall

        MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -7500
                lossConst = 0.1
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
                reentryConductivity = 0.01
                ablationTempThresh = 500
        }

        RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 5
                maxAmount = 5
        }

LVT15

MODULE
        {
                name = ModuleAblator
                ablativeResource = Ablator
                lossExp = -15000
                lossConst = 20
                pyrolysisLossFactor = 5000 //10000
                reentryConductivity = 0.12 // aka no change
                ablationTempThresh = 300
                charMax = 1
                charMin = 1

        }
RESOURCE
        {
                name = Ablator
                amount = 30
                maxAmount = 30
        }

Edited August 27, 2018 by linuxgurugamer

Starwaster · August 28, 2018

@linuxgurugamer

I'll take a look at those later. First glance though those are mostly using stock values which shouldn't deplete entirely in a stock environment at stock reentry speeds.

ARE your reentry speeds normal stock speeds for Kerbin or are you playing with a scaled up system? Something scaled up to Real Solar System sizes for instance would eat those shields up pretty quickly if you weren't using Realism Overhaul. Deadly Reentry tries to detect such scaled up systems and compensate, but if it's an unknown mod that is doing the scaling up then it might not be detected. (RSS itself should be detected properly)

IF that is the case then check and see if those configs are what actually show up for those parts in ModuleManager.ConfigCache and maybe post that here for me to take a look at so I can see what the actual final product is.

linuxgurugamer · August 28, 2018

2 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@linuxgurugamer

I'll take a look at those later. First glance though those are mostly using stock values which shouldn't deplete entirely in a stock environment at stock reentry speeds.

ARE your reentry speeds normal stock speeds for Kerbin or are you playing with a scaled up system? Something scaled up to Real Solar System sizes for instance would eat those shields up pretty quickly if you weren't using Realism Overhaul. Deadly Reentry tries to detect such scaled up systems and compensate, but if it's an unknown mod that is doing the scaling up then it might not be detected. (RSS itself should be detected properly)

IF that is the case then check and see if those configs are what actually show up for those parts in ModuleManager.ConfigCache and maybe post that here for me to take a look at so I can see what the actual final product is.

I'm playing GPP, and normal reentries from regular orbit, the values got used in a matter of seconds.

Here is the configcache from the current game: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0nhsl3ivj5l7eg/GPP-DRE_ConfigCache.zip?dl=0

linuxgurugamer · August 28, 2018

As a test, I created a brand new install, and the only mod installed was DRE, and Hyperedit. KSP 1.4.5, DRE 7.7.0. I also installed HyperEdit, and Kerbal Engineer

I created a simple vessel, a Mk1-3 with a 2.5m heatshield and a parachute, and a small engine to slow it down. The heatshield had 800 units of ablator, the Mk1-3 had 10 units of Ab

I hyperedited it into an 80km orbit

Then I used the engine to slow it down so the PE was about 35km, and jettisoned the engine.

Top speed was about 2300 m/s before it really started slowing down.

The heatshield got used up and exploded somewhere around 30-35km of altitude, but the capsule survived

I know DRE is "Deadly", but this is ridiculous. A full heatshield getting used up in a reentry from a low orbit, doesn't make sense

In the following video, it shows that 150 units are used up when it gets to an altitude of 60km. If I'm doing something wrong, please tell me, but this seems to be just a bit too deadly.

Quoting from the OP:

Quote

Be careful how you reenter. Make sure your craft has a heatshield (the Mk1 pod has a built-in heatshield, as do stock spaceplanes; the Mk1-2 needs a heat shield from the Structural tab). For a low Kerbin orbit reentry, try for a periapsis of about 10-20km over Kerbin. do not deploy your parachute until speed has dropped below ~350m/s. (typically you should be at a safe velocity by the time you reach an altitude of 7km)

I had a Pe of 35-45 km, and it still failed.

Edited August 28, 2018 by linuxgurugamer

4x4cheesecake · August 28, 2018

So, I took a look at it and it looks like, the DRE resource 'AblativeShielding' is not going to be applied to other heatshields and I don't know if it is inteded.

From the DeadlyReentry.cfg:

// General config to add / convert modules
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:AFTER[DeadlyReentry]
{
	%leaveTemp = True
	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
		@name = ModuleHeatShield
		@reentryConductivity = 0.001
		%lossExp = -7500
		%lossConst = 1
		%pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		reentryConductivity = 0.001
		depletedMaxTemp = 1200
	}
}

[CUT]

// Parts specific configs
@PART[HeatShield1|HeatShield2|HeatShield3]:FOR[DeadlyReentry]
{
	%leaveTemp = true
	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
		@name = ModuleHeatShield
		@reentryConductivity = 0.001
		@lossConst = 1
		@pyrolysisLossFactor = 600
		depletedMaxTemp = 1200
	}
}

The 'general config' doesn't do anything without changing ':AFTER[DeadlyReentry]' to ':FOR[DeadlyReentry]' but even then, the actual used resource is not getting changed.
The same applie to the 'speficig config' for the stock heat shields, except for the patch ordering.

By changing the 'general config' to (changes marked green):

// General config to add / convert modules
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]
{
	%leaveTemp = True
	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
		@name = ModuleHeatShield
		@reentryConductivity = 0.001
		@ablativeResource = AblativeShielding
		%lossExp = -7500
		%lossConst = 1
		%pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		reentryConductivity = 0.001
		depletedMaxTemp = 1200
		
	}
	@RESOURCE[Ablator]
	{
		@name = AblativeShielding
	}
}

The changes are actually applied and every heatshield using the module 'ModuleAblator' should be affected, but the amount of Ablator will not be changed so it might by a bit OP...that's actually the reason why I don't know if this behaviour is actually intended.

During a quick test with a vessel wich is basically identically with the one used by @linuxgurugamer, roughly 300 units of ablator were consumed during reentry from a 100km orbit, aiming at a Pe of 25km.

Edited August 28, 2018 by 4x4cheesecake

pr4ger · August 28, 2018

On 8/27/2018 at 4:33 PM, Starwaster said:

All parts have their max temps decreased if they exceed sane values. Also, all temperatures are in K (Kelvin) and not Celsius.

Setting leaveTemp = true in ModuleAeroReentry tells Deadly Reentry not to balance max temps.

I see that you submitted some configs for OPT; at first glance they seem acceptable except for the maxTemp for cockpit parts. The assumption for space plane parts in DRE is that the internal frame and hull under the thermal protection system (the skin) is aluminum like in the space shuttle so 1500 is too high. (even 850 is too high but not by very much)

I think I need to see some of the configs of the parts that aren't converting. It's not actually a problem if the ablative resource itself isn't converting and it actually SHOULDN'T convert. If the ablator PartModule is using the old format (from DRE in the days of pre-KSP 1.0) then that would be a big problem.

Thanks for insights in the mechanics of the mod and temperatures. Basically, I have left 850K for all cocpits, even advanced, so it is in line with your logic. For advanced cocpits only skin temp is higher - 2950K vs 2700K of basic ones (let's say they have more advanced thermal protection). I have picked up advanced cocpits based on OPT original temperatures.

I have set 1500K threshold for internal temp for some parts - engines and solid stuff like engine mounts, wings, bi- and tricouplers (being structurally strong and probably without "soft" interior). Could you please give your opinion for internal temp for such a parts?

Also, i have attached new config with legacy parts included, as I have found out that there are a lot of them, like 50% of all OPT parts.

Spoiler


//H_Fuselages
@PART[h_2m_em_fm|h_2m_em_mm|h_2m_nose_fm|h_2m_nose_mm|h_3m_crew_fm|h_3m_crew_mm|h_3m_fuel_fm|h_3m_fuel_mm|h_4m_nose_fm|h_4m_nose_mm|h_drone_fm|h_drone_mm]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0 // If this EVER changes then skinThermalMassModifier needs to be divided by same amount!
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//J_Fuselages
@PART[ij_adaptor|ij_4m_adaptor_variant|j_2m_tanks|j_2m_inlineBoardingRamp|j_deploymentBay|j_3m_rearHatch|j_4m_cargo|j_4m_crew|j_engineMount_4|j_4m_tanks|j_4m_lab|j_4m_service|j_4m_drone|j_4m_droneRCS|j_sas|mk2j_adaptor]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0 // If this EVER changes then skinThermalMassModifier needs to be divided by same amount!
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//K_Fuselages
@PART[jk_3m_adaptor|jk_7m_adaptor|k_3m_fuelTank|k_3m_fuselage|k_6m_cargo|k_6m_fuelTank|k_6m_fuselage|k_7m_cargoTail|k_7m_cargoTail_variant]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0 // If this EVER changes then skinThermalMassModifier needs to be divided by same amount!
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//KH_Fuselages_and_legacy_parts
@PART[name=kh_3m_cargo|kh_3m_fuselage|kh_6m_cargo|kh_6m_fuselage|kh_7m_cargoTail|kh_7m_cargoTail_variant|a_6m_tanks|c_6m_cargo|c_6m_cargoTail|c_6m_tanks|jl_3m_adaptor|jl_7m_adaptor|l_6m_cargo|l_6m_crew|l_6m_fuselage|l_7m_cargoTail|l_8m_cockpit|l_oms_hollow|j_4m_droneOMS|j_oms|k_oms|k_oms_hollow|kh_oms_hollow|b_4m_drone|b_4m_tanks|b_4m_lab|b_4m_tail|b_dropBay_mk2|b2_4m_adaptor_variant|b2_adaptor|bf_adaptor|bf_cargo|bf_cargo_tail|bs_adaptor|mk2b_adaptor]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0 // If this EVER changes then skinThermalMassModifier needs to be divided by same amount!
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//Basic_Cockpits_and_nosecones
@PART[i_4m_cockpit_isp|mk2_nose_opt|mk2_cockpitv2|mk2_cockpit|mk3_shuttle_noseCone|mk3Cockpit_Airliner|i_4m_cockpit_ispb|ils_cockpit_mki|mk23_cockpit|a_cockpit|j_cockpit|k_10m_cockpit_custom|k_10m_cockpit_legacy|b_cockpit|b_cockpit_qs]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15	
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//Hi_Tech_Cockpits_and_nosecones
@PART[phoenix_cockpit|ils_cockpitv2|j_5m_nose|j_6m_cockpit|j_cockpitv2|j_cockpit_qs|j_cockpit_qs_no_intake|k_10m_cockpit]
{
	%maxTemp = 850
	%skinMaxTemp = 2950
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15	
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//Wings_and_solid_parts
@PART[b_2m_bicoupler|wing_1a|winglet_1a|winglet_1b|winglet_1c|j_2m_bicoupler|i_4m_tail|j_docking_port|j_large_docking_port|j_5m_tail|k_2m_bicoupler|k_3m_tricoupler|mk2_ramIntake|opt_pylon_a|opt_pylon_b|opt_stabilizer_a|opt_stabilizer_b|opt_wing_a|opt_wing_a_elevon|opt_wing_b|opt_wing_b_elevon|opt_wing_c|opt_wing_c_elevon1|opt_wing_c_elevon2|opt_winglet_a|opt_winglet_a_elevon|opt_winglet_b|opt_winglet_b_elevon|opt_winglet_c|opt_winglet_c_elevon|mk2_ramIntake|OPTantenna|ab_3m_adaptor|a_cockpit_adaptor|ab_7m_adaptor|c_2m_bicoupler|l_3m_bicoupler|b_engineMount_4]
{
	%maxTemp = 1500
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15	
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}
//Engines_and_RCS
@PART[AAengine|engine_darkDrive|opt_mk2_engine_short|opt_nebula_engine|j_linear_aerospike|opt_oms_black|opt_oms_grey|opt_rcs_black|opt_rcs_grey|opt_retro_rcs|arie73]
{
	%maxTemp = 1500
	%skinMaxTemp = 2706
	%skinThermalMassModifier = 0.43613
	%skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
	%skinMassPerArea = 0.815
	%absorptiveConstant = 0.15	
	%emissiveConstant = 0.85
	%thermalMassModifier = 1.0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAeroReentry
		leaveTemp = true
	}
}

SIde note to linuxgurugamer question - I also had a hard time bringing Mk1 capsule from Mun orbit to Kerbin - 100 ablator is not a guarantee. Aiming at 35km resulted into ablator burn out and explosion, aiming at 20k was successful with enourmous Gees and 2-3 points of ablator left.

linuxgurugamer · August 28, 2018

7 minutes ago, pr4ger said:

SIde note to linuxgurugamer question - I also had a hard time bringing Mk1 capsule from Mun orbit to Kerbin - 100 ablator is not a guarantee. Aiming at 35km resulted into ablator burn out and explosion, aiming at 20k was successful with enourmous Gees and 2-3 points of ablator left.

Watch my video. 800 units of Ablator should be more than enough from LKO for the Mk1-3, yet it explodes. I think that @4x4cheesecake may have hit the nail on the head, though

1 hour ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

The 'general config' doesn't do anything without changing ':AFTER[DeadlyReentry]' to ':FOR[DeadlyReentry]' but even then, the actual used resource is not getting changed.

The FOR isn't really needed, since the patch is included with DRE. On other mods which include their own patches, they would need a NEEDS

Daniel Prates · August 28, 2018

I stopped by to talk about this, only to discover that everyone is talking about it too. Great, not only it shows that lots of people like Deadly Reentry, but also that I am not alone in thinking that this mod got WAY TOO DEADLY in its more recent version!

I did some testing with stock, tantares and corvus parts, and discussed it a lot in the corvus thread with the owner of corvus, and he too was intrigued. My findings is that it is nearly impossible to return capsules from a myriad of stock and mod parts, even in shallow dive slopes, even coming from LKO.

The GUI for Deadly Reentry allows you to set a lot of variables regarding G, but refers to the debug mode if you want to tweak heat properties. I don't know if I wanna do that, TBH.

I will guess that this not revolve only around tweaking the amount of the ablator consumable. Parachutes also suffer a lot in the descents I watched, some exploding even if perfectly facing away from the heat after quickly rising above max temperatures, even in the initial phases of the reentry.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Daniel Prates

4x4cheesecake · August 28, 2018

6 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

The FOR isn't really needed, since the patch is included with DRE. On other mods which include their own patches, they would need a NEEDS

You are right, it is not needed but it is used for a few other nodes in the config so I thought there might be a reason for it and I just don't know about it. There are still a few details about MM I don't understand yet. I try my best to improve and hints from more experienced people like you are always welcome

I'll update my post above.

linuxgurugamer · August 28, 2018

20 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

You are right, it is not needed but it is used for a few other nodes in the config so I thought there might be a reason for it and I just don't know about it. There are still a few details about MM I don't understand yet. I try my best to improve and hints from more experienced people like you are always welcome

I'll update my post above.

The only reason to use FOR is when you have mod A which is providing something and pretending to be mod B, then you would have a FOR in the patch for mod A

Starwaster · August 29, 2018

13 hours ago, pr4ger said:

I have set 1500K threshold for internal temp for some parts - engines and solid stuff like engine mounts, wings, bi- and tricouplers (being structurally strong and probably without "soft" interior). Could you please give your opinion for internal temp for such a parts?

It depends on if they will ever actually reach reach a high enough internal temperature just through operation at full power and without thermal input from external sources. If the answer to that is no then they probably shouldn't be set to 1500....

Starwaster · August 29, 2018

14 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

So, I took a look at it and it looks like, the DRE resource 'AblativeShielding' is not going to be applied to other heatshields and I don't know if it is inteded.

The 'general config' doesn't do anything without changing ':AFTER[DeadlyReentry]' to ':FOR[DeadlyReentry]' but even then, the actual used resource is not getting changed.
The same applie to the 'speficig config' for the stock heat shields, except for the patch ordering.

By changing the 'general config' to (changes marked green):

The changes are actually applied and every heatshield using the module 'ModuleAblator' should be affected, but the amount of Ablator will not be changed so it might by a bit OP...that's actually the reason why I don't know if this behaviour is actually intended.

During a quick test with a vessel wich is basically identically with the one used by @linuxgurugamer, roughly 300 units of ablator were consumed during reentry from a 100km orbit, aiming at a Pe of 25km.

AFTER is used because that config is intended to catch and convert everything that doesn't get an explicit configuration in the FOR phase.

The resource is not changed in that phase because AblativeShielding is Deadly Reentry's legacy resource from before KSP got its own ablative heat shield PartModule. It is retained for compatibility purposes with old save game files. Third party shields should keep whatever resource they were originally configured and they work just fine that way so long as the resource is actually present on the part.

Starwaster · August 29, 2018

@linuxgurugamer the three stock shields have their pyrolysisLossFactor being set to 600 when it probably should be set to 6000 so they're only losing about 1/10th of the flux they should be so they're going to be running hot.... pretty sure that's a bug on my part, I'm looking at this after having just awakened but I don't think I did that deliberately....

That doesn't explain the trouble with the other parts you listed...

4x4cheesecake · August 29, 2018

55 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

AFTER is used because that config is intended to catch and convert everything that doesn't get an explicit configuration in the FOR phase.

The resource is not changed in that phase because AblativeShielding is Deadly Reentry's legacy resource from before KSP got its own ablative heat shield PartModule. It is retained for compatibility purposes with old save game files. Third party shields should keep whatever resource they were originally configured and they work just fine that way so long as the resource is actually present on the part.

You indicated that the partmodule may have changed so I thought this might be the way the mod used to go but it's no longer working and like I said, I don't know if it is inteded. Thanks for clarification

pr4ger · August 29, 2018

4 hours ago, Starwaster said:

It depends on if they will ever actually reach reach a high enough internal temperature just through operation at full power and without thermal input from external sources. If the answer to that is no then they probably shouldn't be set to 1500....

So for engines and their mounts probably could be, for wings and structural parts - no, if I understood you correctly.

One more thing to wonder - mk2 parts from B9 mod are also very low on skin temp threshold. You don't treat them as spaceplanes parts?

linuxgurugamer · August 29, 2018

6 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@linuxgurugamer the three stock shields have their pyrolysisLossFactor being set to 600 when it probably should be set to 6000 so they're only losing about 1/10th of the flux they should be so they're going to be running hot.... pretty sure that's a bug on my part, I'm looking at this after having just awakened but I don't think I did that deliberately....

That doesn't explain the trouble with the other parts you listed...

I just listed all the parts I found which appeared to have the same characteristics as the stock shields. I didn't try the others, but I'll do some tests when I get time.

Unfortunately, I won't have time for about a week and a half, I'm going on a trip in a few days, but will see what I can do. I will have a laptop along, maybe I'll be able to do this on the road

6 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@linuxgurugamer the three stock shields have their pyrolysisLossFactor being set to 600 when it probably should be set to 6000 so they're only losing about 1/10th of the flux they should be so they're going to be running hot.... pretty sure that's a bug on my part, I'm looking at this after having just awakened but I don't think I did that deliberately....

That doesn't explain the trouble with the other parts you listed...

Very odd, because the stock parts already have the PyrolysisLossFactor = 6000, so it look like you are replacing it.

linuxgurugamer · August 29, 2018

Ok, did a quick test.

I changed that 600 to 6000, and the same pod/heat shield combo which blew up now survived. Still used a lot of Ablator, went from 800 to 459, but that's a lot better than exploding

20 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

I did some testing with stock, tantares and corvus parts, and discussed it a lot in the corvus thread with the owner of corvus, and he too was intrigued. My findings is that it is nearly impossible to return capsules from a myriad of stock and mod parts, even in shallow dive slopes, even coming from LKO.

Daniel, what heat shields were you using? If using the stock heat shields, the pyrolysisLossFactor is wrong, needs to be 6000 rather than 600.

20 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

I will guess that this not revolve only around tweaking the amount of the ablator consumable. Parachutes also suffer a lot in the descents I watched, some exploding even if perfectly facing away from the heat after quickly rising above max temperatures, even in the initial phases of the reentry.

Can you be a bit more specific on this? In my small test, I didn't see any problems with the chutes. Is it possible you are opening them too soon? Also, were you using RealChutes or stock chutes?

Daniel Prates · August 29, 2018

27 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Daniel, what heat shields were you using? If using the stock heat shields, the pyrolysisLossFactor is wrong, needs to be 6000 rather than 600.

Can you be a bit more specific on this? In my small test, I didn't see any problems with the chutes. Is it possible you are opening them too soon? Also, were you using RealChutes or stock chutes?

Interesting, that with the typo. I also read your comment in Corvus' thread. Just to be clear, that has to be changed where, exactelly?

Regarding the chutes: i use stock chutes, and of course, the chutes parts provided with the mods. In my scenario (starting from circular 100km, setting peri to 40km and descending), the result was this:

1 - Corvus: shield consumed and blew up, then, the pod went soon after. The chute survived (up until the rest exploded, that is);

2 - Tantares: there is a spherical vostok-like capsule, with it's own chute. Interestingly, beale made it with no ablator, just a high heat resistance. Without DeadlyReentry it survives, but with it.. no chance. The chute was the first to go over the limit, then the capsule;

3 - Stock: I reentered a mk1 capsule with a basic stock inline chute and the basic 1.25 heat shield. The shield consumed then exploded, but the rest survived. The chute barely made it though: it came close to the limit.

linuxgurugamer · August 29, 2018

9 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

Interesting, that with the typo. I also read your comment in Corvus' thread. Just to be clear, that has to be changed where, exactelly?

In the ModuleHeatShield (following is in the Corvus file: Corvus_DRE.cfg, similar for the stock)

MODULE // from DRE's heatshields
{
	name = ModuleHeatShield
	ablativeResource = AblativeShielding
	lossExp = -7500
	lossConst = 1
	pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
	reentryConductivity = 0.001
	ablationTempThresh = 500
	depletedMaxTemp = 1200
	charMin = 1
	charMax = 1
	charAlpha = 1
}

and in DRE, the file: DeadlyReentry.cfg:


// Parts specific configs
@PART[HeatShield1|HeatShield2|HeatShield3]:FOR[DeadlyReentry]
{
	%leaveTemp = true
	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
		@name = ModuleHeatShield
		@reentryConductivity = 0.001
		@lossConst = 1
		@pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		depletedMaxTemp = 1200
	}
}

9 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

1 - Corvus: shield consumed and blew up, then, the pod went soon after. The chute survived (up until the rest exploded, that is);

2 - Tantares: there is a spherical vostok-like capsule, with it's own chute. Interestingly, beale made it with no ablator, just a high heat resistance. Without DeadlyReentry it survives, but with it.. no chance. The chute was the first to go over the limit, then the capsule;

3 - Stock: I reentered a mk1 capsule with a basic stock inline chute and the basic 1.25 heat shield. The shield consumed then exploded, but the rest survived. The chute barely made it though: it came close to the limit.

Oh, so you are referring to the shields getting overheated and then exploding.

Well, it's probably related to the same thing. In my tests, I used a Mk1-3 with a stock heat shield and stock chute, and with the fix, they all survived. I also did the same with the Corvus and using the Corvus heat shield and chute. The shield only had 10-15 Ablator left, but they all survived.

Edited August 29, 2018 by linuxgurugamer

Daniel Prates · August 29, 2018

This is all very relevant as an inquiry @linuxgurugamer but at the end of the day shouldn't the goal be to "tone down" deadly reentry as a whole? It seems to me that the alternate solution would have to be to go out on a part-tweaking spree, changing specs for dozens of parts (maybe more!), when "undeadly-ing" dreadly reentry would appear to be a single-stroke solution. Or am i missing something?

I admit, I went through the heat properties in the alt12 debug menu (as the GUI suggests), and if I had found an easy and intuitive "decrease/increase heat sensitivity" toggle, I would just have used that and forgot about it. But apparently, squad has made it more complicated than that so I didnt dare poking those configs even with a long stick.... this is why I'm asking, is it hard to hardcode a "deadliness level" into Deadly Reentry?

linuxgurugamer · August 29, 2018

2 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

This is all very relevant as an inquiry @linuxgurugamer but at the end of the day shouldn't the goal be to "tone down" deadly reentry as a whole? It seems to me that the alternate solution would have to be to go out on a part-tweaking spree, changing specs for dozens of parts (maybe more!), when "undeadly-ing" dreadly reentry would appear to be a single-stroke solution. Or am i missing something?

I admit, I went through the heat properties in the alt12 debug menu (as the GUI suggests), and if I had found an easy and intuitive "decrease/increase heat sensitivity" toggle, I would just have used that and forgot about it. But apparently, squad has made it more complicated than that so I didnt dare poking those configs even with a long stick.... this is why I'm asking, is it hard to hardcode a "deadliness level" into Deadly Reentry?

Im not the mod author or maintainer, but, once this change is made, it works. And it IS supposed to be harder than stock, otherwise why install it. My problem was that the 600 instead of 6000 made it totally unusable, but now it is. I am looking forward to using it in the future, although I think I will not add it to my current career.

Edited August 30, 2018 by linuxgurugamer

[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

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