This game is for *massive* nerds

[EliteShadowLeo]

Okay, as said by the Devs, Career mode is more aimed towards the newer players so that their learning curve is much better than if they tried sandbox. I mean, I let my brother try the game and he has never played it before and he didnt know what the **** he was doing so a reduced number of parts in the beginning would sort of make it less of a struggle as when he learns, he gets more parts. Career mode is not designed to be a grind, and an ''average player'' like you should have no problem reaching the end of the current career mode when the game simply turns again into sandbox. If you personally are not as ''pro'' as some other people who play the game, then you probably are benefiting from doing the career mode as just jumping straight into sandbox would probably turn your brain into a pancake.

Peace!

-EliteShadowLeo

[Scrogdog]

Okay, as said by the Devs, Career mode is more aimed towards the newer players so that their learning curve is much better than if they tried sandbox.

Yes. I think the problem might be FINDING the science, not obtaining it. Based on assorted posts by new players, I'm not sure the "where" is intuitive. Of course, plenty of help to be found here on the forums, but not all players will read here, and even less will post.

[wminsing]

Haven't read the whole thread, but for orbital missions transmission is currently a waste of time; just land the craft and collect it, and then fly again. Then you only need power for SAS, which you can keep turned off most of the time anyway.

-Will

[BubbaWilkins]

Dear OP,

You've made the same mistake that many before you (including myself) have made. You've pushed your mission objectives past your tech to a point where you are not doing effective SCIENCE! Why would you be in orbit if you did not have sufficient parts and craft designs to actually return to KSP safely from there? You need to change your mission focus. Gather all the SCIENCE you can locally in baby steps, unlock upper tiers of parts, and THEN go to space.

Sure, it is possible to get massive SCIENCE! returns early with the minimal parts, but for most of us, baby steps will be the far better approach.

[jduchock]

I think he is firing his engines just to recharge electricity...

Until you can get batteries, i found it necessary to set yourself into a slight spin while firing engines ever so slightly...this can build up your electricity without altering your pari/apo... just remember to stock enough fuel for a few dozen spins as well as a reentry burn and you should be OK.

Also, dont bother transmitting anything besides a crew report until you get batteries... its a waste

[Luckless]

I think Career mode's use as a tutorial would be greatly improved by the inclusion of a set of tutorial like prompts with suggested goals.

"We here at KSP are all new to this whole 'rocket' and 'science' thing. So lets slap a few of these bits together, go for a short flight, and then we'll collect some data from it and get a better idea of what's going on. We haven't really figured out many things that we think might be kind of important, like electricity and such, but don't worry, our guys are working on it."

Each time you unlock a new stage of the tech tree the user could be offered some ideas of how the parts can be used. Unlock the first decoupler? Provide the idea of multi-stage rockets and tell them how dropping heavier empty stages can make them more efficient.

Maybe even keep a running list of tips based on what is, and isn't, unlocked. If you haven't unlocked any version of lander legs, then have a reminder to the user along the lines of "We haven't really come up with a good way of supporting stuff when we set it down yet. We have dozens of engineers working round the clock on this very important topic. Till we can get them to stop making giant paper air planes from their draft blue prints and actually get to work on a real solution we are going to have to be very careful with how we set down. Might be best to just avoid setting down on moons or other planets for the time being and just do orbital passes of them while we wait."

This offers lots of room for some excellent flavour points to be added into the game with some well polished writing, while not getting in the player's way or restricting them, and still guiding them by providing good and useful nudges in the direction of improving themselves without totally over extending things.

[Aladran]

Yep this game prerequisite is a brain, in good shape, with people knowing how to use it

Meaning that the learning curve is quite steep, but you'll find that any personal achievement you get is lot more rewarding as well!

[Dooz]

<=========== massive nerd

Yes i agree with you

[lazarus1024]

I guess I am a massive nerd then.

I figured out the game back in .16 in about an hour of play time. I more or less mastered just about everything after about 3hrs of playtime (about how long it took to figure out map mode, get to the mun and put something down on it).

It isn't terribly harder, other than having to unlock stuff with career mode, in .22.

Also...I don't entirely understand what you mean about constantly needing to run the engine. Its an orbit, you just free fall around the planet. If you have to run the engine, I think you are doing something wrong.

Only thing I can think of is you are transmitting data back and running the engine to recharge the capsule. Don't, land the capsule/ship and when you land on the top of the screen if you mouse up there is a "recover" option. Costs no power, gives you a lot more science.

Granted I have a lot of play time at this point, but since .22 came out, I've only played for maybe 4hrs or so total and have all of tier 3 unlocked, most of tier 4 and I think one at tier 5. I've also tossed a capsule around the Mun and back and dropped a probe on Minmus (screwed up the descent, so it crashed in to a dozen pieces).

It does take a little figuring out, but if you look at all the controls and read just one or two FAQs (or use the tutorials in Sandbox if you want) on the game, it is relatively straight forward. Learning curve is maybe a couple of hours for most people it seems. Some of the more obscure things take awhile to figure out and some skills take awhile to really hone and master (like aerobraking, landing on bodies, especially with no air, back of the napkin figuring out dV needed for rockets, etc).

[Superfluous J]

If they change the game to not appeal to nerds, I'll stop playing.

[Godot]

...

Only thing I can think of is you are transmitting data back and running the engine to recharge the capsule. Don't, land the capsule/ship and when you land on the top of the screen if you mouse up there is a "recover" option. Costs no power, gives you a lot more science.

...

This ...

transmitting science makes sense in later stages of the game (when you make landing missions to Mun/Minmus or other planets) ... unless you use your own house rules with ragards to transmissons of course ... but at this stage you usually have earned (or at least, have the ability to earn) enough science with flights, (sub-)orbital missions and visits to nthe diferent Biomes around Kerbin, that you should be able to unlock Batteries and maybe also the first solar panels ... and for missions in Kerbins SOI it makes more sense to just return the mission results instead of transmitting them (which also gives the Bonus science for "Recovery of spaceship that has acomplished flight/suborbital/orbital)

[katateochi]

OP I think some of your approach is a bit wrong. The thing I've always loved about KSP is it's a "what happens if you do this" kinda game, it's always been about experimentation and observation and not about having the game tell you what to do. Career mode adds a bit more to this, there is nothing in game that tells you how to make a rocket or about the different biomes around kerbin (and I hope there never will be), you have to discover these for yourself by having the scientific (or nerdy) curiosity to try odd (often fatal) things and see what happens. Perhaps the one thing the game should hint at in career mode is the importance of going EVA, but then again, anyone with a curious approach will try that without having it suggested.

This game does require a fair level of observation and attention to detail. If you do an EVA report while in orbit but don't read the message and just click transmit or store like it was just XP, then you will miss that this EVA report was done over water (for example). Upon seeing that your next thought should be, hmmm I wonder what will happen over land, and then you find some land is grass land and some is....well, I'll leave you to find the rest.

The lack of in game answers has also in part resulted in this very active and wonderful community because we all come together to share our findings, hidden gems and daft exploits. The fact that your first post here is kinda ranty is a bit sad, a "please help me get more science" post (or reading some of the answers to other similar threads) would have probably got you further faster.

If you have managed to make a stable orbit (which from your post is a little unclear cos of the running engine thing) then you should be able to bring around 80 points back from doing a single orbit around the equator. If the lowest point of your orbit is above 70km and you have a little fuel left to deorbit, then you don't require any further power. You can just revolve round kerbin (indefinitely) and look down on your home world and wonder. When you pass over something that looks a bit different, ie the desert, then get out and do an EVA report and hang on to it (don't try to transmit it). If you do that over everything that looks different you will discover several of the different biomes and you'll get a decent amount of points to unlock the next free tech nodes.

The biggest problem about career mode that I see is it makes people too focused on the acquisition of points, like they where just xp. Yes you need to gain points, but you also need to do other experiments that don't earn you points, ie discovering where the atmosphere ends, how many boosters are needed to lift x and so on. So yes, in that respect it is a nerdy game, if by nerdy you mean scientifically minded. Long may it stay that way!

[boxman]

How is it hard when you can earn enough science points just from doing ground missions on kerbins surface?? It is not hard at all to get batteries and i had the exact opposite problem as you, it was way too easy to earn science points.

But I do think they could explain better to new players how exactly science works.

[boxman]

Also...I don't entirely understand what you mean about constantly needing to run the engine. Its an orbit, you just free fall around the planet. If you have to run the engine, I think you are doing something wrong.

I am pretty sure he is talking about electricity since you dont have any batteries, solar panels or rtg at the start.

[Scotius]

So? I got to the Mun and back without batteries and any power source. It just took a bit of timing, carefully setting free return trajectory to Kerbin, and being frugal with energy. I kept data i gathered onboard, recovered the capsule and Jeb, and cashed in enough science to go to Minmus next comfortably. And it's not like we got this game yesterday - there is enough data gathered by community to help anyone.

[KrisM]

I'm sure it's been said to death, but Career Mode is brand new and the game is only on version .22, so there's a long way to go, kinks to work out, etc. I'm sure it will get better with time

[Tw1]

OP I think some of your approach is a bit wrong. The thing I've always loved about KSP is it's a "what happens if you do this" kinda game, it's always been about experimentation and observation and not about having the game tell you what to do.

-snip-

So yes, in that respect it is a nerdy game, if by nerdy you mean scientifically minded. Long may it stay that way!

I completely agree. If there ever is a "set" path we are supposed to take, I'll probably lose interest. Much of the fun is in mucking about, inquiring, being inspired, intrigued, discovering.

If it pushes me to move on to Duna, when I've just been inspired to set up bases on Mun an Minmus, or like the look of Jool, I'll be very annoyed. Who's running this space program, me, or the computer? I don't want my plans to feel invalidated.

The biggest problem about career mode that I see is it makes people too focused on the acquisition of points, like they where just xp.

I agree. I hope as science expands, we get more numbers based data, like regolith composition that varies as you move around, or magnetic fields that can be measured and plotted.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Tw1

[gtmattz]

I think the OP may have a point in that the tech tree can be a little frustrating, however what people need to keep in mind is that this is the very first iteration, and the entire career mode is inevitably going to change as time goes by. I feel as if an awful lot of people do not think about the fact that KSP is very much a game under development, and fail to realise that just about everything we experience in the game is subject to change...

[Toastie_Buns]

I personally find the tech tree to be a little irritating. While it's essential to unlock certain parts, it's almost akin to buying those packs of pokeman cards when you were a kid. You get ONE useful thing and the rest are utterly useless.

What I'd prefer to see is a timed research tree, where instead of unlocking a bulk of items, you'd be forced to slowly research the items and indeed select the ones you wished to have.

This would not only make it easier to unlock the desirable items (example: I need nukes but I have no requirement for advanced chemical engines) it would also mean that you weren't wasting your time unlocking something you'd never use. Play-style is then unique, each person unlocking what they see fit rather than being funneled into essentially buying and building the same rockets to perform similar tasks.

Basic example: Start off with a Tier 0 rocket. The basic player takes it into orbit, does science. The advanced player goes to the moon, does science. While the advanced player is technically ahead in science, the more advanced unlockable would take longer to research than the basic unlockable, forcing both parties to progress and around the same rate.

s'just my two cent on this. Other than that I'm completely happy. If you don't understand the game, there ARE tutorials in the form of scenarios. Granted, not great ones, but still.

[CaptainArchmage]

Gemini had thrusters for controlling the spacecraft's attitude, and it also had fuel cells to generate electrical power. I understand the frustration though.

I made it to the Mün's surface and back on my second launch in career mode, and I had to keep an eye on the battery power at all times.

[PDCWolf]

What you, op, say is something I like from this game. Not only do you need to be interested in the game, which is good, but you also need to be interested in space or how it works. You can be the average player that sees something hard and says "lol 2hard" and goes away, or you can put a bit of effort and learn incredible stuff.

Or you can download mechjeb for sure.

[Superfluous J]

I made it to the Mün's surface and back on my second launch in career mode, and I had to keep an eye on the battery power at all times.

Actually you don't. With a Kerbal at the controls, you can activate the engine even with 0 power.

[polimerjones]

"If you don't have the time to play career mode then play sandbox.

The whole point of career mode is to be a challenge that forces you to accomplish tasks with limited parts. I actually find the progression to be quite balanced, even perhaps on the easy side. You can get quite a bit of early research just shooting rockets to different parts of Kerbin and doing experiments there."

I agree with this. The point of the science tree wasn't for the experienced players it was for the inexperienced. I is trying to teach the new players how to use the basic parts first before they move onto the advanced parts.

[numerobis]

As to the title of the thread, I disagree. I don't think the mass of the nerd has anything to do with it; I'm very skinny.

[samstarman5]

There is no doubt that KSP isn't for everyone, but then again not one game is. I find zero appeal in the idea of playing Angry Birds(though there are relating concepts), and I haven't played a war shooter steadily since Medal of Honor:Allied Assault. I find zero appeal in simplified combat and fighting over who gets to fly the next spawned plane. But that is what sort of gamer I am.

I applaud your effort to support your argument, though your effort is lacking. If KSP was just for massive nerds, it wouldn't have as much attention, and less so than the likes of Magic The Gathering and League of Legends. And yet I see regular gamers do playthroughs of it on Youtube like crazy, inspiring many other regular gamers to give it a shot. Zisteau just recently started his series (

) and he seems to do it more for the lulz, but he does apply himself to achieve goals.

I have been hearing a lot of griefing over career mode, with little perspective on the fact that this is just the first development on that mode with the concept that there are going to be changes as well as additions. Yes, career mode as it is now has its hiccups. Instead of complaining that it is crazy hard or just for nerds, maybe we should try supplying some ideas and concepts to what could be done with career mode a better concept. It should not be dumbed down, hell no. But it should make more sense and fit in better with how we understand a space program has gone before. If there is one thing I would suggest, it would be putting a decoupler in tier one. There is also every reason to believe there is going to be more things to gather science from, so staying in Kerbin orbit for more missions doesn't seem like a redundant function. There should be more emphasis on getting more out of repeating missions...to a degree. Especially when one considers we will have to be paying for parts eventually.

Anyway, I feel I got a bit off topic. While career mode as it has started seems a bit frustrating, swearing it off without thought that we should be contributing to improving it is simply wrong. If you can see some ways to improve career mode, then share it with the devs, constructively. If you don't, then don't give up, it will be improved. For the time being, there is and always will be sandbox mode. You can also use sandbox mode to try ideas to how to change up the r&d tiers, and contribute that to the developers. That is part of our function of being early access players.