[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[taniwha]

15kt... that's a big station :)

[CMDR tobi]

is there a version that places the parts into the tech tree? or even the community tech tree mod?

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, CMDR tobi said:

is there a version that places the parts into the tech tree? or even the community tech tree mod?

The parts should already be in the stock techtree.  If you open the part .cfg files in a text editor you'll find which node they are.

The next version if the Simplex TechTree will support EPL.

Peace.

 

[Jasseji]

Just want to say, came back after some time and love the changes, especially those KAS-Placable construction nodes

 

[taniwha]

I have released version 6.3.3 of Extraplanetary Launchpads.

Changes from 6.3.2:

• Better distribution of work over multiple resources. This fixes KSP lockups that would sometimes occur when multiple resources were required for the build.
• Recyclers are now controllable by kerbals on EVA. Be very careful, though, as the recycler is hungry and kerbals go well with LiquidFuel.
• Insta-build on resource exhaustion fixed.
• New part: 10m diameter landing pad. It can be targeted (includes alignment indicators, but works only within 200m (KSP limit, though NayvFish DPAI might help) and is BACKWARDS (ie, DPAI mods will point you nose down)). Can be used as a construction point, too (ie, it doubles as a launchpad).
• Pad mass correctly updated when a build is finished.
• KAS legacy pipe strut supported by the resource manager (ie, acts as a module separator).
• KAS resource link supported in both docked and undocked modes. Undocked is required for successful use with the landing pad. Yes, KAS provides its own gui, but EL's provides an alternative view of your resources.
• Many little optimizations and erroneous log spam cleanups.
• Avoid exceptions in the resource manager when symmetry gets broken. No idea how it happened, but covering the case is necessary.
• Disabled decouplers (such as the hardpoint) do not create a new module in the resource manager.
• CCK support cleaned up: EL does not create its own category if CCK is detected, and the wild spam of cck tags cleaned up.
• Old launchpad and runway have been deprecated.
• Survey stake collider is now 10cm across: makes it easier to grab using KIS.
• Build ETA fixes: estimated time is much more stable and ETAs within 60s no longer update the KAC alarm.
• Survey stakes once again take the name of the kerbal placing them. This was broken a few KIS versions ago, but I had sent a PR to Igorz and then forgotten to update EL.
• Survey sites can be renamed via the EL build window. Thus does a mass rename of the stakes in the site. If the new site name matches a nearby site, the sites will be merged.
• Survey builds force the situation of the built craft to be landed instead of prelauch, and ensure the landedAt string is clear. This fixes problems with bases built by EL not completing contracts.
• Launch clamps with rotated heads handled correctly when finding the bottom of the vessel.
• The planning (pre-build) display in the build window no longer has sliders for optional resources. Instead, the resource capacity is shown (default fill is still shown, along with availability). This should clear up confusion with survey builds and node builds as no transfer is performed.
• Bad (high)lighting effects on many parts fixed.

As to why undocked mode is required for the KAS resource link, see the last few minutes of this (note that the incorrect alignment markers have since been fixed):

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by taniwha

[LatiMacciato]

First of all CONGRATS! (loved the landing hehe)

Since I wrote the patch for optional support for non-tagged parts I love the update and how the tags are now sorted in a useful manner, also I love the new parts. Can't wait to see them in action!

I'm also aware that modders/maintainers need to add cck-el tags to their parts that are designed to use EL or should the tags be EL only?

One more question: will we be able to cover at least partially the pollution of remelting/smelting the mats?

Oh and maybe playing with KSP's part collision system is a partial solution for the drop rocket issue at the end of your video. Maybe KJR is in the way or has some issues inbetween there too but that is all guessing.

It's yet amazing to see how your functions add up to KSP and other mods that making use of EL.

Great Stuff!!

Edited December 22, 2018 by LatiMacciato

[taniwha]

@LatiMacciato First, I must thank you for that patch. It is unfortunate that I had to remove the MM wildcards, but they were causing problems with deprecated parts in the CCK tab.

I'd really rather not mess with KSP's collision system. Things are fragile enough as it is, no need to add magic sauce to the already existing kraken bait.

I think EL's module category tabs will be sufficient for now, so I don't think there's any need to get other mod makers to add cck-el tags unless they want to.

[LatiMacciato]

That's fair enough. Yes, the wildcard search is not required nor mandatory under the current circumstances. Since every maintainer should take care of their parts (functionality-wise and mesh-wise) it's perfectly ok you tag the EL parts only. I'm glad I could help out and agree with the current policy of EL.

Let's hope KSP 1.6 is not causing too much of an issue, I haven't had much time to see it yet. As for KSP 1.5.1 (which I'm at now) things doing good, including KIS/KAS.

Oh I just had another idea for the pollution, a filter part that filters the converter's output. I like collecting and recycling resources.
Otherwise If at some point KSP has a climate system (or some mod adds this) then this pollution resources could interact with it.

[Sauge]

Hi,

I've been using EL for while now mainly with big orbital station for now but I've run into a issue where the game freezes on finalize build, my best guess, since i cant find anything specific in logs, is simply because of part count usually after several reloads it manages to load after all and than it work fine. Is there anyway that I could help this? ie. reducing some settings or something?

[taniwha]

@Sauge: The best thing you can do to help is get me your save file from just before the lockup (quicksave.sfs after hitting F5), your mod list, and your KSP.log file (while you said there was nothing interesting in it, there may be other info of interest to me in there).

Part count alone should not cause lockups, but there might be a bug in EL that gets it stuck in a loop for large vessels, especially in the resource manager as it does go through the part-tree in various ways.

[edit] another possibility I thought of is a bug in EL's resource transfer handling: it may have a bug similar to what caused lockups when building with multiple resources.

Edited December 28, 2018 by taniwha

[theJesuit]

10 hours ago, Sauge said:

Hi,

I've been using EL for while now mainly with big orbital station for now but I've run into a issue where the game freezes on finalize build, my best guess, since i cant find anything specific in logs, is simply because of part count usually after several reloads it manages to load after all and than it work fine. Is there anyway that I could help this? ie. reducing some settings or something?

Hi Sauge,

Are you running KSP 1.6?  This is happening to me on 1.6.  I'm not saying that to complain - I just realised the OP is still 1.5.1!  But just wondering.

Peace.

EDIT, same thing happens 1.5.1.  I'm trying a different version of EPL.

EDIT2 - Yea, definitely a 6.3.3 issue @taniwha  The same build works with 6.3.2, but freezes up and crashes ksp in 6.3.3.  Did the resource thing you thought changed between 6.3.2?

Also, what are the stands (launchclamps?) that are holding up the base in in your video above?

EDIT3 - just ran again with my AngleCan mods (testing a Reources release) not included and it did it again on 6.3.2 (KSP 1.5.1).  I'll keep testing a run a Issue on Github.

Yes I first experienced this (admitidly haven't built anything in a very long time) when building with two resources, but this is a vanilla issue as well - Keridian Dynamics tank and side launch.  It did work once, but not again. with 6.3.3. or 6.3.2.  I've PMed you the code.

Edited December 28, 2018 by theJesuit

[Sauge]

8 hours ago, taniwha said:

@Sauge: The best thing you can do to help is get me your save file from just before the lockup (quicksave.sfs after hitting F5), your mod list, and your KSP.log file (while you said there was nothing interesting in it, there may be other info of interest to me in there).

Part count alone should not cause lockups, but there might be a bug in EL that gets it stuck in a loop for large vessels, especially in the resource manager as it does go through the part-tree in various ways.

[edit] another possibility I thought of is a bug in EL's resource transfer handling: it may have a bug similar to what caused lockups when building with multiple resources.

on it I should have my backup from 1.5 before I was trying if 1.6 would help (or even work for that matter)

@taniwha

Here  is modlist https://pastebin.com/RtZKkxea

Here is .ckan http://wikisend.com/download/783112/EL1.5.ckan

Here is save file http://wikisend.com/download/592288/persistent.sfs (the build is completed on kerbal orbital shipayrd)

Here is the log http://wikisend.com/download/981160/KSP.log

49 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Hi Sauge,

Are you running KSP 1.6?  This is happening to me on 1.6.  I'm not saying that to complain - I just realised the OP is still 1.5.1!  But just wondering.

 

Actually I am and it was one thing why I updated (was hoping it could fix it, and in my opinion it helped a bit) in first place but as you said yourself same thing happens even on 1.5.1

Edited December 28, 2018 by Sauge
Added links

[theJesuit]

@taniwha i went for a more vanilla launch trial with fancy new EL launchpad2 no worries (except when I tried something with launch clamps .  Perhaps then the issue is with Keridian Dynamics? Except that it would just that once when the build happened okay with the KD side launcher (as in the file) with a 6.3.3 build, save reload game with 6.3.2 and then finalise.

Oh well, I'll keep fiddling.  Also can you pleae let me know what the base Lance clamp things are in your video? Is that a KIS/KAS thing?

Peace.

[LastStarDust]

First of all, thank you for this wonderful mod. Today I played KSP after some months of inactivity and I noticed two issues with EPL (one old and one new).

The old one is that the vessel productivity doesn't get updated (increased) in real time but only on vessel load. The productivity depends on Kerbal skills and location (inside the vessel), so if a Kerbal goes on EVA the productivity is changed in real time (most probably reduced). But when a Kerbal goes back to the vessel the productivity is not updated until the vessel or the game save is reloaded.

The new issue is that, when loading a vessel, the Survey Stakes that were on the ground are like floating in midair (but still fixed). Anyway, they are not detected by the vessel anymore. So I have to send a Kerbal to reattach them to the ground. But then the vessel productivity is decreased and I have to reload the vessel. But then the Survey Stakes are floating and I have to send a Kerbal ... and this evil loop goes on and on.

Am I the only one to experience these issues or are they already known?

EPL 6.3.3.0

MKS Constellation

EL-MKS Departizing 1.0

KSP 1.5.1

OS Linux Ubuntu 18.04 64 bits

Edited January 5, 2019 by LastStarDust

[LatiMacciato]

@LastStarDust mind I ask: Do you use WorldStabilizer?

As far as my memory goes WS lifts all vessels/parts from ground and gently sets them back down. What helps me with my vessels is uninstalling WS and using only @Lisias's fork of KerbalJointReinforcement (KJR/L) that nails everything together like a charm, even to the ground. Also MKS' feature of attaching a ground tether is a very useful tool (doesn't count for the survey stake).

Regards, hope this helped.

Edited January 5, 2019 by LatiMacciato
attaching a t too much :P

[LastStarDust]

1 minute ago, LatiMacciato said:

@LastStarDust mind I ask: Do you use WorldStabilizer?

As far as my memory goes WS lifts all vessels/parts from ground and gently sets them back down. What helps me with my vessels is uninstalling WS and using only @Lisias's fork of KerbalJointReinforcement (KJR/L) that nails everything together like a charm, even to the ground. Also MKS' feature of attatching a ground tether is a very useful tool (doesn't count for the survey stake).

Regards, hope this helped.

Hello! I don't use WS but I noticed that exact behavior every time that the vessels are loaded (they are loaded in midair and then gently set back down). I suspect that MKS is implementing or packaging something like WS. I also use KJR continued v3.3.5.

[taniwha]

@LastStarDust I need double check productivity updates anyway. I've noticed that it takes a while for kerbals in suitable command seats (namely, the rocket builder with its external seats) to "punch in" on scene load. I'll pay closer attention to productivity next time I do some EVAing.

As for the survey stakes: it's not the survey stakes not being landed causing your problems (though that will cause other problems, like stakes exploding when you warp), but rather the survey station itself. Something is keeping your main vessel off the ground. The survey station does not check whether the stakes are landed, but it does check whether its own vessel is landed.

[LastStarDust]

49 minutes ago, taniwha said:

@LastStarDust I need double check productivity updates anyway. I've noticed that it takes a while for kerbals in suitable command seats (namely, the rocket builder with its external seats) to "punch in" on scene load. I'll pay closer attention to productivity next time I do some EVAing.

As for the survey stakes: it's not the survey stakes not being landed causing your problems (though that will cause other problems, like stakes exploding when you warp), but rather the survey station itself. Something is keeping your main vessel off the ground. The survey station does not check whether the stakes are landed, but it does check whether its own vessel is landed.

Thank you very much for the hints. I will let you know if I find out something else.

[LatiMacciato]

1 hour ago, LastStarDust said:

KJR continued v3.3.5.

ok, well KJR Continued is not KJR/L from @Lisias. These are sort of different forks but works both equally. For me personally KJR/L is working better but might not cause a solution for the lift of your vessels.

I also use KD and it's large square launchpad connected via KAS 2.0 resource fuel transfer connection Hose-70 (yellow one in docked mode), after all parts connected I apply the ground tether from MKS and my base is nailed down and there's no floating stuff anymore. I also apply or re-tggle the ground tether after I exchange parts.

Hope this helps.

[LastStarDust]

21 hours ago, LatiMacciato said:

ok, well KJR Continued is not KJR/L from @Lisias. These are sort of different forks but works both equally. For me personally KJR/L is working better but might not cause a solution for the lift of your vessels.

I also use KD and it's large square launchpad connected via KAS 2.0 resource fuel transfer connection Hose-70 (yellow one in docked mode), after all parts connected I apply the ground tether from MKS and my base is nailed down and there's no floating stuff anymore. I also apply or re-tggle the ground tether after I exchange parts.

Hope this helps.

What is KD?

I usually apply the ground tether, too ... I will try to reapply it just in case. Maybe it has become disabled in the meantime.

Another solution could be to use the MKS ground launchpad like this old base of mine:

https://i.imgur.com/IJbDGIP.png

[LatiMacciato]

1 minute ago, LastStarDust said:

What is KD?

I usually apply the ground tether, too ... I will try to reapply it just in case. Maybe it has become disabled in the meantime.

Another solution could be to use the MKS ground launchpad like this old base of mine:

https://i.imgur.com/IJbDGIP.png

KeridianDynamics .. another mod that is built upon EL

[Aaroneytor98]

A consultation. Is this for 1.4.2? I didn't know.

for which versions this

[taniwha]

@Aaroneytor98: I don't know if 6.3.3 will wok with 1.4.2, but 6.2.2 should. Just edit the version number in the download URL.

[LastStarDust]

On 1/5/2019 at 5:22 PM, taniwha said:

@LastStarDust I need double check productivity updates anyway. I've noticed that it takes a while for kerbals in suitable command seats (namely, the rocket builder with its external seats) to "punch in" on scene load. I'll pay closer attention to productivity next time I do some EVAing.

As for the survey stakes: it's not the survey stakes not being landed causing your problems (though that will cause other problems, like stakes exploding when you warp), but rather the survey station itself. Something is keeping your main vessel off the ground. The survey station does not check whether the stakes are landed, but it does check whether its own vessel is landed.

You are right. If the vessel is properly landed the "floating" survey stakes are correctly recognized ... but they explode as soon as I enter warp, rendering them pretty useless ...

[taniwha]

12 hours ago, LastStarDust said:

If the vessel is properly landed the "floating" survey stakes are correctly recognized ... but they explode as soon as I enter warp, rendering them pretty useless ... 

I've had survey stakes survive multiple visits to the site (along with multiple time-warps with them loaded), and I've had other stakes that survived maybe one or two scene loads. While I have determined that the stake getting nailed to space while above the ground is the cause, I have yet to determine why the stake is off the ground in the first place. KIS does properly put the part in contact with the ground before nailing the part to space, but that's at initial placement. I have yet to look into what it does on scene load.

As a side-note, with the help of getsome2030 (twitch name), I have determined why vessels with launch clamps get pushed into the ground causing the launch clamps to twich when coming out of time-warp. In his particular tests, he had a base on legs (my DGT-NoLaunchClamp (cf Diamond Grid)) with angled supports going from the clamps to the core of his base. The core consisted of various large resource tanks (including Metal (very dense) and MetalOre (rather dense). The root part of the vessel was attached to the tanks. The mass of the tanks was pulled down by gravity, bending the joints in the angled support. This is all find and dandy (and what one would expect physically), but... when KSP packs a vessel (ie, puts it on rails when going into time-warp or when you save your game), KSP straightens out those joints (very easy to see with a noodle rocket in orbit that is busy flexing and you start warping). The problem is that when KSP straightens those joints, it does so relative to the root part, which has been pulled down from its unstressed position. This means that the on-rails positions of the launch clamp bases are also moved down... into the ground. Thus, when the vessel is unpacked (coming out of time warp or otherwise loading the scene) and the colliders are enabled, the colliders are in the ground and PhysX attempts to force them out, but the launch clamps have been nailed to space and thus cannot move. This leads to an irresistible force acting on an unmovable object and thus interesting things occur (such as kraken strikes). I am uncertain, but I suspect it may be a similar story for large vessels that have not been tied down via launch clamps getting thrown into space when unpacked (remember that irresistible force, but it's now acting on a movable object). It might even be a similar thing for wheels and docking.

Until something can be done about the "incorrect" straightening of the joints (assuming anything can be done, but I do have some ideas), there is a workaround that getsome2030 verified: ensure the root part of the base cannot be pulled down by the massive parts. There are various ways to accomplish this. eg, root in direct contact with the ground (includes making one of the launch clamps root), massive parts in direct contact with the ground, root well supported and massive parts on separate supports connected to the the root part's section via (semi)flexible links (KAS's resource pipe is great for this as it is fully flexible).