[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[0Pat]

I'm using 1.10 and I cannot select ship to build from disposable pad. Haven't tried 1.9 so I don't know if it is a version problem, or some other mods. Anyone else has the same problem?

[Firegecko87]

1 hour ago, 0Pat said:

I'm using 1.10 and I cannot select ship to build from disposable pad. Haven't tried 1.9 so I don't know if it is a version problem, or some other mods. Anyone else has the same problem?

Yes I am having exactly the same issue. Must have something to do with the latest KSP update?

[darthgently]

I apologize for not reading the entire thread to find an answer but I want to play with EPL and want to know if the Kethane mod is still required for metalworking.  I'm trying to reduce mods to just the core that I need to enjoy the challenges of kerbaling in space and would like to try EPL in that select group but a small red flag popped up when I read an older post about a kethane mod req.  Thanks in advance, and a bajillion thanks for all the creative and administrative work keeping a big mod going

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, darthgently said:

I apologize for not reading the entire thread to find an answer but I want to play with EPL and want to know if the Kethane mod is still required for metalworking.  I'm trying to reduce mods to just the core that I need to enjoy the challenges of kerbaling in space and would like to try EPL in that select group but a small red flag popped up when I read an older post about a kethane mod req.  Thanks in advance, and a bajillion thanks for all the creative and administrative work keeping a big mod going

No need to read the entire thread. Just the OP. Or even the manual linked in the OP. 

[Sibiro]

@taniwha I've tried to run EL on 1.10 and has got the problems similar to what was already reported - the ship cannot be selected in ship list UI. Quick debug shows that the main issue is about some kind of a new KSP pipeline api approach - the callback OnFileSelected is not fired (the one that is assigned in ELCraftBrowser.Spawn). However, OnConfigNodeSelected is fired and seem to be working well.

Adding the following callback function near other assignments (like, cb.OnBrowseCancelled = onCancel;) seem to be fixing the main issue (by the way, OnBrowseCancelled is fired as expected):

cb.OnConfigNodeSelected = 
    delegate (ConfigNode n, LoadType t) {
        Debug.Log($"[CraftBrowserDialog] OnConfigNodeSelected - " + cb.selectedEntry.fullFilePath);
        onFileSelected(cb.selectedEntry.fullFilePath, t);
    };

 

At the same time, I'm still experiencing quite a few issues, unrelated to 1.10, I believe. Most of them seem to be due to various unexpected mod interactions (I have about 90 installed). I'm currently looking into those and plan to prepare some notes and solutions for you (and maybe a pull request) based on my findings. This will probably take a few days, as I'm not an experienced modder.

[Sibiro]

@taniwha I think I found the root issue with mods incompatibilities in my case.

When getBuildCost() for selected craft is called, the temporary virtual craft is spawned to calculate required resources and kerbal hours. As a part of the initialization, ModulesOnStart() is called for each part, which is necessary to do the work. The problem is that kOSProcessor initialization triggers OrbitDriver initialization (to set up kOS variables state, I suppose). At the same time, the temporary craft has NaN orbit, because it's not actually a valid craft, so OrbitDriver removes the craft. It happens instantly, right within foreach parts initialization, so foreach fails as well as the resources calculation.

This is the relevant part of the log file:

ObT : NaN
M : NaN
E : NaN
V : NaN
Radius: NaN
vel: [NaN, NaN, NaN]
AN: [1, 0, 0]
period: 0

[OrbitDriver Warning!]: EL craftVessel - DunaMiner-2 had a NaN Orbit and was removed.

So, I've changed the following part of getBuildCost()

foreach (Part part in craftVessel.parts) {
	part.ModulesOnStart ();
}

To this:

foreach (Part part in craftVessel.parts) {
	if (part.Modules.Contains("kOSProcessor")) {
		var kos = part.Modules["kOSProcessor"];
		if (kos != null) {
			part.Modules.Remove(kos);
		}
	}

	part.ModulesOnStart();
}

Because temporary craft doesn't really need any kOS processor module activated. The overall part is still there, so the construction cost should not be affected.

My preliminary checks show that the ships with kOS processor on board can be calculated and built. I'll play a bit more with this and prepare a pull request in the repo.

(At the moment, I don't see any other incompatibilities in my setup)

[darthgently]

16 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

No need to read the entire thread. Just the OP. Or even the manual linked in the OP. 

I read the OP and the manual.  I always RTFM first.  That is how I knew to ask the question about kethane in the first place.  The OP was posted awhile ago and ksp mod docs typically get updated far less often and with less accuracy than the code.  It seemed plausible something might have changed in the code, but not the OP or the docs, in the intervening months.  So thanks for the assurance that the OP and manual are completely up to date.  Good to know and I appreciate your answering at all given the high ratio of unanswered, but reasonable, questions, I see posted in various ksp forums

Edited July 7, 2020 by darthgently

[taniwha]

@darthgently The manual only recommends Kethane, it does not say that Kethane is required. Kethane has not been required since KSP 1.0 (or was it 0.90? whenever KSP got stock ISRU).

[darthgently]

25 minutes ago, taniwha said:

@darthgently The manual only recommends Kethane, it does not say that Kethane is required. Kethane has not been required since KSP 1.0 (or was it 0.90? whenever KSP got stock ISRU).

I think this may have been what made me wonder (in the OP recommended list):

Kethane. Allows hot-spot mining of MetalOre. old thread (for history).

My question probably should have been "What is hot-spot mining"?  The old thread link isn't working so I ask

Edited July 7, 2020 by darthgently

[taniwha]

1 minute ago, darthgently said:

My question probably should have been "What is hot-spot mining"?

100% extraction rate vs the rather low (don't remember, but less than 20%) using only stock.

[darthgently]

Just now, taniwha said:

100% extraction rate vs the rather low (don't remember, but less than 20%) using only stock.

Ok, I'm clear on it now.  Thank you for clarifying and all your effort, I know it takes a lot of work

[martianrock]

I am also unable to open ship picker UI in 1.10. tested on a clean install (EL and only mods required by EL - KIS, MM etc)

[Not a Spy]

this mod could use a retexture

[Tonka Crash]

6 minutes ago, Not a Spy said:

this mod could use a retexture

Let us know when you get those done, 

[Sibiro]

@taniwha I've created pull request for you with the changes that should (in theory) fix the issue with KSP 1.10 as well as compatibility issue with kOS.

[Not a Spy]

8 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

Let us know when you get those done, 

i cant do that, just fantisizing

[goldenpsp]

3 hours ago, Not a Spy said:

i cant do that, just fantisizing

"I don't feel like learning what it takes to make textures so instead I will tell those who volunteer their free time that they should"

FTFY

[Not a Spy]

1 minute ago, goldenpsp said:

"I don't feel like learning what it takes to make textures so instead I will tell those who volunteer their free time that they should"

FTFY

sheez,  i can texture, just my textures would be a downgrade from what it is now

[goldenpsp]

1 minute ago, Not a Spy said:

sheez,  i can texture, just my textures would be a downgrade from what it is now

Practice makes perfect.  To be blunt @Tonka Crash was being more polite but your 

12 hours ago, Not a Spy said:

this mod could use a retexture

Is a pretty rude comment to someone who volunteers lots of their free time for many years to keep a mod up to date and feature rich.

[Not a Spy]

Just now, goldenpsp said:

Practice makes perfect.  To be blunt @Tonka Crash was being more polite but your 

Is a pretty rude comment to someone who volunteers lots of their free time for many years to keep a mod up to date and feature rich.

ok, sorry, and yes i am practicing, im making a mod of my own at the moment

[taniwha]

2 hours ago, Not a Spy said:

i am practicing, im making a mod of my own at the moment

\o/

There is no can't. "Can't" really means "don't know how", so learn how.

There is no difficult. "Difficult" really means "not enough practice", so practice more.

The above way of thinking got me from only just barely being able to count to 10 in Japanese when I was 32 to now living in Japan speaking the language fairly fluently and being able to read it... well enough to survive (and get a forklift license (training and tests all in Japanese), even, though I haven't used it much). I even worked in a Japanese factoring (operating a CNC lathe) for a few years.

To address your original point: yeah, EL could do with nicer textures and better models for some things. As to why EL's artwork has been mostly neglected:

When I took over EL, it was in a very raw state (no offense, and many many thanks to @skykooler for getting the basic idea working). The artwork was meh but kind of on-par for the time (it aged very quickly, though). However, there was no point in me working on EL's artwork then because there was no point in having beautiful models when the code fell over if you looked at it wrong. Spawning vessels was HORRIBLY unreliable. You could build only on the surface. You had to have all required resources on hand to do a build (ie, a 1000t ship needed 1000t of rocket parts instantly). You had to have a large and bulky launchpad on the site to do any building (getting one there was... interesting). Transferring resources to the build was a nightmare (try right-clicking EL's app button some time, especially on a space station with docked vessels). You could not extend a vessel with permanent attachments. Recycling was... iffy and error prone. EL

And by the time EL began to stabilize, other modders were using EL with their own parts that were much nicer than what I had time to create. That's not to say I can't model. I'm not great at it, but I'm more programmer than artist so guess where most of my "practice" times goes 

Improvements to EL over the years (off the top of my head):

• Build stability
• Playable recycling
• Orbital construction
• Targetable parts
• Subassembly support
• Timed builds (no more insane storage requirements)
• Deconstruction (consequence of timed builds)
• Survey sites
• Level construction on steep terrain (using launch clamps or Diamond Grid's no-launch clamps)
• Two experience systems (both stock (level) and via Kerbal Stats (timed experience))
• Recipes (not used much yet, but I believe @Angel-125 uses it a little)
• Attached construction
• Resource manager
• Unmanned construction (tbh, this is how EL was in the beginning before timed construction, but...)
• Spawn adjustment and visible craft hulls.
• Documentation
• probably some things I've forgotten

To be honest, the list isn't that long, but some of those features took months to get working, all done during my Copious Free Time (tm).

Many of EL's parts were inherited, though some of those I've since deprecated so they're no longer visible, but ones I added:

• Recycling bins: meeeeh. My first KSP models.
• Orbital dock: very simple but I rather like it that way. When developing the orbital construction code, I slapped a senior docking port on that 1.25m round to square truss adapter and really liked the look of it, so I used that as the base of the design.
• Workshop: not my greatest achievement, but the workstations in the IVA aren't too bad.
• Survey stake: super simple but functional. Has an easter egg (hard to find these days, but I think you can equip one using KIS and thus should be findable)
• Mallet: not too bad for diffuse-only. Has another easter egg (and an in-joke with my mom (I told her about it and she laughed (and shuddered at the memory: she does NOT like cockroaches))). (equip with KIS to find).
• Micro-pad: it serves its purpose. It's meant to be an eye-sore as "hey, don't stand here" and it is a very temporary part.
• Control reference: another super-simple functional part.
• Landing pad: I'm actually rather proud of this one.

I"ve made various fixes to the auger, smelter and rocket workbench (all of which were inherited with EL, but I rather like them as low-tech things). The various tanks, and construction drone were donated.

Something of a side note: I do not use Unity or PartTools to create my models, ever: I export them directly from blender using my addon, so guess where another chunk of my time goes (and makes the recycling bins more of an achievement than they seem). Also, Diamond Grid is intended for EL (and serves as more proof that I can model).

So, yea, EL's art could do with some work, but priorities and time.

PS oh, and another chunk of my time is taken up arguing with people who think it should be EPL because they don't realize the difference in meaning between "extraplanetary launchpads" and "extra planetary launchpads" (cf extracurricular and extraterrestrial (Spielberg took a bit of artistic license with E.T., or just plain goofed)).

Edited July 9, 2020 by taniwha

[Not a Spy]

3 minutes ago, taniwha said:

\o/

There is no can't. "Can't" really means "don't know how", so learn how.

There is no difficult. "Difficult" really means "not enough practice", so practice more.

The above way of thinking got me from only just barely being able to count to 10 in Japanese when I was 32 to now living in Japan speaking the language fairly fluently and being able to read it... well enough to survive (and get a forklift license (training and tests all in Japanese), even, though I haven't used it much). I even worked in a Japanese factoring (operating a CNC lathe) for a few years.

To address your original point: yeah, EL could do with nicer textures and better models for some things. As to why EL's artwork has been mostly neglected:

When I took over EL, it was in a very raw state (no offense, and many many thanks to @skykooler for getting the basic idea working). The artwork was meh but kind of on-par for the time (it aged very quickly, though). However, there was no point in me working on EL's artwork then because there was no point in having beautiful models when the code fell over if you looked at it wrong. Spawning vessels was HORRIBLY unreliable. You could build only on the surface. You had to have all required resources on hand to do a build (ie, a 1000t ship needed 1000t of rocket parts instantly). You had to have a large and bulky launchpad on the site to do any building (getting one there was... interesting). Transferring resources to the build was a nightmare (try right-clicking EL's app button some time, especially on a space station with docked vessels). You could not extend a vessel with permanent attachments. Recycling was... iffy and error prone. EL

And by the time EL began to stabilize, other modders were using EL with their own parts that were much nicer than what I had time to create. That's not to say I can't model. I'm not great at it, but I'm more programmer than artist so guess where most of my "practice" times goes 

Improvements to EL over the years (off the top of my head):

• Build stability
• Playable recycling
• Orbital construction
• Targetable parts
• Subassembly support
• Timed builds (no more insane storage requirements)
• Deconstruction (consequence of timed builds)
• Survey sites
• Level construction on steep terrain (using launch clamps or Diamond Grid's no-launch clamps)
• Two experience systems (both stock (level) and via Kerbal Stats (timed experience))
• Recipes (not used much yet, but I believe @Angel-125 uses it a little)
• Attached construction
• Unmanned construction (tbh, this is how EL was in the beginning before timed construction, but...)
• Spawn adjustment and visible craft hulls.
• Documentation
• probably some things I've forgotten

To be honest, the list isn't that long, but some of those features took months to get working, all done during my Copious Free Time (tm).

Many of EL's parts were inherited, though some of those I've since deprecated so they're no longer visible, but ones I added:

• Recycling bins: meeeeh. My first KSP models.
• Orbital dock: very simple but I rather like it that way. When developing the orbital construction code, I slapped a senior docking port on that 1.25m round to square truss adapter and really liked the look of it, so I used that as the base of the design.
• Workshop: not my greatest achievement, but the workstations in the IVA aren't too bad.
• Survey stake: super simple but functional. Has an easter egg (hard to find these days, but I think you can equip one using KIS and thus should be findable)
• Mallet: not too bad for diffuse-only. Has another easter egg (and an in-joke with my mom (I told her about it and she laughed (and shuddered at the memory: she does NOT like cockroaches))). (equip with KIS to find).
• Micro-pad: it serves its purpose. It's meant to be an eye-sore as "hey, don't stand here" and it is a very temporary part.
• Control reference: another super-simple functional part.
• Landing pad: I'm actually rather proud of this one.

I"ve made various fixes to the auger, smelter and rocket workbench (all of which were inherited with EL, but I rather like them as low-tech things). The various tanks, and construction drone were donated.

Something of a side note: I do not use Unity or PartTools to create my models, ever: I export them directly from blender using my addon, so guess where another chunk of my time goes (and makes the recycling bins more of an achievement than they seem). Also, Diamond Grid is intended for EL (and serves as more proof that I can model).

So, yea, EL's art could do with some work, but priorities and time.

PS oh, and another chunk of my time is taken up arguing with people who think it should be EPL because they don't realize the difference in meaning between "extraplanetary launchpads" and "extra planetary launchpads" (cf extracurricular and extraterrestrial (Spielberg took a bit of artistic license with E.T., or just plain goofed)).

once i get better with the art, ill try to make better textures if you would be ok with that

[Corax]

barely being able to count to 10 in Japanese when I was 32 to now living in Japan

Hats off to you. I still haven't found the proper motivation to really learn vocabulary, or Kana, or Kanji, for the past thirty-plus years. Sad, I know. However, without context, that doesn't mean much--could be you're now 33, then that is impressive. Still, but a little less so, if you're 92 now ;)

[taniwha]

@Corax Heh, currently 49... I think (I lose track and have to think every time)

[Hohmannson]

On 7/9/2020 at 5:34 AM, taniwha said:

and serves as more proof that I can model

The DGT noclamp was made by your blender add-on, without Unity?