Too much focus on Kerbin SOI? Biomes and procedural craters

[czokletmuss]

I understand that Squad cares about new players and that's why Kerbin and its muns are the most polished part of the game. Hell, it even got asteroids now! But from my point of view as an older and probably more experienced player there is a perceivable lack of features or rather polishness in case of every other planet and muns. I'm talking mostly about biomes and procedural craters. It would be great to know whether there are any plans about expanding these features for, say, Duna and Ike which are probably the most popular destination after Kerbin for new players. If I remember correctly, Mun got procedural craters in September or so and Minmus got biomes when Science appeared in the game.

It's about time IMHO that other planets get more attention.

[thederper121]

I have to agree with you, I think the other planets/moons are a bit boring, I would love to see them improved.

Although right now I think Squad is going to finish career mode before starting to work on smaller things like the other planets and moons.

[EvilotionCR2]

It is 100% certain that there are plans for biomes on other planets, devs have said it.

[sporkafife]

A lot of people didn't really like the procedural craters, so I don't think we'll see them coming to all the airless bodies, at least not in the current iteration.

Biomes on all the planets are a given though. Think of the biomes in the Kerbin system as a sign of intent to add them to all planets, but they will probably introduce all the career mode features before fleshing them out fully.

[mach1]

i would love a new "saturn like" planet

[cantab]

I'd like to see the biome mechanics for career mode tweaked somewhat first. At the moment it feels like they encourage spamming the same mission over and over. Some sort of diminishing returns would seem appropriate, so players get rewarded more for visiting new places.

[Boris_T_Roach]

I suspect the next set of biomes will be on Duna and Ike.... they are coming... because it would be strange if only Kerbin and its moons had them

Bet they stick a biome down the bottom of a mohole just to be really annoying....

Boris

[regex]

I'd like to see the biome mechanics for career mode tweaked somewhat first. At the moment it feels like they encourage spamming the same mission over and over. Some sort of diminishing returns would seem appropriate, so players get rewarded more for visiting new places.

I imagine this will be much less of a problem when the other currencies are introduced and you can exchange one for another.

[maxpower]

I have to agree with you, I think the other planets/moons are a bit boring, I would love to see them improved.

Although right now I think Squad is going to finish career mode before starting to work on smaller things like the other planets and moons.

This is an issue for career mode though, and it really goes beyond just the visuals of the planets. The game needs to give the player more reasons to go to other destinations beyond Kerbin, and things to do when you get there. Going to other planets is actually really boring once you land...

Granted, since the devs made it pretty clear with their statements about resources being canned that their focus is almost exclusively on players who are new to (or suck at) the game, I don't hold out much hope for any sort of "end" game content or advanced features.

[tygoo7]

Have a look at Custom Biomes for now. Not sure if it works with 0.23.5. But yeah the devs said biomes are coming on all planets, they are just not a big priority right now.

[PDCWolf]

I think this proves 2 things:

•The include and forget behavior, where they make features and then totally forget about them (Spaceplane parts, visual effects, aerodynamic model, inconsistent colliders, lack of 3.75m parts, etc), which is obviously inconsistent with the "keep everything as polished and bugless as possible before releasing" update model they follow.

•Making the game for the lowest common denominator.

A lot of people didn't really like the procedural craters

Because it made the game harder, they just complained until mechjeb got updated, go figure.

It is 100% certain that there are plans for biomes on other planets, devs have said it.

It is 100% certain that resources are coming, they even showed them on stream. oh wait.

Edited April 13, 2014 by PDCWolf

[TinfoilChef]

This is an issue for career mode though, and it really goes beyond just the visuals of the planets. The game needs to give the player more reasons to go to other destinations beyond Kerbin, and things to do when you get there. Going to other planets is actually really boring once you land...

Granted, since the devs made it pretty clear with their statements about resources being canned that their focus is almost exclusively on players who are new to (or suck at) the game, I don't hold out much hope for any sort of "end" game content or advanced features.

Personally, I think that giving players reasons to go to other destinations beyond Kerbin and more things to do anywhere, is why Squad should give serious reconsideration to resources. Using satellite mapping as well as landing probes (manned or unmanned, some places are simply not well suited to manned only missions) to locate them. Then landing ships to mine, refine and transfer to orbiting fuel / resource stations for further distribution, Etc.

[Vanamonde]

Moved to development discussion.

Incidentally, I think it makes sense to deal with Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus first because *EVERY* flight and career starts there, so even advanced players spend more time there than anywhere else.

[czokletmuss]

Moved to development discussion.

Incidentally, I think it makes sense to deal with Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus first because *EVERY* flight and career starts there, so even advanced players spend more time there than anywhere else.

Well yeah, I'm not denying that - this is completely reasonable. I'm just pointing out that basically since 0.17 nothing has changed concerning other planets in comparison with Kerbin SOI. Yes, we got Eeloo, Pol was slightly changed and there were some "artistic passes" on Duna (and basic biomes obviously) but that's basically it. Compare it to Kerbin SOI and you'll get what I'm talking about. So far everything outside Kerbin SOI seems to be forgotten - and therefore majority of advanced players (those who play for >1 year) have nothing new to do out there.

I don't want to just moan and complain - I think it's a slowly growing problem which is worth talking about. Who knows, maybe the devs will think about it a little more; hey, that's the point of this subforum, right?

Personally, I think that giving players reasons to go to other destinations beyond Kerbin and more things to do anywhere, is why Squad should give serious reconsideration to resources. Using satellite mapping as well as landing probes (manned or unmanned, some places are simply not well suited to manned only missions) to locate them. Then landing ships to mine, refine and transfer to orbiting fuel / resource stations for further distribution, Etc.

I agree completely.

Edited April 13, 2014 by czokletmuss

[Nuke]

coders sometimes need the art department to make some graphics to test features they just coded. but since artists are rather busy people with a todo list a mile long, they will just do the bare minimum for the coders to do what they do. eventually the coders will shift from adding features to fixing bugs, and the art department would then be free to cross items off of their lists without the coders bugging them so often.

its pretty much just an artifact of how development works.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Nuke

[volkkeslate]

I actually have to admit that this is the reason why i don't leave kerbin SOI very often which has proven rather detrimental to me wanting to keep playing as much as i used to (you get sick of rebuilding all of your basic space stations each time you have to reset your save) so a little love to other planets and moons might make me interested in extraplantetary bases and the like

[TerLoki]

At the very least I want to have biomes for the other planets and muns in the next update or so. Like everyone else is saying, at the moment I tend to just send an unmanned mission or two followed by a manned flight and leave it at that because there's just not that much to do. Granted, I have yet to actually land a Kerbal on any body outside Kerbin's SoI, I had been planning a manned landing on Dres but was overcome by the urge to grab an asteroid and started a new save with ARM, but when I do get that landing in there's no reason for me to go back. No reason for the awesome network of space stations I envision to exist anywhere besides Kerbin, the Mun, and Minmus.

[czokletmuss]

Having in-game reason to do stuff is one thing (it's sandbox after all), having all the celestial bodies polished after long negliegence is something else entirely IMO.

[Trueborn]

Custom Biomes does work with 0.23.5, and comes with additional biomes for all stock bodies. You can also customize those biomes, or make your own from scratch. I pretty much made it because Squad was taking so much time putting more biomes in.

[That guy who builds stuff]

From what I hear squad has stated they are updating bodies in the order they are visited, so naturally Kerbin and it's moons would be first.

Duna and Ike will probobly be next.

[RedPine]

I disagree with the OP. Kerbin's SOI is the perfect place to test new features, since it's easy to get to. When the Contracts system comes out, don't be shocked when 90% of the contracts will be inside Kerbin's SOI.

Just like how biomes won't come to Duna and Ike until after testing those features on the Kerbin SOI (hopefully as part of .24), interesting contracts probably won't come to Duna and Ike until those features are tested on the Kerbin SOI as well.

That said, once contracts are fleshed out for all the planets and moons... things will get interesting. Thought Laythe was hard enough to land on? Now you have to make a rover for it. ]