[1.1] RemoteTech v1.6.10 [2016-04-12]

[*Aqua*]

The Com16 needs a continous power of 0.13 electricity/second or 7.8 electricity/minute. Do your solar panels generate enough power?

[RocketBlam]

Well, I'm not sure that's what it was, but it may have been. had two Communotrons on a satellite (it was actually two satellites before deploying one). I had several solar panels and from checking them, they seemed to be providing more than .26 energy flow when taken together. But it seems to work now.

My problem NOW is, I put a satellite constellation into orbit (just three ATM), and launched another vessel, and it never used the constellation, even though they were in LOS. Each satellite in the constellation has a deployed Communotron 16 on it, and electricity. The launch ship was able to contact ground stations (intermittently) and I could see that the constellation was also in contact with the stations, but the ship never used the constellation to communicate. If it was out of LOS from a ground station, but within LOS of another satellite, it still lost communication.

ETA: The relay constellation is at about 6 million meters. This may be out of range for the Comm16's (after checking the stats on your site) but they work at that altitude when controlling the relay satellites.

ETA2: I don't know how I could possibly do a Mun mission with this mod, unless I had IR installed. How would I keep the long-range dish antennas pointed at Kerbal while doing all the maneuvering needed to enter Mun Orbit, let alone to land on the Mun?

Edited February 16, 2015 by RocketBlam

[DavidHunter]

Silly question, but I have to ask...

Is it possible to queue different spacecraft orientations? At the moment, it seems impossible using the flight computer.

What I specifically want to do is to have flight computer point to surface prograde during re-entry of a lander, and then I want to queue at (time to periapse plus 2 minutes, via a delayed command) a command to kill rotation.

What I'm currently doing:

1. SRF GRD+ (no command delay).

2. Set command delay to roughly 15mins (to have enough time for parachute deployment).

3. Click KILL button to kill rotation.

At this point, instead of creating a new KILL command with a 15 minute delay, it just immediately deletes the SRF GRD+ command and applies the kill rotation command.

I have a separate idea, too, please:

At the moment, when you click the X next to a command to delete it, the deletion happens immediately. Is it possible for the deletion to occur based on the command delay time as well?

So, if I do...

1. SRF GRD+ (no command delay).

2. Set command delay to roughly 15mins (to have enough time for parachute deployment after re-entry).

3. Click the X button to delete the SRF GRD+ command.

Then this should delete the command 15 minutes later, so that the flight computer Mode = Off. (that way, "steering" is controlled by the parachutes and the lander doesn't topple itself over upon landing)

Are these two ideas possible, please?

Thanks in advance.

[JDP]

ETA: The relay constellation is at about 6 million meters. This may be out of range for the Comm16's (after checking the stats on your site) but they work at that altitude when controlling the relay satellites.

The main reason is trigonometrics i think. A vertical line downwards towards the ground station will often be shorter than any line off at an angle towards another orbiting satellite. So you'd find yourself in a situation where your satellites are within range of KSC when they are above it, but not in range of each other, that way they won't be able to relay any signals.

And another note. Are you absolutely sure about the altitude of 6 million metres? that would be halfway to the mun. (of course you could be playing in a rescaled world).

At 6 million metres you should be far out of range of KSC with the antennae you're using, and very very far out of range with the other satellites, providing you have a constellation of 3. Are your satellites perchance manned? or do they use probe cores added from other mods? that would give them local control, meaning that the crew or probe on board will be able to control the satellite directly, even when out of contact with a control station.

ETA2: I don't know how I could possibly do a Mun mission with this mod, unless I had IR installed. How would I keep the long-range dish antennas pointed at Kerbal while doing all the maneuvering needed to enter Mun Orbit, let alone to land on the Mun?

Dishes don't need to be physically pointed at their target. Requiring this would make the game pretty much unplayable. In stead you select the target for each dish from a context menu (right click the dish and you can set a target).

RT does have a pretty steep learning curve. I'd recommend you read the intro of the wiki from start to finish to save yourself from any headaches caused by common misconceptions. And pour yourself a hot cup of coffee for the read. It's an excellent analgesic for misconception related headaches and good for mind and spirit

Edited February 16, 2015 by JDP

[WuphonsReach]

ETA: The relay constellation is at about 6 million meters. This may be out of range for the Comm16's (after checking the stats on your site) but they work at that altitude when controlling the relay satellites.

You're probably missing a few basics.

- In the case of omni-directional antenna links, both vessels have to be within range of the other's antenna. With the advantage that they will auto-mesh with every other vessel in range.

- In the case of directional dish links, both vessels need to be pointed at each other (or pointed at something nearby so that both vessels are within each others cone). Auto-linking is limited to pairs of sats that have each other in their view cone.

- In the case of a sat with a directional pointed at a sat that only has an omni, it will work as long as both sats are within range of each other's antennas.

- Celestials (planets/moons) block line of sight, breaking transmission.

- If you have a setup where A/B/C all have directional dishes and A points at B and B points at C and C points at A - nothing will work. Instead, each of the three need (2) dishes pointed at the other two.

#1 - For Comm-16s - put up a box of (4) sats at 776km altitude around Kerbin, evenly spread around the equator, each with 45m00s orbits. The four sats will auto-mesh with their neighbors and one will always be within view of KSC. They should all have one DTS-M1 antenna, pointed at either the Mun or Minmus. Plan on having at least 750 battery capacity to drive the Comm-16 plus (1) DTS-M1 during the orbital dark period. You can drive these with (6) OX-STAT solar panels. Three at the top of the satellite, angled about 45-degrees and three at the bottom, also angled 30-45 degrees to catch solar from directly behind. For safety, you might want to put a final (3) OX-STAT panels around the middle.

These cost as little as 12-15k funds. Not too difficult at the start.

#2 - For your longer-range craft, put a satellite (or two) at KEO above Kerbin. Use a DTS-M1 to down-link to KSC and use your best long-range dish (KR-7 or KR-14 in early-mid game) set to "active vessel". Once that "KEO-Active" satellite is in place, all future vessels that will leave low Kerbin orbit should have a DTS-M1 or Comm 88-88 pointed at the "KEO-Active" satellite. These satellites should be fitted with a minimum of 1300 battery capacity (dark period is 1195 seconds). I usually give these a Comm-16 and place them 30 degrees apart at 2869km so that they cross-link.

Plan on spending 15-20k funds on these. You can get by with just one to start.

#3 - Around the Mun/Minmus, you'll want at least (2) satellites with DTS-M1 and Comm-16. Put them in 800-1000km orbits, about 120 degrees apart. The DTS-M1 should point at Kerbin. Four sats at 1250km or so works very well, but you can get by with as few as a single one. Shoot for a battery capacity of at least 2000.

Due to the increase in dV, you should plan on 18-22k funds for each of these.

[futrtrubl]

ETA: The relay constellation is at about 6 million meters. This may be out of range for the Comm16's (after checking the stats on your site) but they work at that altitude when controlling the relay satellites.

To me it sounds like you are using the root range model. With the high range of the ground station you might get a connection with the relays but the Comm-16 to Comm-16 range is much shorter. If you are using root mode are you sure you are able to control a relay when it is out of LoS from the ground?

[Drew Kerman]

At the moment, when you click the X next to a command to delete it, the deletion happens immediately. Is it possible for the deletion to occur based on the command delay time as well?

This was the behavior for the 0.25 version of RemoteTech, I've also asked for it to come back since I can't have the flight computer controlling the craft in any way when doing RCS thrust for maneuvers

[Stone Blue]

RocketBlam,

I had some similar issues when first using RT...

Maybe these links will help you, also (Only one of these is an actual mod that you need to install...The others are web-based):

This one helps you visually see and plan your RT constellations

http://ryohpops.github.io/kspRemoteTechPlanner/

This one aids in setting up the orbits, showing Orb. Vel., Period and Semi-(major/minor) axes...This is good, because (especially with MechJeb), getting EXACT Ap/Pe altitudes can be hit or miss...I gather that the orbital period (and inclination), is what you really want pretty accurate...

http://files.arklyffe.com/orbcalc.html

Fusebox plugin: This mod plugin helps plan electricity usage during assembly, then allows monitoring during flight...I've found it very useful in preventing permanently dead ships/sats due to not having enough generation/storage of elec.

Its a very simple, no-parts plugin, so doesnt tax resources...Some people may see it as cheating, due to the functionality NOT being built into stock game, but Hey, I'm sure every space agency in real life uses something similar in design and flight...Right?...

You just have to play with the filters during assembly, to get actual expectations during flight. Also, you have to separate the final craft from any disposable launch stages, or mother craft, during assembly, to get accurate numbers.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50077

And finally, you can use this link, and the darkness feature of Fusebox, to calculate usage/storage needs during darkness. Note that this is worst case darkeness, for equatorial (0° inc.) orbits... Higher inclination orbits may not need as much storage capacity, depending on lots of other factors...

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~bnichols8/projects/kspdarkness/main.shtml

Edited February 16, 2015 by Stone Blue

[Dunbaratu]

I've only just started using remotetech after a long hiatus. This may be a really basic question:

Is remotetech *supposed* to prevent antenna from being used to transmit science data? Early in a career game I put up a satellite with a goo container to get one of those "transmit any science from space around kerbin" contracts, figuring I could piggyback my first comm sats with that contract by sending a thing with a goo canister and some antennae. But once in space, even when I have a connection to the ground and am allowed to control the craft, the "transmit science" option is missing from the antenna part menus.

[Barklight]

I've only just started using remotetech after a long hiatus. This may be a really basic question:

Is remotetech *supposed* to prevent antenna from being used to transmit science data? Early in a career game I put up a satellite with a goo container to get one of those "transmit any science from space around kerbin" contracts, figuring I could piggyback my first comm sats with that contract by sending a thing with a goo canister and some antennae. But once in space, even when I have a connection to the ground and am allowed to control the craft, the "transmit science" option is missing from the antenna part menus.

Try extending the antenna before attempting to transmit it, depending on the antenna. For instance, with a comm.16, I have to extend/activate it before I try and transmit something like a crew report, or it tells me there are no communications devices on the vessel. With RT, transmitting science will not auto-activate the antenna to transmit your science data, and furthermore, it will only work if you have an active link to the space center (direct or otherwise).

[Dunbaratu]

I found a way around it, but it's weird that I have to do this:

Without remotetech installed:

There are two different user interface ways to tell it to transmit science:

1 - When looking at the popup for "review report" click the blue "transmit" button.

<or>

2 - Right click the antenna part, click "transmit" from there.

With Remotetech installed:

Technique #2 goes away. But technique #1 still works, I just discovered.

So it's not changing a thing about what is and isn't possible - just removing one of the two ways the user interface lets you get to it. That just seems weird to me.

[Nitrous Oxide]

With Remotetech installed:

Technique #2 goes away. But technique #1 still works, I just discovered.

So it's not changing a thing about what is and isn't possible - just removing one of the two ways the user interface lets you get to it. That just seems weird to me.

Because RemoteTech, like any other serious overhaul mod (RealChute for example), doesn't work within Squad's existing Antenna module (or Parachute module)... they scrap it via ModuleManager and replace it with their own modules.

If they wanted to keep that right-click menu button on every antenna, that means another function to check if the antenna is actually on every time the button is clicked because afaik it's hard to make conditional menu buttons (one that only shows up when the antenna is on). This way, it's only done when actually handling a potential science transmission and it only has to check whether or not the antenna is on when you actually want to send data. Keeping the "Transmit" button is just a lot more work than it's worth from a programming perspective.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Nitrous Oxide

[Dunbaratu]

Because RemoteTech, like any other serious overhaul mod (RealChute for example), doesn't work within Squad's existing Antenna module (or Parachute module)... they scrap it via ModuleManager and replace it with their own modules.

If they wanted to keep that right-click menu button on every antenna, that means another function to check if the antenna is actually on every time the button is clicked because afaik it's hard to make conditional menu buttons (one that only shows up when the antenna is on). This way, it's only done when actually handling a potential science transmission and it only has to check whether or not the antenna is on when you actually want to send data. Keeping the "Transmit" button is just a lot more work than it's worth from a programming perspective.

Well, you lose the ability to "transmit all" that way, having to go click on each and every science reading thing one at a time to see their report windows.

(Making conditional buttons is easy - you just toggle the guiEnabled field of the KSPEvent attribute. What's probably hard is fighting against SQUAD's code that's also trying to control the same button's visibility, such that squad's own code was just disabled entirely and replaced, but losing this useful piece of functionality in the process.)

So I have a question about the Communicatron16. The display panel claims it has an omnidirectional range of 2.5Million km. I'm seeing it cut out at shorter distances than that. Is there a mismatch between what its displaying and the number the game is actually using? I have 3 comsats in an orbit of 700,000m each, and it can't cut the chord across between them. The diameter of a 700,000m orbit should be 1,400,000m, so any chord distance has to be less than that, and yet the green line only appears when they're about 110 degrees around the arc from each other. When I try putting them at 120 degrees around the orbit from each other (forming a triangle), the communicatron16s don't quite make the connection. And I'm definitely not trying to pass signal through the planet either. It's clear by eyeballing it that there's plenty of clearance.

[TCFirebird]

The diameter of a 700,000m orbit should be 1,400,000m, so any chord distance has to be less than that

Kerbin has a diameter of 1,200 km so that diameter of a 700 km orbit would actually be 2,600 km. Even so, a 3 satellite network should be possible with Communotron 16s, but it has to be pretty exact to avoid line-of-sight and range problems. I recommend adding a 4th.

[Dunbaratu]

Kerbin has a diameter of 1,200 km so that diameter of a 700 km orbit would actually be 2,600 km. Even so, a 3 satellite network should be possible with Communotron 16s, but it has to be pretty exact to avoid line-of-sight and range problems. I recommend adding a 4th.

Good point. I forgot to add Kerbin's diameter. I still don't understand why it's claiming line of sight is cut off when clearly it's not. - does remotetech add atmosphere to the radius when checking? That might explain it. - then it would look like it's clear when it's actually passing through the atmosphere, which KSP doesn't draw.

I'd do it with 4 except I'm trying to satisfy the contract for it that comes with that other mod (name escapes me now) that adds remotetech contracts to career. It mandates 3 satellites, which is kind of restrictive and fiddly.

[RobertJPowell]

Good point. I forgot to add Kerbin's diameter. I still don't understand why it's claiming line of sight is cut off when clearly it's not. - does remotetech add atmosphere to the radius when checking? That might explain it. - then it would look like it's clear when it's actually passing through the atmosphere, which KSP doesn't draw.

I'd do it with 4 except I'm trying to satisfy the contract for it that comes with that other mod (name escapes me now) that adds remotetech contracts to career. It mandates 3 satellites, which is kind of restrictive and fiddly.

Maybe an edit to add a 4th. should just simply require copying the 3rd satellite of the contract and maybe altering a few other parameters. I always thought 4 although more costly was a better idea. (perhaps slightly increase the advance and the reward)

[Sampa]

WELL...ok, I think I'll try this again...I admit, it WAS kind of fun using this the first time...and I think with ground stations, it should be a LITTLE easier to get my com sats up

[nightingale]

Maybe an edit to add a 4th. should just simply require copying the 3rd satellite of the contract and maybe altering a few other parameters. I always thought 4 although more costly was a better idea. (perhaps slightly increase the advance and the reward)

I'm open to suggestions for doing it one way or another. Every contract for celestial body coverage other than the Kerbin one just says "get coverage of x", and doesn't tell the player how to get it. For the Kerbin one I wanted it to be somewhat tutotial-like, so I went with what I thought was the most basic/common network. If people think 4 makes more sense, I could change it to for.

Or maybe I can leave it as 3 but make the "set it up this way" part optional and make the real contract requirement to just "get coverage" like the other ones....

[TCFirebird]

For the Kerbin one I wanted it to be somewhat tutotial-like, so I went with what I thought was the most basic/common network. If people think 4 makes more sense, I could change it to for.

The official tutorial ( http://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/tutorials/c16network/ ) recommends four satellites.

[nightingale]

The official tutorial ( http://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/tutorials/c16network/ ) recommends four satellites.

Last time I looked at it, it was three. Still, my fault for not checking it more recently than 8 months ago.

Okay, I'll most likely change it to 4, and make sure it can be completed with C16s.

[Dunbaratu]

Last time I looked at it, it was three. Still, my fault for not checking it more recently than 8 months ago.

Okay, I'll most likely change it to 4, and make sure it can be completed with C16s.

I just made the edit to my config and I'll be starting a new career with it. I'll let you know how it goes, and if it works, I'll post it over in the remote tech contracts thread.

Basically, here's what I did: Instead of EVERY satellite having to have a direct connection to every other one (which is impossible if you use 4 as there will be ones on opposite sides of the planet), I did this: first satellite needs no contact with other satellites. Second needs contact with first. Third needs contact with second. Fourth needs contact with both third and first. Thus you can put them up one at a time, each placed 90 degrees ahead of the previous one.

I also slightly increased the money payout because you need to pay for 4 satellites instead of 3.

[nightingale]

I just made the edit to my config and I'll be starting a new career with it. I'll let you know how it goes, and if it works, I'll post it over in the remote tech contracts thread.

Basically, here's what I did: Instead of EVERY satellite having to have a direct connection to every other one (which is impossible if you use 4 as there will be ones on opposite sides of the planet), I did this: first satellite needs no contact with other satellites. Second needs contact with first. Third needs contact with second. Fourth needs contact with both third and first. Thus you can put them up one at a time, each placed 90 degrees ahead of the previous one.

Great, that sounds perfect. If you can do a GitHub pull request, that would be even better - but if not throwing it up on the contract pack's thread will still save me a lot of effort.

[TCFirebird]

Are attitude and throttle adjustments not subject to signal delay? Any part interaction like science reports and staging have a delay, but not reaction wheels and throttle. That was a happy surprise for me, because there is no way I was going to be able to land on Ike using just the flight computer.

[erendrake]

Are attitude and throttle adjustments not subject to signal delay? Any part interaction like science reports and staging have a delay, but not reaction wheels and throttle. That was a happy surprise for me, because there is no way I was going to be able to land on Ike using just the flight computer.

They should all have a delay, and landing with no atmo and signal delay is going to take some kind of autopilot that is integrated with remotetech. Right now the only one I know of is kOS.

[Dunbaratu]

Okay so what am I missing here:

I have two satellites, both equipped with lots of communicatron 16s.

They are well within 2.5million meters of each other (they are in orbits of less than 700000 each, plus Kerbin's 600,000m radius means each is 1.3million m above the planetary center. They are positioned 90 degrees apart around the circle, so that should be no more than sqrt(1.3^2+1.3^2) ~= 1.838million meters. The planet is not in the way. Both are well powered. Both have their communicatrons activated. The map view still draws no line between them. I don't get why.

Is there a rule I'm missing somewhere?

Edited February 20, 2015 by Steven Mading
decimal place off in my reporting of the numbers