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Birds in Helicpoter Engine

Pawelk198604

By Pawelk198604
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Pawelk198604

Pawelk198604

Posted
Posted

My mother read in our Polish tabloid "Fakt" that the helicopter pilot of our state "Polish Medical Air Rescue" had to fly the injured motorcyclist road accident, but the pilot aborted takeoff , after the bird flew into the engine, nothing happened helicopter, but pilot aborted takeoff.

Motorcyclist rode so the hospital by ordinary ambulance .

I have just read about it somewhere website at "Fact" in the comments people wrote that the such a coward as the pilot of the helicopter, had to take his pilot license that this man could be killed by his actions because he did not get to in time to the hospital. I wanted to write that the he is a moron, the pilot had to abort takeoff because that is the ULC (UrzÄ…d Lotnictwa Cywilnego- (Polish)Civilian Aviation Authority ) it's like American FAA, The procedure bounding pilot that he must abort take off if the bird flew into engine if he will not do so the ULC have right to revoke his licence, for breaking flight procedures.

How it looks in the other countries?

Regards

Pawelk198604

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StuntMax

StuntMax

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How it looks in the other countries?

(I don't get why this is filed in the science forum and not in the lounge.... )

Well, I think that the readers comments section of an online tabloid gathers the worst scum of the untitled and unqualified people.

Typical tabloid commenter has a bucketload of free time, doesn't have a clue on how something works, but he still have a very precise and definite (and usually wrong) opinion about everything, esp. easy and uncomplicated topics as oncological medicine, pharmacology, law, macroeconomics, flight, nuclear reactors, scientific investigation... and he NEVER refrain from openly and loudly display his incompetence.

My point is... comments sections are NEVER to be taken seriously. NEVER. I just read them for the lolz.

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Pawelk198604

Pawelk198604

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As a child, I dreamed that I would be a pilot "Polish Medical Air Rescue"

There was no game of Polish air ambulances, but it was about American rescuers, better than nothing :D

"Search and Rescue series"

I remember when i play helicopters in MS Flight Simulator, i almost always crash, i can do trans-atlantic flight in Boeing 777 from Worclaw(Poland) to New York city (USA) (with made me very pride as 16 years old) but always crashed in helicopter i learned how to fly eventually, but it last long. My friend who is not interested at all in aviation, told my that is because, from what he knew rotaplane and helicopters are among most challenging to learn aircraft, and he was right, even now i hate to be helicopter pilot in BF3 :D

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Camacha

Camacha

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Please, stop spamming forum. Write a blog if you want - sure - but we don't need to know about every day of your life.

The topics were always useful, looking at the replies. With replies like this the forums are going downhill.

If you have problems, inform a moderator please.

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Dkmdlb

Dkmdlb

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The topics were always useful

Let's take a look at the rules

Welcome to the Labs, A place to discuss all things pertaining to science and general geekdom.

In what way does

How it looks in other countries
pertain to science and general geekdom?
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Rich

Rich

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Posted
Let's take a look at the rules

In what way does pertain to science and general geekdom?

Please, stop spamming forum. Write a blog if you want - sure - but we don't need to know about every day of your life.
Moderators, please? This is just spamming

I do not consider this thread to be spam because discussing flight operating procedures is pretty "geeky". So please ladies and gentlemen stop derailing the thread and targeting the OP.

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Camacha

Camacha

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Posted (edited)

It is only sensible to land an aircraft as soon as possible after a serious incident like a bird strike. It makes no sense to risk several lives to *maybe* rescue one.

Edited by Vanamonde
Removed quotation of deleted post.
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Vanamonde

Vanamonde

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Folks, if you disagree with a moderation action, send the moderator in question a PM about it. Do not argue the point in the thread, where it derails discussions, and is a violation of forum rule 3.4. Two posts have alread been removed from this thread over this matter, so let's just move on. No one is forcing you to click on threads in which you have no interest.

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Mazon Del

Mazon Del

Posted
Posted (edited)

It is my understanding from OPs description that the pilot was about to take off when the bird entered the engine. Now, depending on the craft this is either a Very Bad thing, or simply a Very Inconvenient thing. For sure, that particular engine is toast until it can be cleaned out. But some aircraft have two engines to provide redundancy. For generic commercial craft (tourist helicopter) this is usually an unnecessary expense if a cheaper single engine version is available. Considering this sounds like a Search and Rescue craft, these tend to be (but are not always) military castoffs due do the sometimes extreme conditions the S&R team may operate under, which would likely mean a double engine helicopter. If the craft is a single engine one, then the pilot was totally in the right as it is likely he would be unable to take off safetly and maintain stable flight.

Now assuming the craft is a double-engine type then when something like this happens it is up to pilot discression. What makes good procedure is if the pilot recieves some level of information about the patient, thus allowing the pilot to make an informed decision. Without an inspection of the engine compartment, it is possible that second engine is also compromised, presumably the pilots instruments would feed him enough data to show that engine 1 is down, engine 2 is possibly ok. At this point the pilot has to make a decision. He hasn't taken off yet, so he isn't committed to flight. If he knows the patient has a non-life threatening injury (example: a broken arm), then it is just safest for the patient, the pilot, and the medical team for the pilot to shut the aircraft down and wait for backup. As I said, without an inspection of the second engine, the pilot has no way of knowing for sure that it isn't on the verge of breaking down, so taking off in this situation is risking the lives of everybody on board. For a non-life threatening injury, this would be inexcusable. Now if the patient in question had suffered a life threatening injury AND the medics stated he had a better than low chance of survival, then the risk is warranted given the patient's situation. If the patient is highly likely to die regardless of making it to the hospital quickly or not, then it is up to the pilot to risk the lives of himself and the medical team (the patient no longer enters because he can be assumed to be dead on arrival at this point by the pilot).

If the bird entered the engine midflight, then depending on the readouts of the console and how close they were to the hospital, the pilot would likely decide to continue flight, but this was because he already has proof that the second engine appears to be holding up to the strain well enough to do the job. While the helicopter was on the ground, the engine had not yet been asked to go to full power, and since it could have been damaged, and attempting to fly on a damaged engine that fails can result in a drop of at least 10-15+ feet and possibly a rollover of the helicopter, likely severely wounding or killing everyone on board.

Even beside all of this, the pilot of an aircraft is something like a captain at sea, god emperor of his land. If he believes something is a danger to himself and his passengers he is legally allowed to do a great deal of things, including refusing to fly a mission that could save someone's life.

So in the end, the pilot was fully in the right to refuse to fly both legally and situationally.

Edited by Mazon Del
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sgt_flyer

sgt_flyer

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Posted (edited)

well, a single bird can cause major damage to a jet engine's compressor blades - even if the blades don't break on the spot, it could very well break inflight - one of these blades going through the jet engine while inflight could kill the engine (especially as most helicopters jet engines are much smaller than airliners turbofans - and on a turbofan, the jet engine part is much smaller than the fan itself - so it reduces the risks of a bird going through the main compressor and combustion chamber)

jet engines are tested against bird ingestions (up to a certain size of bird), but taking off after a bird ingestion without checking the engine for damage and cleaning it would be completely stupid. (an helicopter can autorotate to the ground in case of engine failure, but that remains a risky manoeuver - especially if the aircraft has to fly over urban zones - it's best to avoid the risk :P).

Edited by sgt_flyer
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Camacha

Camacha

Posted
Posted
Even beside all of this, the pilot of an aircraft is something like a captain at sea, god emperor of his land. If he believes something is a danger to himself and his passengers he is legally allowed to do a great deal of things, including refusing to fly a mission that could save someone's life.

The power a captain on a aircraft with closed doors wields is surprisingly large indeed. Probably rightly so, as someone needs to have authority on a craft that could be considered an autonomous entity at that point.

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Rus-Evo

Rus-Evo

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The power a captain on a aircraft with closed doors wields is surprisingly large indeed. Probably rightly so, as someone needs to have authority on a craft that could be considered an autonomous entity at that point.

Yeah like a Captain on a ship.....only with less time for decision making!

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