[0.24.2] Interstellar Lite - Tweakscale Integration [v0.12.3][Sept 7]

[AetherGoddess]

I first thought that way about generators when I first started playing. I am not so confident now. I'm not ruling it out, but I am not sure that that is something I want to allow.

I did remove the requirement for confinement power for fusion, which I always found annoying.

it took me a little while to figure out the various implications of generator/reactor issues, but i never found any of it annoying. in fact, i'm a little bit annoyed to learn that the multiple generator modes were disabled in lite, as i always liked the idea of direct conversion for power and the thermal for thrust.

as for confinement power, this makes sense in light of current fusion research; the NIF requires something like 2 MJ of laser input, and is still a long way from breaking even. given the generator/reactor split, it makes sense that the part should be focused on it's primary goal (i.e. electricity and D/T/H3 to excess thermal + charged baryons) so as to not sacrifice the weight of a "built-in" generator for self-sustaining operation. now the annoying thing was that i couldn't start fusion on the launchpad using kerbin power. maybe mod the launch clamps to provide MJ also?

while i'm not one of the realism for realism's sake crowd, this does raise the question of how star trek you want KSPi (and by extension, Interstellar light) to be? one end of the spectrum is a single part that can produce every type energy from whatever's lying around without side effects and the deletion of waste heat, and the other end is further into the realism then where Fractal's KSPi was, i.e. separate parts for each type of conversion, separate losses for each step, strong overhead like radiation poisoning and fusion confinement, and firm restrictions on what was allowed to pipe what type of power to what. I personally think there is a happy middle ground where we can build starships like legos that could, at least conceivably, actually work.

[Sigma88]

There could be an issue with the way the module is searching through panels. I'll look into it.

You "could" edit the file, but the changes would be significant. You'd spend more time fixing the save than playing I believe.

well, I'm currently spending more time fixing than playing so there would be no change there

jokes aside, If you find out what could be that messes up the panels please send me a PM

thank you

[Cychotha]

This "should" work, but as I say in the OP and video, you will need to make sure to delete the kspi related entries from tweakscale's scaleexponents file, which was the cause of your issue.

Yeah, I think that was taken care of by allowing overwrites when installing interstellar lite, since I am using the ScaleExponents.cfg file from interstellar lite instead of tweakscale. After doing a line by line comparison of the two cfg files, the only differences I noticed between the two files are the changes you mention in the OP. Thanks again for all your hard work.

[WaveFunctionP]

Well it is just a suggestion, and currently it is quite easy to make, without breaking any of the existing stuff, it just checks if there was no Generator attached if itself is already containing a reactor.

More like an enhancement for future items and or welded parts.

It is not that I wanted to reduce everything down to one single part.

And you have the last word on it, but for me it was just something that was necessary at that moment with 8 antimatter reactors and 16 generators welded into one part.

There's only one mode of generators and only one output of reactors. You only need one generator for each reactor.

[Alewx]

Wait let me show you what I did and why I made the codechange in Interstellar.

That is why I have 16 generators on 8 reactors. and in private, it just Looks cooler

This is all in one single part, as I want to use it as a reactor core for a really big ship.

[WaveFunctionP]

it took me a little while to figure out the various implications of generator/reactor issues, but i never found any of it annoying. in fact, i'm a little bit annoyed to learn that the multiple generator modes were disabled in lite, as i always liked the idea of direct conversion for power and the thermal for thrust.

as for confinement power, this makes sense in light of current fusion research; the NIF requires something like 2 MJ of laser input, and is still a long way from breaking even. given the generator/reactor split, it makes sense that the part should be focused on it's primary goal (i.e. electricity and D/T/H3 to excess thermal + charged baryons) so as to not sacrifice the weight of a "built-in" generator for self-sustaining operation. now the annoying thing was that i couldn't start fusion on the launchpad using kerbin power. maybe mod the launch clamps to provide MJ also?

while i'm not one of the realism for realism's sake crowd, this does raise the question of how star trek you want KSPi (and by extension, Interstellar light) to be? one end of the spectrum is a single part that can produce every type energy from whatever's lying around without side effects and the deletion of waste heat, and the other end is further into the realism then where Fractal's KSPi was, i.e. separate parts for each type of conversion, separate losses for each step, strong overhead like radiation poisoning and fusion confinement, and firm restrictions on what was allowed to pipe what type of power to what. I personally think there is a happy middle ground where we can build starships like legos that could, at least conceivably, actually work.

Having something to learn is fun, it is the basis of fun actually. Relaunching your rocket because you forgot to switch the mode on the generator would not be high on the list of things I found fun. Trying to gether he3 by timewarping a farm is not something that I would call fun. Having a reactor capable of producing enormous amounts of power be a paperweight because the game or mod had a hiccup and drained all the power from the vessel during timewarp was not fun. The list goes on an on.

I removed extraneous bits to focus the core experience at the heart of interstellar, unconventional and theoretical propulsion technologies inspired by potentially feasible technologies. The numbers in vanilla kspi were just as arbitrary as the numbers in stock kspi. Marketing sold players on the realism angle. Yes, a lot of it based on wikipedia articles, and a lot of extraneous information is calculated within the mod. But after you dig through it a while you begin to see mostly magic numbers, not physical constants. There is no need to use the fine structure constant to calculate the output of a fictional reactor.

Just like in Star Trek, my transporter will break when it is convenient, the warp drive will go as slow or fast as the mission (episode) requires, and the sensors will be down when it makes for good entertainment. It's a game. All the numbers are made up. It's science fiction, which will be more or less plausible depending on the needs of the experience.

[WaveFunctionP]

Wait let me show you what I did and why I made the codechange in Interstellar.

http://i.imgur.com/wRat54p.png

That is why I have 16 generators on 8 reactors. and in private, it just Looks cooler

This is all in one single part, as I want to use it as a reactor core for a really big ship.

^^ this man gets it!

My concern is not about your change so much for the parts in kspilite. Since I make the part files after all. My concern is what other systems it will affect, and/or what removing the restriction will cause players to do.

[Alewx]

^^ this man gets it!

My concern is not about your change so much for the parts in kspilite. Since I make the part files after all. My concern is what other systems it will affect, and/or what removing the restriction will cause players to do.

Well that is what testing is for. We can test the changes I commited and see if it might have any sideeffects in regular playing. you could create a development Version just for testing purpose, and gather reactions from other Players.

If there are sideeffects bugs or any Kind of Problem that is caused by it, it can simply be reversed or changed.

The regular player shouldn't even notice the changes I made as they should use the mod like before but ppl that do more crazy stuff with the game, can benefit from it.

Well this is just the way I think game development should go, and a little bit we work that way in the company where I'm employeed. But really it is completly up to you, and that is why it is a pull request not a push request;)

[Drew Kerman]

again, what's up with the Gamma Ray Spectrometer part? Is that defunct in this version?

[WaveFunctionP]

again, what's up with the Gamma Ray Spectrometer part? Is that defunct in this version?

I have no idea what you mean.

[rabidninjawombat]

Thanks for all your hard work on keeping this up WaveFunction!

[Drew Kerman]

I have no idea what you mean.

Maybe I screwed up my install. The model is the same as the Gas Chromatograph thingy, I can't scale it, and no actions for it show up in the VAB

[undercoveryankee]

again, what's up with the Gamma Ray Spectrometer part? Is that defunct in this version?

The GRS changed its name and switched from the "blue sphere" mesh to the same model as the other spectrometers. Its functionality is ORS-based, so it is sensitive to whether you have only the correct ORS and whether you have Uranium, Thorium, and Alumina maps present. Thorium is intentionally gone in this version, but the GRS works for me to detect Uranium and Alumina.

It doesn't have TweakScale because it doesn't have any functionality that would change with size. It doesn't have any tweakables because it doesn't have any functions that need tweakables. In flight, it shows you the Uranium/Thorium (if present)/Alumina abundances directly below you and allows you to toggle hot spots. Nothing that it had in 0.11 is missing.

Edited September 1, 2014 by undercoveryankee

[Drew Kerman]

Ok. The old part had something with SCANsat, so the fact that was missing and I had never used it before led me to wonder if it was one of the parts that had been culled in this version.

[CleverLikeMe]

Wait let me show you what I did and why I made the codechange in Interstellar.

http://i.imgur.com/wRat54p.png

That is why I have 16 generators on 8 reactors. and in private, it just Looks cooler

This is all in one single part, as I want to use it as a reactor core for a really big ship.

Wait wait wait... there's a way to weld parts together? Can someone point me to that mod/plugin?

[INSULINt]

Wait wait wait... there's a way to weld parts together? Can someone point me to that mod/plugin?

Uz..... Something's welding mod. I think there's a link in the directory thread. Does that mod still work?

[undercoveryankee]

Ok. The old part had something with SCANsat, so the fact that was missing and I had never used it before led me to wonder if it was one of the parts that had been culled in this version.

Versions of SCANsat that support ORS mapping include a ModuleManager config that makes the GRS a SCANsat sensor for the resources that it detects. That config uses the 0.11 name for the GRS part, so it will have to be updated to add SCANsat support to the 0.12 part.

[FluffySilverUnicorn]

I saw a post earlier on here about a MM patch to bring back the values closer to Fractal's. Any news on that?

[AetherGoddess]

I saw a post earlier on here about a MM patch to bring back the values closer to Fractal's. Any news on that?

[...]I removed extraneous bits to focus the core experience at the heart of interstellar, unconventional and theoretical propulsion technologies inspired by potentially feasible technologies. [...] Just like in Star Trek, my transporter will break when it is convenient, the warp drive will go as slow or fast as the mission (episode) requires, and the sensors will be down when it makes for good entertainment. It's a game. All the numbers are made up. It's science fiction, which will be more or less plausible depending on the needs of the experience.

Crosslinking for fun an prophet.

Wave has a vision, and personally i think it's a good one. i don't think there's going to be a optional patch for Fractal's vision. This is probably a good thing. if and when Fractal get's back, there will be two people intimately familiar with this mod, and it's internal complications, each with a slightly different vision. we'll either get one big KSPi with all the coolness turned up to 11, or we'll get two versions that share coolness making utilities between them.

B9 is back, and bigger then ever, KospY returned for KAS, and KSPi has a new captain. This is a good time to be a little green astronaut.

Edited September 2, 2014 by AetherGoddess
read before you post, girl.

[jonrd463]

So... could someone please explain the voodoo involved in getting B9 Sabres to work in Interstellar? I'm banging my head against my desk here. 2 Sabres, one on either side of my SSTO, SR-71 style. I have the intake, precooler, and engine. Anything faster than Mach 2 @ <15K meters and it overheats. Alrighty then, add more pre-coolers! I've taken it up to 3 pre-coolers inline per engine. Still happens. What bothers me is that this just doesn't make sense. Intake air goes into pre-cooler, pre-cooler should do its job. It doesn't. Prior to installing Interstellar, my space planes worked. Now I've got a hangar full of exploding ballistic missiles with cockpits.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work that went into this, both FractalUK's and Wave's. It's just that a concept that should be so simple to figure out is not working as expected. Any hints, ideas, advice, and something akin to a complete moron's guide to Interstellar-adjusted Sabres would be awesome, because I'm stumped.

[Gecko99]

So... could someone please explain the voodoo involved in getting B9 Sabres to work in Interstellar? I'm banging my head against my desk here. 2 Sabres, one on either side of my SSTO, SR-71 style. I have the intake, precooler, and engine. Anything faster than Mach 2 @ <15K meters and it overheats. Alrighty then, add more pre-coolers! I've taken it up to 3 pre-coolers inline per engine. Still happens. What bothers me is that this just doesn't make sense. Intake air goes into pre-cooler, pre-cooler should do its job. It doesn't. Prior to installing Interstellar, my space planes worked. Now I've got a hangar full of exploding ballistic missiles with cockpits.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work that went into this, both FractalUK's and Wave's. It's just that a concept that should be so simple to figure out is not working as expected. Any hints, ideas, advice, and something akin to a complete moron's guide to Interstellar-adjusted Sabres would be awesome, because I'm stumped.

Hey Bud

Just a thought, remove and reinstall the effected mods, this usually works for most of the hassles im having... also, are you using FAR? Doing so may cause some other issues...

Just a thought, sorry if you have already tried that.

Regards

The Gecko

[Gecko99]

Wait let me show you what I did and why I made the codechange in Interstellar.

http://i.imgur.com/wRat54p.png

That is why I have 16 generators on 8 reactors. and in private, it just Looks cooler

This is all in one single part, as I want to use it as a reactor core for a really big ship.

DUUUUDE!!! that is so cool!

if it cuts down on part count - and by extension lag - I SO want a piece of that action!

When i dock two or more of my smaller ships to an already large space station i get lag of death with the part count exceeding 500... so if this is a way to effectively remove that, MAN am I Happy!:wink:

[Alewx]

DUUUUDE!!! that is so cool!

if it cuts down on part count - and by extension lag - I SO want a piece of that action!

When i dock two or more of my smaller ships to an already large space station i get lag of death with the part count exceeding 500... so if this is a way to effectively remove that, MAN am I Happy!:wink:

Well lag is still common even with this single part beast but it is a lot better. As you get close to it in the 2,5km range or the physic simulation than you will get one massive lag like the system is frozen. After that you get smoother fps than with the 160 parts it would be without welding.

[WaveFunctionP]

The GRS changed its name and switched from the "blue sphere" mesh to the same model as the other spectrometers. Its functionality is ORS-based, so it is sensitive to whether you have only the correct ORS and whether you have Uranium, Thorium, and Alumina maps present. Thorium is intentionally gone in this version, but the GRS works for me to detect Uranium and Alumina.

It doesn't have TweakScale because it doesn't have any functionality that would change with size. It doesn't have any tweakables because it doesn't have any functions that need tweakables. In flight, it shows you the Uranium/Thorium (if present)/Alumina abundances directly below you and allows you to toggle hot spots. Nothing that it had in 0.11 is missing.

I didn't intentionally change the art on the gsr. Probably a copy paste error on my part.

[WaveFunctionP]

So... could someone please explain the voodoo involved in getting B9 Sabres to work in Interstellar? I'm banging my head against my desk here. 2 Sabres, one on either side of my SSTO, SR-71 style. I have the intake, precooler, and engine. Anything faster than Mach 2 @ <15K meters and it overheats. Alrighty then, add more pre-coolers! I've taken it up to 3 pre-coolers inline per engine. Still happens. What bothers me is that this just doesn't make sense. Intake air goes into pre-cooler, pre-cooler should do its job. It doesn't. Prior to installing Interstellar, my space planes worked. Now I've got a hangar full of exploding ballistic missiles with cockpits.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work that went into this, both FractalUK's and Wave's. It's just that a concept that should be so simple to figure out is not working as expected. Any hints, ideas, advice, and something akin to a complete moron's guide to Interstellar-adjusted Sabres would be awesome, because I'm stumped.

I can't think of a reason why sabres would be specially affected. The heating just counts the number of cooled and non-cooled intakes and spits out a multiplier for heating. I will look into it though.