Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

[Wisq]

16 minutes ago, wb99999999 said:

It seems to me that your heat load problem sounds a lot like when I played RSS without RO (and thus default thermal settings), but if you got the entire RO bundle this is probably not the case then. Just a reminder that the standard MK1 capsule has a LEO-rated heat shield built-in with RO, and both MK1 and MK2 capsules should survive a low orbit reentry WITH EASE especially if you do a ballistic (non-lifting) reentry: they probably would survive a negative perigee if you have them plunges into the atmosphere steeply and decelerate rapidly. So what I am saying is no, there's definitely something wrong going on with your install. CKAN is unlikely to have a lot to do with it though...

Well that's interesting!  I can indeed land a Mk1 pod with an Mk16 parachute in a stock install with just RP-0 installed, perigee 50km, and only use 50/200 ablator.  Furthermore, it's a lot faster to load and a lot more responsive, and also, the atmosphere effects (red glow etc.) don't start until much later — well below 70km, where my parachute was catching fire and exploding last time.

There's definitely something messed up in my old install.  Going to start fresh and install my old mod list slowly to figure out what's going on.  Thanks.

[Wisq]

Okay, I tracked it down!  It's the weirdest thing ever, and it's 100% my fault, sorry.

Basically: Since I don't want Steam doing anything stupid re: auto-updating my Kerbal — and because I want to have a fresh Kerbal to copy for mod testing — I don't actually run it out of the SteamApps directory.  Instead, I copy it to a different directory — e.g. c:\games\ksp\1.2.2 — and run it there.

BUT, I do like having Steam say that I'm playing it, and tracking my hours, and the in-game overlay, and etc etc.  So I set the Steam app launch options to

"c:\games\ksp\1.2.2\KSP_x64.exe" %command%

which makes it run that instead.  And everything seemed fine!  However, it's clearly NOT fine, because if I run Kerbal via Steam, I get all these bugs, but if I run it via CKAN, I don't get the bugs.  Oops.

My hypothesis was that Steam was running the correct EXE file, but not changing the working directory before it ran it.  (I'm frankly surprised this actually worked!)  Presumably, most mods would read their data files based on the location of the EXE — probably using API functions provided by KSP? — but some would try to read and write directly to the working directory, and were thus using stock data (or no data) instead of correct data.

The quick and dirty solution to test this (without moving anything and messing with the experiment) was to create a KSP..BAT file that would CD to the correct directory and run KSP, and see what happens when Steam runs that instead.  Lo and behold, I was able to do reentry once I set that up!

Anyway, sorry for the confusion here.  I'm going to rebuild my install because it's probably been pretty pooched by this abuse on my part, but I should hopefully be able to keep using my campaign and .craft files. I'll have to go see if my cryogenic tanks issue is fixed too.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Wisq

[Bornholio]

21 hours ago, Wisq said:

So I'm having some serious heat issues:

1: If I have any cryogenic fuels on board, heat goes nuts as soon as I cross from 100x to 1000x time warp.  I understand that this is when Kerbal goes from "simulation mode" to "analytical mode" as far as heat is concerned, so I'm assuming this is the cause.  Now, I fully understand that there's boil-off of cryogenic fuels, but the tanks aren't actually the problem — what happens is, other components on my ship start overheating and exploding, almost always starting with my communication antennae (I think because they have the lowest heat tolerance?).

2: I can't survive reentry to save my life.  I've tried what ought to be the absolute gentlest reentry possible — starting from a circular orbit just above the atmosphere (140.1km) and then dropping my perigee to some reasonable number (generally in the 90km to 110km range).  Every time, what happens is, my parachute (Mk16) overheats and explodes first, and then my capsule next.  If I put the lunar-rated 2m heat shield on it, then the capsule survives okay, but the parachute still burns up, so it's game over for the capsule anyway.

Given that these bugs both involve heat (albeit different issues in different modes), I'm wondering if I've got some mess-up in that area?

I've got RP-0 and all dependencies and recommendations installed, except TestFlight.  I've also got a few extra mods on top of that, but none of them should be touching heat.  If those are the suspected cause, I can try a fresh install plus RP-0, but I'm hoping this is a known issue and/or I'm just doing something wrong.

There is a realfuels fix for exploding fuel tanks in dev.  https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/commit/f4156841a586b84601503883116d51ed900d0e2f  You may want to run with cheat (ignore max temp) on while changing craft, at least to ones that have cryofuels

Also a fix for excessive thermal transfer from skin in the RO master. NK made a commit to fix it https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/commit/dc22044a2071de0a85fb4084fcdfd216d16c612c 

if you run using the latest master this is included. (not in CKAN release yet)

Edited June 25, 2017 by Bornholio

[Wisq]

On 25/06/2017 at 0:00 PM, Bornholio said:

There is a realfuels fix for exploding fuel tanks in dev.  https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/commit/f4156841a586b84601503883116d51ed900d0e2f  You may want to run with cheat (ignore max temp) on while changing craft, at least to ones that have cryofuels

Also a fix for excessive thermal transfer from skin in the RO master. NK made a commit to fix it https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/commit/dc22044a2071de0a85fb4084fcdfd216d16c612c 

if you run using the latest master this is included. (not in CKAN release yet)

I'm pretty sure the tank heat issue was also just a symptom of my botched way of running Kerbal in Steam.

I'll be back here if that's not the case — but so far, all my tests seem to indicate everything is fine now, thanks.

[Bornholio]

30 minutes ago, Wisq said:

I'm pretty sure the tank heat issue was also just a symptom of my botched way of running Kerbal in Steam.

I'll be back here if that's not the case — but so far, all my tests seem to indicate everything is fine now, thanks.

Nah, we have duplicated the issue with cryofuels several times, but thats not to say you didn't have some effect from your case.

Glad to hear your solution gave you relief.  Tweaking the thermal system is one of the more complex parts of modding for realism in general.

[frisch]

Has anyone had success with space planes in RO?  I can't find a reasonable design that the FAR stability analysis says is stable on all axes at hypersonic speeds.  The worst problem is yaw stability (Ybeta).    I'm using mark2 parts and B9 wings.  I've tried a number of sane-looking configurations and none of them seem to work.

I run the sim with empty tanks.  I'm looking at a conventional 1st stage launch with about 5KM/sec delta-V in the space-plane fuel tanks.  I'm imagining space-x like recovery of the 1st stage and a re-usable space plane for the 2nd orbiting stage.

I haven't tried flying it yet -trying to figure out the best way to attach it to the side of a large booster, but that is a separate issue.

 

 

 

[hypervelocity]

hey @frisch! I think I might have something for you -

I had ample success with my Intrepid Spaceplane - a lightweight LEO & Moon Taxi capable of carrying 10 crew and delivering 3.3km/s of delta-v to serve the LEO & Reds Lunar Station (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/148678-13-planetary-domes/&page=7#comment-3105724) operations.

Specs (craft file https://www.sendspace.com/file/4icx8m 

 

Spoiler

Size: 5.6 mts (height), 14.9 mts (width), 18.4 mts (length)

Total Wet Mass (full): 32.6 T

Total Wet Mass (re-entry with RCS fuel): 11.4 T, 200 m/s

Total Dry Mass: 10.4 T

Engines & Capability: 2 x Astris, 3289 m/s; RCS 4 x R5 RCS Thruster Block (Level 4, Aerozine50+NTO)

Performance: Vacuum ISP 297 seconds

Maximum Crew & Life Support: 10 (Crew: 2), 15 days of Life Support

Guidance Systems: Fully automated docking manoeuvres & re-entry descent, manual landing

Comms: 2 x Communotron DTS-M1 (max range 3 GM)

Power: 2 x XT3 Solar Panel Arrays MK1 (12 mt² total), 2 kW/hr

Docking Capability: Yes, 1 x APAS 89-95 Docking Port

 

The vehicle handles reentry very well, keeping stability and control throughout the descent (usual profile is a shallow reentry, 300-140km Ap & 60km Pe, coming down mostly holding 20° AoA)

Total Wet Mass in the screenshots is 11.4T with 200m/s delta-v (RCS fuel for reentry).

I had created a thread in the past asking for spaceplane aid in RSS/RO - there are some good tips in there, plus a link to a spaceplane thread with the basics (try searching for threads I created and you will easily find it).

Also, @NathanKell did a comprehensive youtube video showing the design process of a smaller vehicle:

Hope this helps!

Edited July 4, 2017 by hypervelocity

[winged]

Please delete.

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by winged

[Ernos]

On 6/28/2017 at 0:50 PM, hypervelocity said:

hey @frisch! I think I might have something for you -

I had ample success with my Intrepid Spaceplane - a lightweight LEO & Moon Taxi capable of carrying 10 crew and delivering 3.3km/s of delta-v to serve the LEO & Reds Lunar Station (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/148678-13-planetary-domes/&page=7#comment-3105724) operations.

Specs (craft file available upon request):)

 

  Hide contents

Size: 5.6 mts (height), 14.9 mts (width), 18.4 mts (length)

Total Wet Mass (full): 32.6 T

Total Wet Mass (re-entry with RCS fuel): 11.4 T, 200 m/s

Total Dry Mass: 10.4 T

Engines & Capability: 2 x Astris, 3289 m/s; RCS 4 x R5 RCS Thruster Block (Level 4, Aerozine50+NTO)

Performance: Vacuum ISP 297 seconds

Maximum Crew & Life Support: 10 (Crew: 2), 15 days of Life Support

Guidance Systems: Fully automated docking manoeuvres & re-entry descent, manual landing

Comms: 2 x Communotron DTS-M1 (max range 3 GM)

Power: 2 x XT3 Solar Panel Arrays MK1 (12 mt² total), 2 kW/hr

Docking Capability: Yes, 1 x APAS 89-95 Docking Port

 

The vehicle handles reentry very well, keeping stability and control throughout the descent (usual profile is a shallow reentry, 300-140km Ap & 60km Pe, coming down mostly holding 20° AoA)

Total Wet Mass in the screenshots is 11.4T with 200m/s delta-v (RCS fuel for reentry).

I had created a thread in the past asking for spaceplane aid in RSS/RO - there are some good tips in there, plus a link to a spaceplane thread with the basics (try searching for threads I created and you will easily find it).

Also, @NathanKell did a comprehensive youtube video showing the design process of a smaller vehicle:

Hope this helps!

Can i get the craft files? I am having a hard time betting rockets to orbit in RO, much less aircraft

Also, can someone point me to a video tutorial for how to build and get a rocket to orbit in RO?

 

[Raptor831]

Are there any not-real engines/parts available for RO? I know of the Eyes Turned Skyward parts in RSB and Bluedog and NathanKell had Reach for the Stars once upon a time, but I'd like to have some more what-if or hypothetical parts if I could swing it.

[Aelfhe1m]

39 minutes ago, Raptor831 said:

Are there any not-real engines/parts available for RO? I know of the Eyes Turned Skyward parts in RSB and Bluedog and NathanKell had Reach for the Stars once upon a time, but I'd like to have some more what-if or hypothetical parts if I could swing it.

Well the NFT Vasimir engines have RO configs as do some of the "advanced" ion-engines and there's a couple of nuclear engines from the AtomicAge mod with RO configs.

Other than that KSPI-E has RSS fixes and patches for most of the RO dependencies but not RO per se.

[Raptor831]

@Aelfhe1m Thanks! I do actually have the NFT engines and also Kerbal Atomics now, since CKAN says Atomic Age isn't compatible with 1.2.2.

Was also looking for anything that is historical but never flew. Similar to Big Gemini or Nova parts, since both of them are in various other packs (FASA, BDB, etc). I kind of like that alt-history feel those kinds of parts give you.

[Aelfhe1m]

3 hours ago, Raptor831 said:

Was also looking for anything that is historical but never flew. Similar to Big Gemini or Nova parts, since both of them are in various other packs (FASA, BDB, etc). I kind of like that alt-history feel those kinds of parts give you.

I can't think of anything else off hand that has RSS or RO configs but there's a DynaSoar mod, several versions of the Gemini MOL concept (in addition to the FASA BDB versions), various concept Mars landers and rovers (such as NKR's DEM) or one's "inspired" by The Martian (e.g. the Phoenix Industries rover and MAV - not updated since 1.1.2 unfortunately). And I think the Tantares packs includes several parts for the proposed Soviet Moon lander and N1 rockets.

[Lilienthal]

On 25.6.2017 at 6:00 PM, Bornholio said:

There is a realfuels fix for exploding fuel tanks in dev.  https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/commit/f4156841a586b84601503883116d51ed900d0e2f  You may want to run with cheat (ignore max temp) on while changing craft, at least to ones that have cryofuels

Also a fix for excessive thermal transfer from skin in the RO master. NK made a commit to fix it https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/commit/dc22044a2071de0a85fb4084fcdfd216d16c612c 

if you run using the latest master this is included. (not in CKAN release yet)

Hi, where do I find a relase for 1.2.2 with this fix? I am afraid @NathanKell et al. will release this only in a 1.3 version. Would be great if that fix was release asap also for those of us who cannot compile the code and are running RO for 1.2.2. - Thanks!!

 

[NathanKell]

4 hours ago, Lilienthal said:

Hi, where do I find a relase for 1.2.2 with this fix? I am afraid @NathanKell et al. will release this only in a 1.3 version. Would be great if that fix was release asap also for those of us who cannot compile the code and are running RO for 1.2.2. - Thanks!!

 

@blowfish is working on a 1.2.2 release of this, we're not gonna leave people hanging.

[Bornholio]

18 hours ago, Lilienthal said:

Hi, where do I find a relase for 1.2.2 with this fix? I am afraid @NathanKell et al. will release this only in a 1.3 version. Would be great if that fix was release asap also for those of us who cannot compile the code and are running RO for 1.2.2. - Thanks!!

 

As NathanKell said no hanging, its in commits, so that means it will make its way through testing and become a release.  Anything RO related is going to make sure it has a 1.2.2 backport release since it takes so much effort to get everything related all to 1.3.

RO is easy enough to run off of master. Just use github to get the .zip of the /master/ branch and erase and replace the content of its \GameData\RealismOverhaul\ folder replacing your current RO folder.  Unfortunately this will override CKAN management of the files. 

As for the analytic boiloff fix since it has both 1.3 and 1.2.2 releases its probably easier to either use a config to temporarily turn off boiloff or use ignore temp cheat when transitioning vessels.  I think Blowfish is fighting something launch clamp related inside the code right now. Can you imagine how they could affect RealFuels!
BoilOff_STOP.cfg

Spoiler

@TANK_DEFINITION[*]:FINAL
{
	@TANK,*
	{
		@loss_rate = 0
	}
}

 

 

[phoneix_007]

Is there any way to keep LH2 from evaporating?

[hypervelocity]

@Munar pilot One Intrepid Spaceplane craft file coming right up! https://www.sendspace.com/file/4icx8m (link will be good for 7 days)

[Lilienthal]

On 4.7.2017 at 4:03 AM, NathanKell said:

@blowfish is working on a 1.2.2 release of this, we're not gonna leave people hanging.

Great stuff @blowfish! I just realised that my last post might read as it I expected you guys not to release a 1.2.2 version. I didn't want to say that. I tried to say that I was a little concerned that possibly you might not do it.  (English can be so indirect sometimes. Literal translations for German, where we tend to speak more directly and less polite can be misleading.)

I am looking forward to the port and will just run the overheat cheat in any instances except atmospheric entry or re-entry.

 

[Bornholio]

On 7/4/2017 at 0:51 PM, phoneix_007 said:

Is there any way to keep LH2 from evaporating?

Cryogenic & service module tanks will slow it down, using proper cooling will help, the small and medium extendable heat sinks are supposed to perform that function.  There is a dedicated cryogenic cooler mod that is more realistic in its power usage also.

Regardless timewarp in x1000 or greater can cause problems as the heat calculations go into analytic mode.  If eliminating the game mechanic is what you want a simple config file like my above BoilOff_STOP.cfg one will turn it off.

 

[phoneix_007]

6 hours ago, Bornholio said:

Cryogenic & service module tanks will slow it down, using proper cooling will help, the small and medium extendable heat sinks are supposed to perform that function.  There is a dedicated cryogenic cooler mod that is more realistic in its power usage also.

Regardless timewarp in x1000 or greater can cause problems as the heat calculations go into analytic mode.  If eliminating the game mechanic is what you want a simple config file like my above BoilOff_STOP.cfg one will turn it off.

Can you tell me the name od that mod?

Edited July 6, 2017 by phoneix_007

[Bornholio]

2 hours ago, phoneix_007 said:

Can you tell me the name od that mod?

 

[phoneix_007]

My KSP crashes as soon as I go on EVA. It happens with both stock and FASA capsules. Any idea how to fix it?

[Bornholio]

1 hour ago, phoneix_007 said:

My KSP crashes as soon as I go on EVA. It happens with both stock and FASA capsules. Any idea how to fix it?

Should put on the other thread and Post a log to dropbox or similar.

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Bornholio
add links

[KerbolExplorer]

does somebody know how to do a Plane

because FAR is making it imposible