WIP - Environmental Visual Enhancements Development

[MrMeeb]

20 hours ago, curtquarquesso said:

Exactly what cloud pack are you using in that shot, and what version of EVE?

Constantly searching for the best clouds huh

[curtquarquesso]

Just now, MrMeeb said:

Constantly searching for the best clouds huh

Basically, yep. I'm trying to build a nice looking game at the moment with decent framerate. I recently started using the 64-bit workaround for OS X, and I can actually load visual mods now and not crash every 10 minutes!

EVE and Scatterer are going through a lot of instability right now, and Proot's big KSPRC update is around the corner, so I've give up for a bit. I'll try again when those add-ons are more stable, or possibly when 1.1 drops next year.

[Jimbodiah]

Downloaded the new version, but it's basically broken. Clouds dissappearing or only half the screen etc. Scatterer no longer works in combination with EVE either.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Jimbodiah

[Nhawks17]

11 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

Downloaded the new version, but it's basically broken. Clouds dissappearing or only half the screen etc. Scatterer no longer works in combination with EVE either.

Like rbray said in the OP, you need to post logs and screenshots or he can't help you

[pingopete]

On 11/29/2015, 6:34:40, rbray89 said:

I'll look into it, but I'm not quite sure at the moment.

Sorry my bad was using 4k png's that weren't converted to dds

[rbray89]

Alrighty... So a slew of updates coming soon... unfortunately, there will be a big config change, but it will also allow better ModuleManager support.
The new format is something like

EVE_CLOUDS
{
	OBJECT
	{
		name = Kerbin-clouds1
		body = Kerbin
		altitude = 4000
		detailSpeed = 0,6,0
		settings
		{
			_DetailTex = BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/detail1
			_Color = 255,255,255,255
			_MainTex
			{
				value = BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/Clouds
				type = AlphaCubeMap
				alphaMask = ALPHAMAP_R
			}
		}

...

TEXTURE_CONFIG
{
	OBJECT
	{
		name=BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/Clouds
		format=RGB24
		isCubeMap=True
		texXn=BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/CloudsXn
		texYn=BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/CloudsYn
		texZn=BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/CloudsZn
		texXp=BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/CloudsXp
		texYp=BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/CloudsYp
		texZp=BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/CloudsZp
	}
}

You'll also notice that the _MainTex has a new form... this is an optional form for textures where more parameters can be edited. 

I've also added a new Texture Config Manager that allows detailed control over textures. No more relying on ATM and whatnot to ensure textures shipped in EVE configs are setup properly.

These two changes allow us to introduce cube maps! This should address high-res issues on Macintosh machines (2k*2k textures look GREAT as it is) but will also allow some crazy levels of detail when using >2k textures.

To save memory, we now allow alpha mapping (using RGB of textures to map to alpha). This allows us to use the same texture for multiple cloud maps! It just has to be created properly, and I would recommend using RGB24/RGBA32 as the format to avoid loss with Compressed textures. If you do use the uncompressed versions with alpha mapping, the memory will be the same, but the quality should be noticeably better! Expect pretty poor quality alpha if using DXT, but a QUARTER/THIRD of the memory usage when combined with alpha mapping.

The GUI is also very slick now, being almost entirely procedurally built, allowing me to focus on other tasks rather than GUI maintenance, and I've been building lots of awesome functionality into it, so hopefully it will save me lots of time going forward. 

I'll probably post this update within the next week, along with a nice surprise! 

After that, I'll be working on lighting. Specifically celestial shadows and clouds.

[Nhawks17]

Oh goodness, another config rewrite  Glad to see these new features though, I'll have to do some research on what this will allow me to do with SVE  Thanks for keeping us in the loop rbray  

[rbray89]

2 hours ago, Nhawks17 said:

Oh goodness, another config rewrite  Glad to see these new features though, I'll have to do some research on what this will allow me to do with SVE  Thanks for keeping us in the loop rbray  

Yeah  I really should have thought about this from the get-go. Luckily it is a pretty easy manual change to make in configs. I had to do this to be compatible with module manager, but it should let people do some cool things going forward I hope. The texture updates are the most exciting though, given that we can now either use similar memory for better looks, or lower memory and similar resolution.

[Aegrim]

Think you can add auroras in soon?

 

In the old versions it looked like textures with some movement applied to them but all using your configs. Looked simplish but i'm not gunna imply it's easy because I know I sure as hell can't figure it out.

[pingopete]

Rbray, awesome stuff introducing cubemaps, this will change everything for RSS!!! I'm looking through the configs at the moment, and I'm wondering; can we use the cubemap system for city lights and ground textures too provided we set up the config system as is for clouds? This is getting me ridiculously exited

[rbray89]

1 hour ago, pingopete said:

Rbray, awesome stuff introducing cubemaps, this will change everything for RSS!!! I'm looking through the configs at the moment, and I'm wondering; can we use the cubemap system for city lights and ground textures too provided we set up the config system as is for clouds? This is getting me ridiculously exited

Soon! Working on that right now. I'm also working on the combination example to show off.

[pingopete]

5 minutes ago, rbray89 said:

Soon! Working on that right now. I'm also working on the combination example to show off.

Super awesome, already converting a 16k cloud texture to cubemap to test 6x8kx8k.

EDIT: Nhawks if this really works I'll probably be changing the whole system for clouds in RVE that from being a low res mask+high res detail with transparency to a high detail mask with no detail transparency. This will make MUCH more sense and will look far more realistic for stuff like Earth terrain and cloud textures as they will be distributed correctly across the globe and won't have opbvious repetition, man the possibilities

Edited December 11, 2015 by pingopete

[Kevin Kyle]

On 12/9/2015, 10:33:31, Nhawks17 said:

Oh goodness, another config rewrite  Glad to see these new features though, I'll have to do some research on what this will allow me to do with SVE  Thanks for keeping us in the loop rbray  

Awesome stuff guys, Im currently using SVE so I am looking forward to the results

[pingopete]

Can anyone recommend any software for converting rectangular textures to individual 6 texture cubemaps? All I can seem to find is stuff that converts to a single (cross) cubemap texture. I know you can export like that using SpaceEngine but that doesn't work for everything

Edited December 11, 2015 by pingopete

[Poodmund]

Hugin can do this, it is a very powerful tool that aids in stitching/unstitching images in the way you have suggested.

http://hugin.sourceforge.net/

[pingopete]

41 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

Hugin can do this, it is a very powerful tool that aids in stitching/unstitching images in the way you have suggested.

http://hugin.sourceforge.net/

Thankyou, just gave it a go, couldn't handle 16k though  I'll try some different image formats, maybe dds will work

[Poodmund]

Using Linux it basically uses the panotools libraries which are very powerful within their own right. You may want to delve deeper into panotool's documentation if you want to experiment around a bit.

[pingopete]

6 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

Using Linux it basically uses the panotools libraries which are very powerful within their own right. You may want to delve deeper into panotool's documentation if you want to experiment around a bit.

Thanks, I've had a look through and online and can't seem to find anything about producing multiple images from one. Do I need to be on linux to access the tools necessary to make cubemap textures? I have a partition for mint

Edited December 11, 2015 by pingopete

[Poodmund]

The erect2cubic script within panotools will do this for you. i thought it was included within Hugin; however, the following links may help.

http://vinayhacks.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/converting-equirectangular-panorama-to.html

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Panotools-Script/bin/erect2cubic

What you are essentially doing it converting an equirectangular panorama to a cubic image map. Googling "equirectangular to cubic" brings up a plethora of results.

[pingopete]

9 hours ago, Poodmund said:

The erect2cubic script within panotools will do this for you. i thought it was included within Hugin; however, the following links may help.

http://vinayhacks.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/converting-equirectangular-panorama-to.html

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Panotools-Script/bin/erect2cubic

What you are essentially doing it converting an equirectangular panorama to a cubic image map. Googling "equirectangular to cubic" brings up a plethora of results.

Ahh! thankyou, just figuring it out   

 

EDIT: Got the cubic map sorted  Rbray I've got the 6 textures loaded in ksp, I can set one of them as global and it works but when I change to cubemap I get red in the MainTex box for the name. I noticed in the textures.cfg the cubemap seems to be like an object, that's name is the adress line: BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/Clouds.. and is referred to by the clouds.cfg? Is this how it should be, like does it recognise that first part of the CloudsYp, Xn etc textures? cos I have it set to the above and the textures named the same as in your configs?

DoubeEDIT: Just restarted it and got it working but it's really low res for some reason now, will continue testing

Edited December 12, 2015 by pingopete

[blackrack]

@rbray89 I came across this article on volumetric cloud rendering and thought it was very interesting: http://wiki.nuaj.net/index.php?title=Clouds

It comes with shader code, a good looking video and performance seems solid, the cloudy/stormy preset seems especially realistic to me. I thought it was quite educational and would also like to know what you think about volumetrics rendered like this and if you've ever done any research on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_f0z3Ht-k

Edited December 13, 2015 by blackrack

[rbray89]

32 minutes ago, blackrack said:

@rbray89 I came across this article on volumetric cloud rendering and thought it was very interesting: http://wiki.nuaj.net/index.php?title=Clouds

It comes with shader code, a good looking video and performance seems solid, the cloudy/stormy preset seems especially realistic to me. I thought it was quite educational and would also like to know what you think about volumetrics rendered like this and if you've ever done any research on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_f0z3Ht-k

I've seen this before... Unfortunately it suffers from the same problem almost all approaches have with KSP, and that is that we don't stay in atmosphere. Once you get up high enough, the clouds can't be mapped to something that looks good in orbit.

On 12/11/2015, 1:16:37, pingopete said:

Ahh! thankyou, just figuring it out   

 

EDIT: Got the cubic map sorted  Rbray I've got the 6 textures loaded in ksp, I can set one of them as global and it works but when I change to cubemap I get red in the MainTex box for the name. I noticed in the textures.cfg the cubemap seems to be like an object, that's name is the adress line: BoulderCo/Atmosphere/Textures/Clouds.. and is referred to by the clouds.cfg? Is this how it should be, like does it recognise that first part of the CloudsYp, Xn etc textures? cos I have it set to the above and the textures named the same as in your configs?

DoubeEDIT: Just restarted it and got it working but it's really low res for some reason now, will continue testing

Hmmm... I hope to have the new configs up soon, that will provide a good demo of how to do it with textures.

[tg626]

Oh!!  It's NOT "ALT-O" it's "ALT-0"  (ALT Zero)....

 

[Speadge]

45 minutes ago, rbray89 said:

Hmmm... I hope to have the new configs up soon, that will provide a good demo of how to do it with textures.

hey @rbray89, about the "red line": i had the same problems before when i tried your last dev-version.

actually it also happened from time to time with the "default" config. on some game starts it was fine, but mostly the first one after a change lead to the red line for the MainTex-path.

I "worked around" it by testing each setting / cfg change with two instead of a single gamelaunch... anything caching there? (i deleted the MM-cache after each try).

edit: just in case you want to rebuild it: i tried to get the SVE-config into the rebuilded config-form.... welll - failed miserably
Guess I'll just wait for @Nhawks17 to do that. I guess he is kinda smarter for this
 

Edited December 13, 2015 by Speadge

[blackrack]

2 hours ago, rbray89 said:

I've seen this before... Unfortunately it suffers from the same problem almost all approaches have with KSP, and that is that we don't stay in atmosphere. Once you get up high enough, the clouds can't be mapped to something that looks good in orbit.

Hmmm... I hope to have the new configs up soon, that will provide a good demo of how to do it with textures.

I see, but wouldn't it be possible instead to use the orbital texture as a "mask" for the noise function or whatever it's using to generate it's clouds from?