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[Stock Helicopters & Turboprops] Non DLC Will Always Be More Fun!

Azimech

By Azimech
in KSP1 The Spacecraft Exchange

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Azimech

Azimech

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Posted
29 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

Why contrarotate each prop, probably simpler and lighter for each engine to rotate opposite to cancel out torque

Correct but tuning engines so they have the same performance is a lot of work.

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EpicSpaceTroll139

EpicSpaceTroll139

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Correct but tuning engines so they have the same performance is a lot of work.

I haven't tried this yet, but from other projects, this should work. You could make an engine subassembly and then go into the subassembly craft file and change all the symmetry type lines on the parts to "none." Then when you put it on a plane, mirror symmetry should make a perfect counterpart.

Edited by EpicSpaceTroll139
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selfish_meme

selfish_meme

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26 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

I haven't tried this yet, but from other projects, this should work. You could make an engine subassembly and then go into the subassembly craft file and change all the symmetry type lines on the parts to "none." Then when you put it on a plane, mirror symmetry should make a perfect counterpart.

Is that what Strip Symmetry does in Editor Extensions Redux?

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EpicSpaceTroll139

EpicSpaceTroll139

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11 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

Is that what Strip Symmetry does in Editor Extensions Redux?

I have no idea... I didn't see that button before lol. Maybe because I haven't needed it before. Usually what I'm doing when changing symmetry modes is fixing instances of the editor deciding "Hey! You just replaced your plane's fuselage after fixing something near the cockpit! I bet you want me to change the symmetry on your wings to radial even though you never used it while building!" >:(     Had to do that on several planes, worst of all the A-380... took friggin 20 minutes.

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Gman_builder

Gman_builder

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On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 0:33 PM, Majorjim said:

Damn right it is! You just have to build them properly and carefully!

I have downloaded many off the internet and built my own, but one problem I keep running into, is the antennas clipping through the thermometers and breaking the engine. If you have a solution for this I would love to hear it!

8 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

I haven't tried this yet, but from other projects, this should work. You could make an engine subassembly and then go into the subassembly craft file and change all the symmetry type lines on the parts to "none." Then when you put it on a plane, mirror symmetry should make a perfect counterpart.

When you mirror turboprop subassemblies.... well, all I can say is that the kraken strikes.... and strikes HARD. 

22 hours ago, Azimech said:

That's amazing dude! Beautiful as well!

I'll update my rig soon and set a new benchmark. Rotors and propellers are a different thing, so when I have my new standard prop ready, I'd love to test your engines. How do the engines cope with high speeds (28+ rad/s)? The reason I ask is because there's a design limit and compromise with turboprops, above 28 rad/s you get a massive increase in turbine blade extension due to the Unity/KSP spaghetti joints.

This is why its hard to make reliable turbojets. The blades inside expand to much under high RPM and hit the frame or blower, making bad things happen.

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EpicSpaceTroll139

EpicSpaceTroll139

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4 hours ago, Gman_builder said:

When you mirror turboprop subassemblies.... well, all I can say is that the kraken strikes.... and strikes HARD.

This is why I suggested going into the craft file and removing symmetry on all the parts of the prop assembly. It is using symmetry on parts that already have symmetry that provokes the kraken. Remove the symmetry on the parts before mirroring them, and the kraken should stay away.

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Majorjim!

Majorjim!

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11 hours ago, Gman_builder said:

I have downloaded many off the internet and built my own, but one problem I keep running into, is the antennas clipping through the thermometers and breaking the engine. If you have a solution for this I would love to hear it!

Which thermo hinge did you download of the internet? And can you share the one you are having issues with?

As @EpicSpaceTroll139 showed with his smallest ever turbo prop mini chopper with the right construction my thermo hinges can be strong and reliable.

 All the things I have made them for and released are 100% reliable.

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EpicSpaceTroll139

EpicSpaceTroll139

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Posted (edited)

Ok, it turns out these rotors can get a maximum of 560kN of thrust with 224% thrust efficiency, rotating at 2090 degrees/sec = about 35 rad/s = about 333rpm, assuming runway's altitude. (I determined all this through the Aero Data GUI found in the debug menu.). I might be able to get slightly more if I tweak them for less drag. I'll share them as soon as I get Koro's permission (they're mostly his work).

Edited by EpicSpaceTroll139
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Gman_builder

Gman_builder

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18 hours ago, Majorjim said:

Which thermo hinge did you download of the internet? And can you share the one you are having issues with?

As @EpicSpaceTroll139 showed with his smallest ever turbo prop mini chopper with the right construction my thermo hinges can be strong and reliable.

 All the things I have made them for and released are 100% reliable.

I had problems with to much forward pitch in @EpicSpaceTroll139's mini heli and his super tiny turboprop. They both have the same problem with the antennas clipping through the thermometers.

14 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Ok, it turns out these rotors can get a maximum of 560kN of thrust with 224% thrust efficiency, rotating at 2090 degrees/sec = about 35 rad/s = about 333rpm, assuming runway's altitude. (I determined all this through the Aero Data GUI found in the debug menu.). I might be able to get slightly more if I tweak them for less drag. I'll share them as soon as I get Koro's permission (they're mostly his work).

I was talking to Koro for a little bit on the server, and he said it was all you lol :sticktongue:

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Majorjim!

Majorjim!

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gman_builder said:

I had problems with to much forward pitch in @EpicSpaceTroll139's mini heli and his super tiny turboprop. They both have the same problem with the antennas clipping through the thermometers.

I will have a look at it later if possible. As I always say, I designed it as primarily a low stress, highly reliable door hinge! Anything else is a bonus.

Edited by Majorjim
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Koro

Koro

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Posted (edited)

Here's a download link for the front rotor that was first fitted onto @EpicSpaceTroll139's bigger heli. He did modify the rotor to suit his heli better, so its performance is different.

And thanks for inventing the tiny bearing @Majorjim!

15 hours ago, Gman_builder said:

I had problems with to much forward pitch in @EpicSpaceTroll139's mini heli and his super tiny turboprop. They both have the same problem with the antennas clipping through the thermometers.

I have also encountered the same problem. When flying forward with a heli, the rotor's front area seems to produce more lift than the rear when you view it with F12 in flight. Maybe this could pull the antenna out of the thermotube. I wonder if this could be compensated by bending the rotor's blade tips down, so that rear would create more lift and front less when the rotor is tilted and moving forward?

One thing i noticed to help with the problem is to clip several antennas together into the same thermometer tube instead of just using 1 antenna in the bearing.

Edited by Koro
many antennas
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EpicSpaceTroll139

EpicSpaceTroll139

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7 hours ago, Gman_builder said:

I had problems with to much forward pitch in @EpicSpaceTroll139's mini heli and his super tiny turboprop. They both have the same problem with the antennas clipping through the thermometers

By to much forward pitch, are you referring to leaning the helicopter far forward in an attempt to go fast? Because if so I've found that helicopters don't seem to like going too fast. Even the much larger Titan Mk1 cargo heli (which I showed earlier) isn't reliable over 25m/s. I'm not sure why it happens on the small heli, but the Titan has the excuse that its rotor blade tips start (according to my calculations) to go supersonic. (Then again, that's only really applicable in heavy lift mode, so I really don't know).

 

7 hours ago, Gman_builder said:

I was talking to Koro for a little bit on the server, and he said it was all you lol :sticktongue:

Lol

Edited by EpicSpaceTroll139
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Gman_builder

Gman_builder

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Posted
15 hours ago, Koro said:

Here's a download link for the front rotor that was first fitted onto @EpicSpaceTroll139's bigger heli. He did modify the rotor to suit his heli better, so its performance is different.

And thanks for inventing the tiny bearing @Majorjim!

I have also encountered the same problem. When flying forward with a heli, the rotor's front area seems to produce more lift than the rear when you view it with F12 in flight. Maybe this could pull the antenna out of the thermotube. I wonder if this could be compensated by bending the rotor's blade tips down, so that rear would create more lift and front less when the rotor is tilted and moving forward?

One thing i noticed to help with the problem is to clip several antennas together into the same thermometer tube instead of just using 1 antenna in the bearing.

In a real helicopter, a swashplate angles the blades on one side of the rotor head to produce more thrust on one side of the aircraft. Therefore it moves opposite to where the thrust is produced. (I.E. Thrust on right side of aircraft makes it roll left)  KSP helicopters currently work very different from real life, and if we can't make movable swashplates we will have to find a way to make the entire heli move without breaking the head.

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erasmusguy

erasmusguy

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wotcha.

 

The EG 2 wheel-less bearing turboprop. Needs some more work spent on it but its good enough right now :)

WIt can drag 100t up to 40m/s. Looks okay. Well you can hide it under wing sections......zV68STV.jpg

acjCqCl.jpg

https://kerbalx.com/erasmusguy/EG-2 should you want to have a look. 

 

Cheers

Edited by erasmusguy
*edited cus Im stupid and left out things....
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borbalf

borbalf

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Posted

Hi all!

After lurking this thread for a long time I've finally decided to try and build a working helicopter! At first hinges were the problem, but after some research and reverse engineering I managed to get airborne my LAC Galerider Mk VI!

 

There she is, and now some specs:

Weight @ takeoff: 53.736kg

Liquid Fuel: 4000

Engines: 2x LAC Valor Mk 22

Parts: 204

Mods: none

Recomended Mods: Take Command

Pilots: 2 (+drone core for kerbal-less flying)

Action Groups:

-0: detach rotors

-1: toggle engines

-2: toggle power boost

Cruise Speed: 20 m/s

Top Speed Recorded: 30.9 m/s

 

For her engines i took inspiration from EpicSpaceTroll139 's Titan Mk 2, but I built them myself (learning a lot in the process btw), and as hinges I used Majorjim's thermometer hinge (this one too built from the ground up).

She's still not perfect (far from that) but I'm having so much fun building and flying around:)

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