[Stock Helicopters & Turboprops] Non DLC Will Always Be More Fun!

[Gman_builder]

after re reading all of that convo it appears he went back and edited most of his posts. They were all a lot different than they are now.

[The Optimist]

I think it's time to end this for good.

[life_on_venus]

Well that... wasn't nice... At least it is over now though.

In other news, I did manage to use his WLB to make a jet rotor heli of my own, but it has a strange upward pitching that even 6 reaction wheels and a COM forward of the rotor can't get rid of, spooky .

I've put turboprops on the back burner for now but I hope I can pick it up again later, I always have a problem with the rotating mass wiggling because I foolishly only used a bearing at one end. However while experimenting with Infernal Robotics to get the hinge part out of the way, I noticed that your turbine blades can be two sides of the same structural panel and work. Terrible torque radius though. I don't exactly know what to put on the front burner because I'm actually pretty bad at KSP, as in I crashed into the Mun once and other than that I've never really been out of LKO!

Hopefully this has all blown over and this thread will get back to being a really cool place to talk (or in my case lurk and read!) about engineering in game, I love it when people figure out how to do things like this.

I guess that's all for now! Bye .

[Azimech]

Azi14 "Asura" is online!

Link to album, in there you'll find the download link and instructions.

 

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

6 hours ago, life_on_venus said:

 

In other news, I did manage to use his WLB to make a jet rotor heli of my own, but it has a strange upward pitching that even 6 reaction wheels and a COM forward of the rotor can't get rid of, spooky .

 

Could you send a picture of said helicopter? Also, what speed is this pitch-up problem occurring? I've found in my work with helicopters that assymetric lift (caused by the retreating blade moving slower through air than the advancing blade) and the gyroscopic effects from the spinning rotor can cause odd handling characteristics such as what you are describing. I imagine the gyro effects would be especially pronounced on a tip-jet helicopter, as there is now significant mass at the tips of the rotor. A picture and a bit more descrption could help me to confirm this and I could offer some advice!

Also it can help to bend down the tips of the rotor blades. Don't ask me exactly why it works, but it does wonders for fixing nose up problems at speed.

Edited August 12, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139

[Pds314]

7 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Could you send a picture of said helicopter? Also, what speed is this pitch-up problem occurring? I've found in my work with helicopters that assymetric lift (caused by the retreating blade moving slower through air than the advancing blade) and the gyroscopic effects from the spinning rotor can cause odd handling characteristics such as what you are describing. I imagine the gyro effects would be especially pronounced on a tip-jet helicopter, as there is now significant mass at the tips of the rotor. A picture and a bit more descrption could help me to confirm this and I could offer some advice!

Also it can help to bend down the tips of the rotor blades. Don't ask me exactly why it works, but it does wonders for fixing nose up problems at speed.

Yes. This assymetric lift essentially kills the possibility of a reliable, big, and fast chopper without either a swashplate or KOS or something controlling blade pitch at split-second intervals. If it's big, it must be slower than reasonable or the torque becomes insane and unmanageable. I'm talking about more torque horizontally than torque on the rotor spinning it, by far.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Pds314

[life_on_venus]

Yep, that might be it. Here are some pictures of the Helicopter:

http://imgur.com/a/bQ5bZ

Ignore how ugly it is .

Edited August 12, 2016 by life_on_venus
Imgur embedding wasn't working the way I did it

[mrmcp1]

I am having a similar problem with my coaxial helicopter

It keeps pitching up even with all the reaction wheels

[The Optimist]

22 minutes ago, mrmcp1 said:

I am having a similar problem with my coaxial helicopter

It keeps pitching up even with all the reaction wheels

Make sure the COM is in front of the rotors.

[Azimech]

Based on the Asura, I've made a low part count, ugly helicopter.

https://kerbalx.com/Azimech/77I-Azi15-Archon

 

[mrmcp1]

40 minutes ago, The Optimist said:

Make sure the COM is in front of the rotors.

That seems to have sorted it, thanks. It is almost finished now but the top blade sometimes glitches through the bearing and escapes

[Azimech]

Someone on Facebook said "Now put it in space".

 

?

 

 

 

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

6 hours ago, life_on_venus said:

Yep, that might be it. Here are some pictures of the Helicopter:

http://imgur.com/a/bQ5bZ

Ignore how ugly it is .

Um... Your rotor is ab 1.25 meters in front of the COM

Edited August 12, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139

[life_on_venus]

Oh, thanks. I swore it was behind! Must have stayed up too late! .

I've been messing with turboprops (on the back burner, yep). I tried out Azimech's method of using a stationary exterior and wheels inside, and I've had limited success. I thought I could make a short (albeit wide) engine by placing the turbine blades around the outside of the stationary exterior. The bearing isn't working stabley though! .

I don't have any pictures because I'm at my dad's. I'll fix my helicopter when I get back. Might look at making a turboprop using the JRFB bearing...

[The Optimist]

[Azimech]

What's better than having two stock helicopters?

 

 

 

Two stock helicopters having a dogfight.

 

Well obviously the BDA weaponry isn't stock. But the rest is. And no turrets or missiles, just 4 fixed .50 machine guns.

Surprisingly enough, the AI keeps them in the air, most of the time.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Azimech

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

@Azimech that is amazing! What's the most common killshot? Main rotor bearing? Tail boom? Something else that holds it all together?

 

Anyways I've been doing research in KSP aerodynamics so I can get equations for use in a KOS heli cyclic code. I might post pics of my test results in a bit 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139

[Azimech]

11 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

@Azimech that is amazing! What's the most common killshot? Main rotor bearing? Tail boom? Something else that holds it all together?

 

Anyways I've been doing research in KSP aerodynamics so I can get equations for use in a KOS heli cyclic code. I might post pics of my test results in a bit 

 

 

Rotors and tailbooms. Can't do much about the rotors but tailbooms ... that's a different story.

So I built a new engine and around it this futuristic, heavily armored combat heli. Not yet finished and not very pretty either.

And this test version is only 113 parts.

"No windows?"

Well ehm ... does a tank have large windows?

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Azimech

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

That looks awesome, almost like... A drone heli

Edited August 13, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139

[Azimech]

3 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

That looks awesome, almost like... Does it have traditional anti-torque jets, or do those ones on the "pontoon" do that?

Traditional anti-torque, yes. The ones on the rear are for forward motion.

[Azimech]

 

 

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

It has a glowing fish mouth now? LOL (jk it looks cool)

On a different note, this is some of the stuff I've got so far.

http://imgur.com/a/vy2uq -- A graph I got from an experiment using really basic rig:     I also found this thread that shows how lift varies with angle of attack

I'm going do some tests to verify this though.

Sorry if this seems off topic. It's going towards KOS cyclic controls

Edited August 13, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139
Updated graph -- now shows lift vs. speed up through sound barrier

[Azimech]

Just now, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

It has a glowing fish mouth now? LOL

 

Yeah and when it opens, the big guns & missiles stick out.

[Jon144]

I found an ancient coaxial I made in 2014 but never published on the forum for obvious reasons since it's hideous. But it's obvious it flew. So is Azimech actually the "Inventor" of the KSP stock Coaxial? I don't think so but I don't really think I am either. Azimech is the inventor of the actually good coaxial. And first coaxial turboshaft.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=317112698

Edited August 13, 2016 by Jon144

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Jon144 said:

I found an ancient coaxial I made in 2014 but never published on the forum for obvious reasons since it's hideous. But it's obvious it flew. So is Azimech actually the "Inventor" of the KSP stock Coaxial? I don't think so but I don't really think I am either. Azimech is the inventor of the actually good coaxial. And first coaxial turboshaft.

Awesome man!