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[Stock Helicopters & Turboprops] Non DLC Will Always Be More Fun!

Azimech

By Azimech
in KSP1 The Spacecraft Exchange

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Azimech

Azimech

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Posted
On 10/11/2017 at 6:43 AM, selfish_meme said:

Ha anyone noticed that push pull configuration seems to suffer from the same problem as real life in that the back prop overspeeds? So you need a different blade setting?

Can't say I have ... but the last plane I built like that was 2.5 years ago, if I remember correctly.

1 hour ago, PaperAviator said:

I"m not entirely sure if this is a true turboprop, but...

zLfooxT.jpg

NMLF0eL.jpg

 

Ah, the famous Triebflügel.

To give you an answer: rockets or jets on the wing/rotor tips is a different category. But good build nevertheless.

 

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Azimech

Azimech

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13 hours ago, PaperAviator said:

@Azimech What are they called then?

I actually don't know (yet). Suffice to say, most of them didn't make it past prototype stage. There are lots of problems to deal with in real life. The very first helicopters and airplanes in KSP used this method, this actually motivated me to invent the turboprop/turboshaft engine.

Edited by Azimech
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  • 3 weeks later...
Castille7

Castille7

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, PaperAviator said:

Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I add more blowers? change the fairing to 3.75m? It's not generating enough lift... 

I am still not in the air yet myself with a Turbo but from the looks of it I would reduce the weight starting with the fuel, your lift looks like you have plenty. If still no luck try replacing the cockpit frame with a lighter idea, those beams are a little heavy too.

Edited by Castille7
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PaperAviator

PaperAviator

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Posted
1 hour ago, Castille7 said:

I am still not in the air yet myself with a Turbo but from the looks of it I would reduce the weight starting with the fuel, your lift looks like you have plenty.

I dunno... I still think it's the lift. I'm basing mine off of @EpicSpaceTroll139's e-24 which is a little less than two times as heavy and probably has 10 times the lift...

Spoiler

cgvmsmE.jpg

 

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EpicSpaceTroll139

EpicSpaceTroll139

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Posted (edited)

@PaperAviator How heavy in tons is your heli there?  Assuming your blowers are aligned so that their exhausts are impinging on the very edge of the turbine wheel (make sure they are, this is important for maximal power extraction and efficiency), your 6 blower 2.5m turbine setup should get pretty much the exact same torque as my 4 blower 3.75m turbine setup. 

So if it had the same rotor it could probably fly up to a weight of... somewhere around 80 tons I think, with burners on. Not sure how the tips on your rotor might affect things.  This is also assuming ~5 degree rotor blade incidence.

Also: Have you installed an antitorque system yet? I've found in testing that single-rotor helis sometimes won't take off if they don't have antitorque, even if they have enough power to do so with one on.  I think it has to do with some of the developed power of the turboshaft being lost to spinning the heli.

Edit: also I'd be happy to test the thing for you if you sent the file

Edited by EpicSpaceTroll139
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EpicSpaceTroll139

EpicSpaceTroll139

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Posted
4 minutes ago, PaperAviator said:

@EpicSpaceTroll139 Thanks for the reply! :) If I remember correctly, it's 39 tons. I'm probably going to do some fiddling with the rotor system before I send you a file, if I ever do.

Huh... I would think that thing would easily fly then. Maybe me assumption of linear torque / efficiency of power conversion with turbine radius is incorrect. To be honest I haven't worked with turbines of different sizes enough to have a good intuition on it.

Good luck with it! :)

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Azimech

Azimech

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2 hours ago, PaperAviator said:

@EpicSpaceTroll139 Thanks for the reply! :) If I remember correctly, it's 39 tons. I'm probably going to do some fiddling with the rotor system before I send you a file, if I ever do.

Are you by chance using Kerbal Joint Reinforcement or you have chosen Rigid Joints on any part through the advanced tweakables? They limit the maximum rotational speed of a turbine. It's a bug but maybe Squad/Unity might call it a feature.

I'd like to examine your craft as well.

Also, an engine speed readout is extremely helpful, at all times, when designing an engine.

You'll need this, it shows the rotational speed in rad/s, next to the Navball.

 

Edited by Azimech
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HolidayTheLeek

HolidayTheLeek

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hello!

I've decided I wanted to create turboprops, since electric propellers became a bit boring for me.

My three main goals were:

-To make the turboprops as compact as I can

-To create a decent amount of power out of them

-To have decent reliability

I think I've succeeded so far, except when it comes to power.

Here's my first turboprop AND, at the same time, my first coaxial propeller.

dnDtJY9.jpgaBT31bb.jpg

This plane is powered by 12 Juno engines, however, each propeller is being powered by 6. It has a top speed of about 43m/s, and has an endurance of about 10-11 minutes. In the second picture, you may be noticing a lack of a tail, that's not a special design feature, when testing I found I forgot to attach a tail.

I'm not the most amazing when it comes to turboprops though, and I'd like help with optimizing this plane further.

A download link will be (HERE) if you want to try it and test it.

For those who want to test it, be sure to turn the engine on (full throttle) and leave the plane with SAS. It should take off by itself. Wait until it gets to a speed of 35-40m/s if you want to do a turn to prevent stalling.

Edited by HolidayTheLeek
I wrote two instead of three
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EpicSpaceTroll139

EpicSpaceTroll139

Posted
Posted
On 11/5/2017 at 6:13 PM, PaperAviator said:

*UPDATE:*

It works! I can't believe how stupid I was... I hadn't locked the gimbals for the panthers so sas was throwing them off... :P 

  Hide contents

 

Haha I've done that before! Should have thought to mention it.

@HolidayTheLeek Nice work. I didn't get a turboprop to fly that well on my first time. I'll try to take a look at that when I have the opportunity. :)

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seiryu

seiryu

Posted
Posted (edited)

Testing my helicopter which has those swashplate thingies.

Rotorhead works fine but, my turbofan engine was pretty low thrust.

So,this GIF was taken by using low"G"cheat.

uctZnBS.gif

It's designed to control with only QEWS keys :) 

WWc54lB.png

UhxINtK.png

Edited by seiryu
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Azimech

Azimech

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31 minutes ago, seiryu said:

Testing my helicopter which has those swashplate thingies.

Rotorhead works fine but, my turbofan engine was pretty low thrust.

So,this GIF was taken by using low"G"cheat.

uctZnBS.gif

It's designed to control with only QEWS keys :) 

WWc54lB.png

UhxINtK.png

Mighty fine work! Curious to see how it will hold with the higher speeds required for normal gravity. If you're running 1.3.1, I suggest replacing the Panthers with Wheesleys. They provide the highest ISP of the 1.25m turbofans with a thrust comparable with Panthers in wet mode.

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seiryu

seiryu

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11 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Mighty fine work! Curious to see how it will hold with the higher speeds required for normal gravity. If you're running 1.3.1, I suggest replacing the Panthers with Wheesleys. They provide the highest ISP of the 1.25m turbofans with a thrust comparable with Panthers in wet mode.

there some problems about my helicopter.

1:too low thrust

2:rotor acceleration stops at 7RAD/s

3:too low rigidity

so, it wont fly at nomal gravity.

1SFNztf.png

P.S. My KSP is still 1.3.0 so wheesleys won't work. I better update my KSP :) 

Edited by seiryu
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Azimech

Azimech

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1 hour ago, seiryu said:

there some problems about my helicopter.

1:too low thrust

2:rotor acceleration stops at 7RAD/s

3:too low rigidity

so, it wont fly at nomal gravity.

1SFNztf.png

 

One of the big limiting factors is the 7 rad/s limit. I've issues a bug report. Please vote for it over here: https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16139

 

And I mean all of you turboheads ;-)

Edited by Azimech
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qzgy

qzgy

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Posted
Just now, Azimech said:

Doesn't seem to be and only constructions using the RCS balls seem affected.

Hmmm.... thats odd. And may also explain why a working helicopter stopped....

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