[1.12.x] Cryogenic Engines: Liquid Hydrogen and Methane Rockets! (Jan 22, 2022)

[Nertea]

Hmm, quick thoughts:

MODULE
{
        name = MultiModeEngine
        primaryEngineID = LH2
        secondaryEngineID = LCH4
        primaryEngineModeDisplayName = Hydrolox
        secondaryEngineModeDisplayName = Methalox
}

As I recall, this is bugged in KSP, the ID and the DisplayNames should be the same (see the KA patch which localizes them as the same as the IDs).

[jimmymcgoochie]

1 hour ago, Nertea said:

Hmm, quick thoughts:

MODULE
{
        name = MultiModeEngine
        primaryEngineID = LH2
        secondaryEngineID = LCH4
        primaryEngineModeDisplayName = Hydrolox
        secondaryEngineModeDisplayName = Methalox
}

As I recall, this is bugged in KSP, the ID and the DisplayNames should be the same (see the KA patch which localizes them as the same as the IDs).

I tried making the DisplayNames the same as the EngineIDs but all that did was remove the methalox option entirely. Various tweaks using AFTER/FOR/NEEDS didn't fix it either, this has gone beyond my C# abilities so I might just stick with the blanket switch to methalox or blatantly steal borrow someone else's idea of duplicating the parts and altering the stats that way, which would result in two copies of each engine using one fuel each. It's less elegant, but I might be able to make that work.

Edited May 4, 2020 by jimmymcgoochie

[Nertea]

I would go look at the ConfigCache to see what your patch actually resulted in next. 

[jimmymcgoochie]

1 hour ago, Nertea said:

I would go look at the ConfigCache to see what your patch actually resulted in next. 

I found the problem- changing engineID = LH2 to %engineID = LH2 has done the trick, the engine can now be toggled between the two fuel modes at will. Interestingly, it still works even though the DisplayNames don't match the engineIDs.

The only problem now is that the plume and sound effects don't work when it's in hydrolox mode, only methalox; everything else in the two ModuleEngineFX-es is the same so I'm at a loss to explain why this is happening. There are also two toggle/activate/shutdown engine options when assigning action groups but that's something I've seen before with other switchable engines.

[Nertea]

24 minutes ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

I found the problem- changing engineID = LH2 to %engineID = LH2 has done the trick, the engine can now be toggled between the two fuel modes at will. Interestingly, it still works even though the DisplayNames don't match the engineIDs.

The only problem now is that the plume and sound effects don't work when it's in hydrolox mode, only methalox; everything else in the two ModuleEngineFX-es is the same so I'm at a loss to explain why this is happening. There are also two toggle/activate/shutdown engine options when assigning action groups but that's something I've seen before with other switchable engines.

Cool, maybe Squad actually fixed something in the last couple patches lol.

I believe (not totally sure) that you need to copy the effects block for the other mod to make all the effects (including sound) work. So adding a new fx-lch4 block, then changing the effect in your newly added LCH4 ModuleEnginesFX. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Nertea

[Wyzard]

33 minutes ago, Nertea said:

I believe (not totally sure) that you need to copy the effects block for the other mod to make all the effects (including sound) work.

Yep.  For reference, the initial fix for that in KA was pull #44, with followup discussion in bug #74 when the earlier fix interacted badly with RealPlume.  (@jimmymcgoochie, the info in those links should be helpful to you.)

[jimmymcgoochie]

Thanks for your help @Nertea and @Wyzard, I've almost got it working now- the sound and plume effects are working in both modes and the switching is working as expected. Now all I have to do is figure out why the engine bell glows blue in hydrogen mode but not methane mode (not sure what module to duplicate for that) and also why it seems to be using ~30 methane per oxidizer rather than 3 as intended.

A patch that duplicates the parts and fixes them to methalox instead of hydrolox was much easier to do, but mode-switching is a much more elegant way of doing it.

[cornelius_4]

I updated Cryo Tanks to 1.5 and the "Enable Cooling" option was missing from regular tanks. After reverting to 1.4.2, the option was available again.

[jimmymcgoochie]

1 hour ago, cornelius_4 said:

I updated Cryo Tanks to 1.5 and the "Enable Cooling" option was missing from regular tanks. After reverting to 1.4.2, the option was available again.

I’ve seen the same thing in a modded 1.8.1 game, the cryo tanks themselves work fine but all other tanks do not have cooling enabled- @Nertea was this a deliberate design choice or is it a bug?

[Nertea]

I left the testing flag for banning cooling on in that patch. Goddamit. 

[Nertea]

I just released CryoTanks 1.5.1 with the one-line fix for this. 

[Regor]

On 5/14/2020 at 2:55 AM, Nertea said:

I just released CryoTanks 1.5.1 with the one-line fix for this. 

I thought that was just a feature lol.

My mantra: It's not a bug, it's a feature!

Edited May 27, 2020 by mabdi36

[Unixsystem]

This mod seems extremely well made. The engines and tanks both look great, the engines all seem relatively well balanced to one another and the addition of boil off is a neat feature to take into consideration in ship design.

All that said, I can't for the life of me find a scenario where the added ISP outweighs the added engine/tankage weight needed to take advantage of it. I'm still relatively early in my campaign, so is it just a matter of the benefits becoming more noticeable as the ships get bigger and bigger? Even getting into 2.5m+ parts it still seems like its always easier and more effective to just strap a traditional LOX engine on and get basically the same delta-V.

I know that this is an issue IRL as well so I know it's less of a mod problem and more of a physics problem, but from a pure gameplay perspective where are the actual use cases where it definitely makes sense to load up a bigger H2 rocket over a smaller LOX one?

[sturmhauke]

I actually made a comparison between Cryo engines and stock engines. This was from a few versions ago, so it's a bit out of date, but the principles should still hold. Basically, for sufficiently large rockets with similar dV values, an LH rocket will be lighter and longer than an equivalent LF rocket.

https://imgur.com/a/U33rjq6

[enewmen]

Hi all.

After playing again after a few months, most of my rockets stopped working.  Missing Cryoengine-125-1 and cryoengine-125-2.

Is there an update to fix this or a text file change I can do to replace old engines with correct engines?  I did try to update to the newest cryogenic engines and have the same problem.  Some of my rockets are very complex and difficult to re-create.

One difference I notice is there is no more LH2/OX option on stock(ish) engines - even with all mods installed. So I can't use a Hecate engine unless I get real (orange tin foil) cryogenic fuel tanks with LH2.

After I'm at least able to load the old rockets, then I can fix the fuel tanks used if needed.

thanks!

Edited June 8, 2020 by enewmen

[Sqeep91]

On 4/29/2015 at 10:06 PM, Nertea said:

To store your liquid hydrogen fuels, I've provided ModuleManager/B9PartSwitch configs that allow you to change the contents of stock tanks between LF/O, LH2/O, LF, O and LH2

Hey,

do I have to move these configs?  I can't get the stock tanks to run with LH2 / O
 

greetings

[Nertea]

8 hours ago, enewmen said:

Hi all.

After playing again after a few months, most of my rockets stopped working.  Missing Cryoengine-125-1 and cryoengine-125-2.

Is there an update to fix this or a text file change I can do to replace old engines with correct engines?  I did try to update to the newest cryogenic engines and have the same problem.  Some of my rockets are very complex and difficult to re-create.

One difference I notice is there is no more LH2/OX option on stock(ish) engines - even with all mods installed. So I can't use a Hecate engine unless I get real (orange tin foil) cryogenic fuel tanks with LH2.

After I'm at least able to load the old rockets, then I can fix the fuel tanks used if needed.

thanks!

Models were changed some time ago, new models have different dimensions. You can download an older version of the mod (check the changelogs for which one), install it, and use that to remove the old engines. 

2 minutes ago, Sqeep91 said:

Hey,

do I have to move these configs?  I can't get the stock tanks to run with LH2 / O
 

greetings

Ensure you have installed the CryoTanks addon (packaged with the mod).

[rebel-1]

14 minutes ago, Sqeep91 said:

Hey,

do I have to move these configs?  I can't get the stock tanks to run with LH2 / O
 

greetings

You mean the boiling of fuel in the drain tanks? Edited in the config.

@Nertea I don't think I should have made such drastic changes to the inter-patch version of the game. With all due respect, this is true. I had to edit the files myself after the update and start with the old saves. Не надо так!

Edited June 8, 2020 by rebel-1

[Sqeep91]

Yes i have all installed: Cryo Core, Tanks and Engine. But i cant change the Stock Tanks to lh2/0. the rest runs perfectly.  thought the configs should move.  B9PartSwitch is also installed

[Nertea]

44 minutes ago, Sqeep91 said:

Yes i have all installed: Cryo Core, Tanks and Engine. But i cant change the Stock Tanks to lh2/0. the rest runs perfectly.  thought the configs should move.  B9PartSwitch is also installed

Do you have something else that conflicts? This mod disables itself if you have some kind of other fuel switcher running, like IFS or similar. 

58 minutes ago, rebel-1 said:

You mean the boiling of fuel in the drain tanks? Edited in the config.

@Nertea I don't think I should have made such drastic changes to the inter-patch version of the game. With all due respect, this is true. I had to edit the files myself after the update and start with the old saves. Не надо так!

 

I'm not 100% sure what you mean. If you mean 'you shouldn't have deleted the old parts', I gave people several months before I removed them. I'm not keeping garbage floating around in mods, particularly ones that are RAM-constrained. 

[rebel-1]

1 hour ago, Nertea said:

I'm not 100% sure what you mean. If you mean 'you shouldn't have deleted the old parts', I gave people several months before I removed them. I'm not keeping garbage floating around in mods, particularly ones that are RAM-constrained. 

I mean the item "CoolingAllowed = false".(((((( 

 

This leads to the fact that it is desirable to release critical mod changes with new versions of the game

Edited June 8, 2020 by rebel-1

[Nertea]

30 minutes ago, rebel-1 said:

I mean the item "CoolingAllowed = false".(((((( 

 

This leads to the fact that it is desirable to release critical mod changes with new versions of the game

That was a bug and was fixed less than a day after release.

[Marschig]

atmosphereCurve ends at 4 atm. on most (possibly all) engines. On some engines it ends with a significant value. Example: 

	name = cryoengine-vesuvius-1 
...
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 425
			key = 1 376
			key = 4 305
		} 

So, cryoengine-vesuvius-1 has Isp 305 even at 15 atm. on Jool.
Is this planned?

[dlrk]

@Nertea I'm trying to create an MFT config for LqdMethane, and I noticed that the LqdHydrogen tank definition has a mass of -0.00033386364, Do you know why it was set as negative?

Edited June 14, 2020 by dlrk

[dlrk]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vp57cz0omevoqyb/CryoTanksBoiloff.cfg?dl=0

For anyone else using Modular Fuel Tanks, this is a quick + dirty modified version of the FuelTanksSwitcherCfg to add boiloff/cooling to tanks that don't have MFT configs, like the CryoTanks included LH2 tanks. It doesn't add Methane to cryotanks, but I'm going to make a patch for that and PR it once I find out why LqdHydrogen was set in that patch to a negative mass.

Edited June 14, 2020 by dlrk