Has everyone forgotten about the fabled extra gas planets?

[Robotengineer]

Is this version 3.0 or 4.0 of this thread? I can't remember.

Anyways, the general conclusion from previous threads of the same topic is that new planets would be cool, but that the current planets need to be much more interesting before adding new planets.

[sal_vager]

Is this version 3.0 or 4.0 of this thread? I can't remember.

Anyways, the general conclusion from previous threads of the same topic is that new planets would be cool, but that the current planets need to be much more interesting before adding new planets.

Version 400.

[Psycix]

It's good to bring stuff like this up every now and then. Just the chance of it being answered is already worth it.

GP2, never forget.

[regex]

I never really got the whole "more meaningful things to do" line. Like what, right-click on more things? We've already added ISRU, we have biomes for science gathering and contracts the involve driving/orbiting over certain things, putting bases up, etc... Even if we just added in-situ construction ala KAS it'd just be adding more art projects to the solar system. Quite frankly KSP is more about going places, I'd much rather have more destinations than more silly right-click fluff.

Sorry, I'd need much more convincing on what is actually "meaningful things to do" on planets than what we have right now.

[Robotengineer]

I'd settle for scenery, the current surface views of almost every planet/moon are quite drab. Gorges, volcanoes, glaciers, etc. would be nice.

[regex]

I'd settle for scenery, the current surface views of almost every planet/moon are quite drab. Gorges, volcanoes, glaciers, etc. would be nice.

I get the desire for more pretty places but that hardly qualifies as "meaningful things to do". IMO that falls into the same category as "more places to go".

[Whirligig Girl]

I get the desire for more pretty places but that hardly qualifies as "meaningful things to do". IMO that falls into the same category as "more places to go".

I want more places to go to and return from, but Eve is a challenge that continues to elude me. But for people like me, I heartily recommend OuterPlanets mod. Just having those objects is an incentive enough for me to keep playing KSP until I have the bravery to attempt Eve.

That said, giving all of the planets interesting things to do on them would function much better. All of the places may look similar but be new places to go to. Things like Laythe having volcanoes, Vall having cryovolcanoes, Eve having storms and clouds, Moho being really hot again. Seriously, why in Kraken's name did they remove Moho's superheat. It could have been really fun, now it's a generic Munalike.

[basic.syntax]

We've had threads about meaningful things, tater has written extensively in support of an overhaul to how science could work. Some of that would create more meaning for me. I don't feel its quite right that everywhere in a biome region is identical for science purposes.

[regex]

We've had threads about meaningful things, tater has written extensively in support of an overhaul to how science could work. Some of that would create more meaning for me. I don't feel its quite right that everywhere in a biome region is identical for science purposes.

What about for people who play sandbox? Is that pretty much invalid gameplay now that we have a career mode? Is it less important for some reason? I find most of the current career mode to be a pretty meaningless, boring grind. Adding more "meaningful things to do" may involve an overhaul to career mode but that still doesn't address the basic need of more places to go and see in sandbox mode.

[Superfluous J]

I never really got the whole "more meaningful things to do" line.

Essentially, anything that you want new planets for, I would like the current planets to do them instead. Want a ring around a gas giant? Put one around Jool. Want a moon orbiting retrograde? Make Vall do it. Want something with a crazy tilted axis? Oh wait that's impossible. But if you could, make Eve do it, or Dres. Nobody likes Dres. Make Dres do it.

[regex]

Essentially, anything that you want new planets for, I would like the current planets to do them instead..

So the old planets would be "more places to go"? You're basically saying we should scale up the Kerbol system and give it the same resolution, right? Or maybe Jool should be moved to Eeloo's orbit and Eeloo should be another of its moons? Or, what, move Dres out past Eeloo's orbit so we have a "Pluto" instead of a Ceres?

Sorry, the current planets really don't solve the problem of "more places to go". The whole point of GP2 is to have another place to visit, further out, more challenging.

[basic.syntax]

Poor Dres, lol.

regex: you will get your wish eventually. HarvesteR has said that he choses and area to focus on based on what has been sitting the longest with little attention. Career had to be fleshed out after Sandbox, and it if it had more flesh on it, I think that would help alleviate the sense of 'meaningless, boring grind.' IF you could drop the visual detail of an open world RPG onto the various worlds, with characters and stories, that would also be added visual interest and new forum challenge fodder, for Sandbox players. (The amount of work required would be staggering and expensive, and so, I think it's unlikely to happen.)

Its too early to tell what 1.1 and 1.2 will bring new-feature wise, after the Unity porting work. We know HarvesteR wants to focus on Multiplayer, and Mu will be doing more core game feature work. Edit: At some point tho, I think they will find the 'bandwidth' to put more sand in the sandbox.

Edited June 9, 2015 by basic.syntax

[Endersmens]

Well, for the "more things to do" thing, I have a dream of the planets being very interesting on the surface, and that while roving or EVAing around, when you find something interesting, you could put in a "log report" about it, giving details as to what you see, how it behaves, its location and such. Then when you transmit the log, or recover it, you would get a small amount of science for "leaning" about the location.

Don't even get me started on taking pictures for log books.

[regex]

At some point tho, I think they will find the 'bandwidth' to put more sand in the sandbox.

That's not at all what I'm talking about. This isn't about only sandbox, it's about more places to go, making the system feel bigger, serving all game modes.

If we want more to see, adding planets solves that in much the same way that polishing the current ones does only they're new places with new delta-V requirements and challenges, not the same-old, same-old. If we want "more meaningful things to do", well, that needs to include sandbox, science, and career mode play insofar as "meaningful" is concerned since adding more planets serves all games modes using the existing game systems. You can't just say "if we overhaul the science and career system we'll have more to do" because, at the end of the day, I'm just going to Duna again and again and again in sandbox mode and ffs that's getting old even in career mode which will probably never get the overhaul it desperately needs because ~Squad~ (it's a pipe-dream, people).

What do we mean by "meaningful things to do" in regards to sandbox, science, and career mode play, and what serves all those game modes best? Personally, I think adding a few more places to go further and further out would help all game modes immensely.

[Endersmens]

That's not at all what I'm talking about. This isn't about only sandbox, it's about more places to go, making the system feel bigger, serving all game modes.

If we want more to see, adding planets solves that in much the same way that polishing the current ones does only they're new places with new delta-V requirements and challenges, not the same-old, same-old. If we want "more meaningful things to do", well, that needs to include sandbox, science, and career mode play insofar as "meaningful" is concerned since adding more planets serves all games modes using the existing game systems. You can't just say "if we overhaul the science and career system we'll have more to do" because, at the end of the day, I'm just going to Duna again and again and again in sandbox mode and ffs that's getting old even in career mode which will probably never get the overhaul it desperately needs because ~Squad~ (it's a pipe-dream, people).

What do we mean by "meaningful things to do" in regards to sandbox, science, and career mode play, and what serves all those game modes best? Personally, I think adding a few more places to go further and further out would help all game modes immensely.

See my above post, would something like that interest you?

[regex]

See my above post, would something like that interest you?

How does that provide a "meaningful thing to do" in sandbox mode? I get some fluff text? Big deal.

[Endersmens]

How does that provide a "meaningful thing to do" in sandbox mode? I get some fluff text? Big deal.

Well I was talking about career when I wrote that, didn't read the sandbox part until your post after it. But still, would logging things you see not be something meaningful to do in sandbox?

Right now in sandbox all we have is "go places" and I feel like being able to log the sights you see there and such would give something else to do. Accumulate as many logs of things as you can, try to find all the interesting things on one planet, ect.

[Rath]

it's stable with current builds? no cracken?

*Kracken*

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I'd settle for scenery, the current surface views of almost every planet/moon are quite drab. Gorges, volcanoes, glaciers, etc. would be nice.

If they can get dynamic terrain implemented that would be awesome. Expecilly if there were moving glaciers on vall and the flats grew and shrank on minimus posing a danger for bases.

[Superfluous J]

So the old planets would be "more places to go"?

No, it'd be "more stuff to do."

You're basically saying we should scale up the Kerbol system and give it the same resolution, right? Or maybe Jool should be moved to Eeloo's orbit and Eeloo should be another of its moons? Or, what, move Dres out past Eeloo's orbit so we have a "Pluto" instead of a Ceres?

No. I'm saying that once you've done an interplanetary transfer the only reason to do another is because you either enjoy it or are checking off another planet from your bucket list. Nothing will make someone enjoy interplanetary transfers if they don't already, and eventually there's no reason to do them in and of themselves. You want 1 more reason to do an interplanetary tansfer and 3-5 more reasons to perform a landing. I want millions of reasons to continue to go back to where we've already been so I don't get bored with "GP2" any faster than I got bored with Jool.

Sorry, the current planets really don't solve the problem of "more places to go". The whole point of GP2 is to have another place to visit, further out, more challenging.

For the several hours it takes to build the ship to get there, the 5 extra minutes it takes to time warp there, and the day or so landing - once - on each moon. Then you'll be aching for "GP3" or some other planet.

And I'll still wish there was a reason to land a second time on Mun.

Adding a planet to this game will fix it as well as adding a kid fixes a marriage.

[regex]

Adding a planet to this game will fix it as well as adding a kid fixes a marriage.

And yet no one has really proposed any "meaningful things to do" aside from more sightseeing, which I don't really find any more "meaningful" than adding more planets because they're essentially the same thing.

[Endersmens]

And I'll still wish there was a reason to land a second time on Mun.

My Logbook suggestion (with the addition of interesting surface features, dynamic stuffs, ect) would be a reason for me to go back a second time, to explore other areas and see what there is to see. I only tried roving once and I hated it cause it basically a game of "I spy, with my little eye-" "a grey rock, I know already! We've done this hundreds of times..."

if their were canyons, cool crater effects from volcanism, stuff like that to go visit and explore and take notes on, I would hit the Mun up every third launch.

Adding a planet to this game will fix it as well as adding a kid fixes a marriage.

I can't even

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And yet no one has really proposed any "meaningful things to do" aside from more sightseeing, which I don't really find any more "meaningful" than adding more planets because they're essentially the same thing.

What have you proposed as "meaningful things to do?" (I'm curious, i might've missed it)

[regex]

What have you proposed as "meaningful things to do?" (I'm curious, i might've missed it)

Nothing, I'm trying to figure out what everyone means by "meaningful things to do" when they say "we don't need more planets in the game, we need more meaningful things to do". Because, as I see it, adding planets is just as good, if not better, than polishing the turds we have now and no one has proposed anything "meaningful" that serves all modes of play in place of more places to go.

[Superfluous J]

And yet no one has really proposed any "meaningful things to do" aside from more sightseeing, which I don't really find any more "meaningful" than adding more planets because they're essentially the same thing.

I think the big problem is that while more planets won't fix (just offset) the problem, "more things to do" is likely impossible without a major rewrite of the game.

Here's a few of my ideas. All would be difficult to impossible to implement which is why I never actually suggest them.

Colonies. You find a spot on Mun, based on the colonists' requirements. It needs ground water and a view of Kerbin. It can't be more than 2 degree slope, or has to be higher than 75% of the ground within 2km of it. You build a seed base for them, carry it all up there, and get it all set. Then you bring X colonists to live on that base. Then, it becomes a separate entity in the game that slowly grows. Perhaps it asks you to bring up new modules. Perhaps it builds its own procedurally. Eventually, it starts producing ore. Or water. Or some other resource, and offers it for sale. Then they ask you to build them a space station, and now for a bit more money you can buy stuff from that instead. All the while, the base (that you can't otherwise interact with) grows.

Kerbaforming After doing multiple readings on Duna, in and around the poles and the canyon, the scientists figure out a plan for Kerbaforming it. It will take centuries, but eventually we can live there. You perform several deliveries of whatever machines to the places and they start their work. 100 years later you can live in the bottom of the canyon, with only respirators. 100 years later, you can walk around. 1000 years after you start, Duna is "Kerbin 2."

Offworld bases Like your "Move KSC around" mod. The aibility to set up full-service bases on other worlds. Possibly in tandem with the above 2 things.

In all these, you won't just take stuff to Duna and be done, or take stuff to Minmus and be done. The requirements will be environmental and vague enough to require hunting. And once you set up the things, they become easter-egg style structures but with a landing pad for your deliveries. Or orbital stations on rails but with a docking port that doesn't function like a docking port in the game, but makes you be "landed" at the station.

I would also like life support in the game that utilizes this kind of stuff. Grow crops on Duna a la "The Martian." But guess what? The canyon isn't very good for that. Find a nice flat midlands area and maybe we're talking.

But like I said, these are all useless to suggest or even think about. The game as-is won't support them.

But it will support Yellow Jool and its 4 moons that look just like the other moons in the game, so I suppose that's a thing too.

[basic.syntax]

I'm with 5th: adding GP2 and a couple moons is not enough to satisfy, for more than a few game sessions. It falls into the trap (that the game is currently in, and most games find themselves in) that content can't be created faster than it can be consumed. KSP will need a multi-system expansion, and revised timewarp system (probably to include thrust on rails) to enable transit that isn't pure science fiction.

Since I find a lot of entertainment potential in career, I personally am happy with finding more that's worth exploring on the worlds we have, adding more variety to the landscapes, linked contracts / missions with stories to tell and mysteries to unravel.

I don't exclude both possibilities happening, slowly, as long as the game continues to generate sales and find new players.

[adsii1970]

And yet no one has really proposed any "meaningful things to do" aside from more sightseeing, which I don't really find any more "meaningful" than adding more planets because they're essentially the same thing.

I've thought about it. Why not put a derelict vessel on an asteroid/comet - one with an orbit that is eccentric, and maybe only enters into the Kerbol system every fifty years of Kerbin time? Discover the derelict ship while sending a probe to map the comet as one contract, then maybe visit/recover the derelict later in the game as the tech tree fills out?