CobaltWolf

[1.6.X] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.5.2 "Бруно" 8/Feb/2019)

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, viveleroi said:

Has the Hokulani science lab been removed? I added Bluedog to a new 1.7.3 install with some other mods and I can't find it anywhere. It's possible I've missed it but I spent an hour looking through every node.

It definitely hasn't been. Do you want to post your KSP.log file (it lives next to the game exe) so I can see it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CobaltWolf said:

It definitely hasn't been. Do you want to post your KSP.log file (it lives next to the game exe) so I can see it?

https://helion3.s3.amazonaws.com/KSP.log

Which node is it usually in? I've focused on all of the command module/science/habitation nodes but even poked around in the aero/nuclear/probe nodes. I'm trying to get the QuickSearch mod working so I can search the tech tree, but I've never had this much trouble finding something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, viveleroi said:

https://helion3.s3.amazonaws.com/KSP.log

Which node is it usually in? I've focused on all of the command module/science/habitation nodes but even poked around in the aero/nuclear/probe nodes. I'm trying to get the QuickSearch mod working so I can search the tech tree, but I've never had this much trouble finding something.

Should be in Science. Have you tried using the search bar at the top left? Searching for Skylab or Hokulani should bring up all the related par, including the labs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

Should be in Science. Have you tried using the search bar at the top left? Searching for Skylab or Hokulani should bring up all the related par, including the labs.

I haven't unlocked it yet. I'm trying to find it in the tech tree. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Friznit said:

You have an impressively encyclopedic knowledge of US space rocket history but where do you find this stuff?  I'm been trying to flesh out the wiki with details of some of the more interesting early concepts that can be built with BDB parts but information is scarce.

As Cobalt stated above, I tend to shoot from the hip  This is because I have a pretty impressive memory (sorry NOT trying to brag)..... But again like Cobaltwolf stated, I don't do a good job checking sources when posting and can easily get things wrong.    I have been trying to state things as IIRCs for a while now to "cover myself" and cover you all... AKA stating the info is out there but I might not be remembering it correctly.   Here is the problem with a very good but NOT eidetic or photographic memory.  You might remember the facts and can shoot them off the hip but you don't always remember WHERE you got them and that can lead to you being wrong more than right.  Oh and if you THINK you know the answer, you are likely going to share it even if it might be wrong.

Of course the advantage is that even when I am wrong, it can help others to find the info themselves via either a more focused search or allow them to realize there is a different way/place to find it out.  

The scary thing is this.   I don't know a lot about Space rocketry.   I got into KSP mostly because I like the lego aspects of it (and I am at BDB because I want QUALITY, HISTORIC, and AWESOME models!) 

To your questions specifically now @Friznit  I read the Technical documents, I don't use history pages as anything but a reference for the technical documents.   While not in degree or certification, I am an Engineer at heart, I take things apart and try to come up with a better way to build them (hence my love for KSP)   98% of my knowledge on Space/Rockets comes from my Voluminous Library of AIRCRAFT technical/engineering books.  The rest is from deep dives on the inter-tubes-webs err internet! (you know those rabbit holes you fall down when researching X and end up learning about A-B-C instead?)   Now in 10 minutes of reading the document Cobaltwolf linked above I already am referencing (in my head) engine design (jet) and car performance upgrades (superchargers for cars or piston engined planes) to cross-talk my way through understanding page 17 where the HG-3's turbo-pumps are described.  

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

There's actually a slightly better version of that diagram in this document, but it doesn't have any more clues as to what it would look like.

x4pcwy8.png
 

 

 

Interesting.   *100% Speculation here*  so it looks like the idea of a re-built RS-25 might be more accurate than my previous suggestion.   What the upper lobes are appear to be stacked small diameter centrifuge pumps.  The centrifuge is chosen for throttleablity and the stack series pumps for size and weight concerns (I don't have the mass vs mass-flow math to check but I am guessing that a single Centrifugal pump to power a HG-3's flow rate would be a massive 50-65 inches in diameter... much to big and heavy to carry on a Rocket motor of this size.

That all being said I would suggest an HG-3 look alike would be a RS-25 powerhead scaled down to J-2S powerhead size, and a much smaller bell underneath it to meet the 133x80 dimensions. 

 

==============================================================

Onto the Titan Payload update.

1) love the idea of a Conical parachute  for the UA-12x/SRMU/Soltans.

2) Love the idea for BigG these are the two most wanted (by me atleast) BigG SMs.  

3) I have never had the need to do this before now but is there an appropriately textured adapter to go between the Gemini Nose cone and the Agena-D parts?   I am thinking about making a Gemini lander carrier rocket that will carry a Fully Fueled Agena D or Fat Agena to 2000km orbit so that the Agena can then place the lander in Munnar or Minimus orbit and I don't have to carry the mass with my Gemini capsule.   I am thinking of this for a 2.5x or 3.2x play-through.

4) So I was too tired to ask yesterday but the Apollo nose fix, is that a re-configurable part to allow for both docking ports ?

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Interesting.   *100% Speculation here*  so it looks like the idea of a re-built RS-25 might be more accurate than my previous suggestion.   What the upper lobes are appear to be stacked small diameter centrifuge pumps.  The centrifuge is chosen for throttleablity and the stack series pumps for size and weight concerns (I don't have the mass vs mass-flow math to check but I am guessing that a single Centrifugal pump to power a HG-3's flow rate would be a massive 50-65 inches in diameter... much to big and heavy to carry on a Rocket motor of this size.

Clearly it's a pair of belt driven turbopumps powered by a Volkswagen Beetle engine. :D

aW4tmo4.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm loving the new Titan parts, they look absolutely stunning. Really looking forward to Big G too. On the subject of Titan LDC/Barbarian, I'd like to suggest a 4x/5x S1 engine mount but without the engine mount protruding from the sides, so you can build a Titan Barbarian with 5 boosters without them clipping into the mount. This is just a request so feel free to ignore it if you don't feel like making it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Hay said:

I'm loving the new Titan parts, they look absolutely stunning. Really looking forward to Big G too. On the subject of Titan LDC/Barbarian, I'd like to suggest a 4x/5x S1 engine mount but without the engine mount protruding from the sides, so you can build a Titan Barbarian with 5 boosters without them clipping into the mount. This is just a request so feel free to ignore it if you don't feel like making it.

Pretty much already there

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

[snip]

What is the "Fat Agena" you mentioned?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hieywiey said:

What is the "Fat Agena" you mentioned?

Ever wondered why there was no Agena C? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, CobaltWolf said:

Ever wondered why there was no Agena C? :)

O H. I thought the reusable Shuttle-Agena concept was Agena-C... Was it comparable in diameter to Centaur, or to Thor?

Also, which ullage motors on Saturn detached, the ones on the S-II interstage, or on the S-IVB?

Edited by hieywiey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, hieywiey said:

O H. I thought the reusable Shuttle-Agena concept was Agena-C... Was it comparable in diameter to Centaur, or to Thor?

Also, which ullage motors on Saturn detached, the ones on the S-II interstage, or on the S-IVB?

I believe it was closer to Thor but I haven't run across much about it and it was all a while ago.

The ones on the S-IVB detached.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, hieywiey said:

What is the "Fat Agena" you mentioned?

 

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Ever wondered why there was no Agena C? :)

 

2 hours ago, hieywiey said:

O H. I thought the reusable Shuttle-Agena concept was Agena-C... Was it comparable in diameter to Centaur, or to Thor?

While I wasn't actually referring to Agena C, what I was referring to, with an appropriate GCU (that is not on it by default) COULD be an Agena-C concept.   I was referring to the propulsive section of the KH-9 Gambit as Big Agena.     From the photos at The USAFM it has a Bell LR81 type engine with a different engine bell then that of the latter Agena D/ Ascent Agenas.  The actual tank setup is similar to the various Agena proposals with drop tanks (just the tanks are not dropped and they are in a protective skin/structure)     When I said Fat Agena I wasn't actually talking about any program or version in specific.  But rather the type of stage, a Storable Fuel upper stage of high fuel fraction and high efficiency.  

 

Also fun fact, Agena 2000 (1.875m KSP scale Agena) that was proposed and then quickly shelved for Atlas V lite.   It is my speculation that Agena 2000, was just a KH-9 / possibly a KH-11 Propulsive module with an appropriate GCU added.   Obviously we do not know what the KH-11's propulsive module actually looks like /is equipped with) so this is speculation ON-TOP of speculation :)...

 

 

Edited by Pappystein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agena 2000 was something slightly different. It was a Centaur-sized Agena, but it seems to have been a new project.

7rxSBm7.png

Most notably, it was supposed to use some sort of a franken-engine, basically an XLR-132 with an AJ-10-118K nozzle, RL-10 gimbal and some bits from Aestus, of all things:
Anz6FE6.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Friznit said:

Pretty much already there

I think you didn't get what I meant. Yes, there's a 4x/5x engine mount already, but it has these "lobes" that protrude from it:

PYKahI4.png

Hopefully this picture explains what I meant. I'd like to suggest one that's entirely inline, meaning it doesn't extend beyond the 3.125m tank above it, so you can use more than 4 boosters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sammakko78 said:

Why does the Gemini .craft file not have a parachute on it?

you had add parachute on top and make proper staging

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, quick announcement - I'm streaming tomorrow morning, starting some time between 7:00 AM - 8:30 AM Eastern. Going to be working on getting the new Saturn engines cleaned up and in game, starting with the J-2. No promises with how far we'll get or if stuff will get uploaded to Github.

 

13 hours ago, Pappystein said:

While I wasn't actually referring to Agena C, what I was referring to, with an appropriate GCU (that is not on it by default) COULD be an Agena-C concept.   I was referring to the propulsive section of the KH-9 Gambit as Big Agena.     From the photos at The USAFM it has a Bell LR81 type engine with a different engine bell then that of the latter Agena D/ Ascent Agenas.  The actual tank setup is similar to the various Agena proposals with drop tanks (just the tanks are not dropped and they are in a protective skin/structure)     When I said Fat Agena I wasn't actually talking about any program or version in specific.  But rather the type of stage, a Storable Fuel upper stage of high fuel fraction and high efficiency. 

Also fun fact, Agena 2000 (1.875m KSP scale Agena) that was proposed and then quickly shelved for Atlas V lite.   It is my speculation that Agena 2000, was just a KH-9 / possibly a KH-11 Propulsive module with an appropriate GCU added.   Obviously we do not know what the KH-11's propulsive module actually looks like /is equipped with) so this is speculation ON-TOP of speculation :)...

Uh, Agena and the KH-9/KH-11 propulsion systems are nothing alike. :huh: These are some pictures from @TimothyC at the NMUSAF.

IMGP1855.JPG

IMGP1856.JPG

13 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Agena 2000 was something slightly different. It was a Centaur-sized Agena, but it seems to have been a new project.

Most notably, it was supposed to use some sort of a franken-engine, basically an XLR-132 with an AJ-10-118K nozzle, RL-10 gimbal and some bits from Aestus, of all things:
 

Yeah, I always thought it was wider than Centaur, and only recently realized it was using the small Atlas I fairing. If you look though, the implication from that picture is that the length of the stage is like 2/3 interstage, 1/3 fuel tank. Interesting.

Wow, I never realized how much of a franken engine that the Agena-2000 was...

 

6 hours ago, Hay said:

I think you didn't get what I meant. Yes, there's a 4x/5x engine mount already, but it has these "lobes" that protrude from it:

Hopefully this picture explains what I meant. I'd like to suggest one that's entirely inline, meaning it doesn't extend beyond the 3.125m tank above it, so you can use more than 4 boosters.

I think if I'm smart about how I model the single engine mount (for F-1, basically just going to be a cylinder like the Saturn Multibody engine mount) I will be able to just change the bottom of it :) I don't think I'll be able to fit the E-1 sized openings though, it might have to be smaller. They would still have to fit the single mount LR-87s... I might be able to keep the bigger mounting points for the 4x "low profile" mount but not the 5x.

 

3 hours ago, Sammakko78 said:

Why does the Gemini .craft file not have a parachute on it?

2 hours ago, Wirelex said:

you had add parachute on top and make proper staging

Does it... not have a parachute? :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Cdodders said:

With the Atlas V, would you consider making the CST-100?

No, I have a lot on my plate right now. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, CobaltWolf said:

No, I have a lot on my plate right now. :)

I know, I don't mean soon. It was more of a 'I might put it at the end of a currently very long to-do list' sort of thing

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Cdodders said:

I know, I don't mean soon. It was more of a 'I might put it at the end of a currently very long to-do list' sort of thing

Sure, in 5 years there might be a CST-100 in BDB. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.