Galileo

[1.3.1] Rescale! Comprehensive SD Configs [1.0.2.8] [03 Dec 2017]

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On 8/23/2018 at 12:49 PM, Nightside said:

Hey @Galileo, what is the issue with this mod in 1.4.:sealed:? Is it only Scatterer related?

I'm using it with GPP. Seems to work better with Sigma Dimensions v0.9.8 which isn't the latest SD. There are some scatterer issues, but this isn't new and they're similar to what I saw in 1.3.1 - mostly related to the KSC view when you're selecting what building to interact with. Once you're on the launch pad or flying a craft those particular issues go away.

The only new 1.4.x issue I haven't been able to run down is with Iota - one of Gael's two moons - the surface of the moon has a second mostly transparent surface texture the hovers slightly above the actual surface, but only visible above 25km, so it doesn't affect landings. I'm not seeing it on Ceti or other planets I've checked.

Edited by Tyko

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Hey @Galileo,

there is a small typo in the 3.2x config that causes Kopernicus to fail loading any planet system. In line 164 it needs to be 

Spoiler

@Kopernicus:AFTER[Kopernicus]:NEEDS[scatterer]
{
    @Body:HAS[@Template:HAS[#name[Sun]]]
    {
        %ScaledVersion
        {
            %Light
            {
                %sunLensFlareColor = 0,0,0,0
            }
        }
    }
}

instead of

Spoiler

@Kopernicus:AFTER[Kopernicus]:NEEDS[scatterer]
{
    %Body:HAS[@Template:HAS[#name[Sun]]]
    {
        %ScaledVersion
        {
            %Light
            {
                %sunLensFlareColor = 0,0,0,0
            }
        }
    }
}

EDIT: I created a Pull Request with the fix.

Edited by Amnesy

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I'm using 2.5x which gas the atmosphere scaled to 1.1x. The music starts playing at 77km which makes sense but the atmosphere doesn't end until 91km.

Which is the bug? The music or the atmo height? Is there a way to fix it?

Thanks!

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4 hours ago, mreadshaw said:

I'm using 2.5x which gas the atmosphere scaled to 1.1x. The music starts playing at 77km which makes sense but the atmosphere doesn't end until 91km.

Which is the bug? The music or the atmo height? Is there a way to fix it?

91 km is correct.  I doubt there's anything you can do about the music.

FYI, the height of an atmosphere using SigmaDimensions is,

new height = old height * Atmosphere * atmoTopLayer

The Atmosphere factor stretches the existing atmosphere, and atmoTopLayer extrapolates it beyond where the existing model ends.

 

Edited by OhioBob

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I'm still seeing an issue with a translucent layer of terrain floating above the normal solid surface layer of bodies. this translucent layer isn't visible at very low altitude. I appears suddening at 25km and then disappears higher up, not sure exactly what altitude. I'm running GPP with Rescale & Sigma Dimensions 0.9.8.

It's present in on most planets and moons, but seems to be most pronounced on smaller bodies. It's much more visible on Iota than it is on Ceti. it's also very noticeable in 2.5x, but hard to spot at all in 3.2x

The same issue isn't present using the Stock solar system, so it's some combo of GPP with SD and ReScale.

Has anyone else seen this?

 

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@Galileo, have you seen this behavior? I've been troubleshooting with @Sigma88 about it on GitHub and he doesn't think it's SD. I've also established that it's not scatterer or EVE

On 10/16/2018 at 7:25 PM, Tyko said:

I'm still seeing an issue with a translucent layer of terrain floating above the normal solid surface layer of bodies. this translucent layer isn't visible at very low altitude. I appears suddening at 25km and then disappears higher up, not sure exactly what altitude. I'm running GPP with Rescale & Sigma Dimensions 0.9.8.

It's present in on most planets and moons, but seems to be most pronounced on smaller bodies. It's much more visible on Iota than it is on Ceti. it's also very noticeable in 2.5x, but hard to spot at all in 3.2x

The same issue isn't present using the Stock solar system, so it's some combo of GPP with SD and ReScale.

Here's a link to the dialog I'm having with Sigma on GitHub. Lots of detail there. I'm happy to upload any logs that would help. This has been tried now on 1.4.x and 1.5 with completely new bare-minimum installs

https://github.com/Sigma88/Sigma-Dimensions/issues/77

Edited by Tyko

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5 hours ago, Tyko said:

@Galileo, have you seen this behavior? I've been troubleshooting with @Sigma88 about it on GitHub and he doesn't think it's SD. I've also established that it's not scatterer or EVE

Here's a link to the dialog I'm having with Sigma on GitHub. Lots of detail there. I'm happy to upload any logs that would help. This has been tried now on 1.4.x and 1.5 with completely new bare-minimum installs

https://github.com/Sigma88/Sigma-Dimensions/issues/77

I think what you describe is the result of how ksp switches from PQS space to ScaledSpace

the variables involved in this (in the kopernicus cfg) are:

ScaledVersion
{
	fadeStart = 
	fadeEnd = 
}
PQS
{
	fadeStart = 
	fadeEnd = 
}

 

I am not sure how SD handles rescaling them, but I remember that I had some troubles finding a formula that would work well, so it might just need some manual tweaking

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3 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

I think what you describe is the result of how ksp switches from PQS space to ScaledSpace

the variables involved in this (in the kopernicus cfg) are:


ScaledVersion
{
	fadeStart = 
	fadeEnd = 
}
PQS
{
	fadeStart = 
	fadeEnd = 
}

 

I am not sure how SD handles rescaling them, but I remember that I had some troubles finding a formula that would work well, so it might just need some manual tweaking

I looked up Iota, which is has a really noticeable "ghosting" affect. The ReScale2.5x doesn't make any changes to those variables. So it's pulling off the defaults from the GPP mod. In the defaults they meet at 30000. I'm definitely seeing the bug starting at 25K

<SNIP>
  
  ScaledVersion
		{
			type = Vacuum
			fadeStart = 25000
			fadeEnd = 30000
			sphericalModel = False
			deferMesh = False
			Material
			{
				texture = GPP/GPP_Textures/PluginData/Iota00.dds
				normals = GPP/GPP_Textures/PluginData/Iota01.dds
				opacity = 1
				specColor = 0.09,0.09,0.09,1
				shininess = 0.09
			}
		}
		PQS
		{
			minLevel = 2
			maxLevel = 8
			minDetailDistance = 6
			maxQuadLengthsPerFrame = 0.03
			fadeStart = 30000
			fadeEnd = 120000
			deactivateAltitude = 140000
			materialType = AtmosphericOptimized
			allowFootprints = True
  
  <SNIP>

 

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2 hours ago, Tyko said:

I looked up Iota, which is has a really noticeable "ghosting" affect. The ReScale2.5x doesn't make any changes to those variables. So it's pulling off the defaults from the GPP mod. In the defaults they meet at 30000. I'm definitely seeing the bug starting at 25K

According to the config, 25K is where the scaled version starts to fade in, and it is fully faded in by 30K.  30K is where the PQS starts to fade out, and it is completely faded out by 120K.

So if you're seeing it start at 25K, then it's likely the "ghost" image you're seeing around the rim is the scaled version fading in.  I assume that everything looks good above 120K?

Normally the scaled version and the PQS should match up, but it sounds like yours aren't for some reason.  The only time I've seen this happen is when something in the textures and/or config has changed, and the cache hasn't been deleted.  Deleting the cache causes Kopernicus to rebuild it, and that usually fixes the problem.  But you said that you deleted the cache and it didn't do anything.  Which cache did you delete, GameDate/Kopernicus/Cache, or GameData/GPP/Cache?  You want to delete the one in GPP.

 

Edited by OhioBob

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5 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

According to the config, 25K is where the scaled version starts to fade in, and it is fully faded in by 30K.  30K is where the PQS starts to fade out, and it is completely faded out by 120K.

So if you're seeing it start at 25K, then it's likely the "ghost" image you're seeing around the rim is the scaled version fading in.  I assume that everything looks good above 120K?

Normally the scaled version and the PQS should match up, but it sounds like yours aren't for some reason.  The only time I've seen this happen is when something in the textures and/or config has changed, and the cache hasn't been deleted.  Deleting the cache causes Kopernicus to rebuild it, and that usually fixes the problem.  But you said that you deleted the cache and it didn't do anything.  Which cache did you delete, GameDate/Kopernicus/Cache, or GameData/GPP/Cache?  You want to delete the one in GPP.

 

Yep, your assumptions are correct about 25K and 120K. 

I've done completely new installs of 1.4.5 and of 1.5.0 installing only core GPP mods and ReScale + SD and still saw this issue. I installed using CKAN which recommended SD 0.9.8, but I've also tried with 0.10.0 

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14 minutes ago, Tyko said:

I've done completely new installs of 1.4.5 and of 1.5.0 installing only core GPP mods and ReScale + SD and still saw this issue. I installed using CKAN which recommended SD 0.9.8, but I've also tried with 0.10.0 

GPP comes with cache files included, which are intended to speed up initial load time.  Did you delete them?

(edit)

Now that I've thought about it a little more, I can see why deleting the cache wouldn't no anything.  I presume Kopernicus does it's thing first, and then Sigma Dimensions.  So while deleting the cache will force Kopernicus to rebuild it, it should rebuild it back exactly the same as it was before because nothing has changed.

Edited by OhioBob

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Okay, I just did a completely fresh install. I created a new copy of 1.4.5. I ran it once. I downloaded and installed:

  • Kopernicus 1.4.5-4
  • ModularFlightIntegrator (packaged with Kopernicus)
  • ModuleManager 3.0.7 (packaged with Kopernicus)
  • GPP 1.6.3.1
  • GPP Textures 4.2.1

I ran it and tested a craft at Iota at 30Km...no freaky ghost terrain

Installed:

  • SD 0.10.0
  • RESCALE 2.5 1.0.2.8

I put a craft in orbit around Iota at 30Km and the ghost terrain is back. The pic below clearly shows the floating ghost terrain along the horizon.

All were downloaded from GitHub and installed manually, no CKAN. This is the simplest test I can do with all fresh components. Suggest trying this yourself. 

I really appreciate all the help I'm getting :)

6z9zP4h.png

Edited by Tyko

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4 minutes ago, Tyko said:

I ran it and tested a craft at Iota at 30Km...no freaky ghost terrain.

Installed:

  • SD 0.10.0
  • RESCALE 2.5 1.0.2.8

I put a craft in orbit around Iota at 30Km and the ghost terrain is back.

There's no surprise that it worked without SD and RESCALE.  Sounds to me like it's an issue with SD.  The only other thing I can suggest for you to try is to edit the 2.5xKSP.cfg and change the @landscape multipliers to 1.  That's the only thing I see in the cfgs that might do something.

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33 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

There's no surprise that it worked without SD and RESCALE.  Sounds to me like it's an issue with SD.  The only other thing I can suggest for you to try is to edit the 2.5xKSP.cfg and change the @landscape multipliers to 1.  That's the only thing I see in the cfgs that might do something.

Yep, I just was doing the normal scale test to be thorough.

There is no landscape multiplier for Iota which is my test body. Only Kerbin and Tellumo have landscape multipliers and there doesn't appear to be a global multiplier. Unless @landscape = 0.76 is what your referring to?

I thought playing at 2.5x was fairly common. Surprised others haven't brought this up.

Edited by Tyko

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1 hour ago, Tyko said:

There is no landscape multiplier for Iota which is my test body. Only Kerbin and Tellumo have landscape multipliers and there doesn't appear to be a global multiplier. Unless @landscape = 0.76 is what your referring to?

The first group of settings under the @SigmaDimensions node are global.  So @landscape = 0.76 applies to all bodies unless there is a planet specific multiplier that overrides it.

The height of geographical features are multiplied by the "Resize" and "landscape" parameters.  So maybe "landscape" is changing the PQS but not the ScaledVersion.  If so, that could explain why the apparent radius of the ScaledVersion is larger than the PQS.

 

Edited by OhioBob

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Try adjusting the landscape value to something like 0.01, delete the cached body files and then see if the issue gets worse. The effect should be more noticeable on vacuum bodies with large deformities in their terrain i.e. very high mountains/valleys etc.

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45 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

Try adjusting the landscape value to something like 0.01, delete the cached body files and then see if the issue gets worse. The effect should be more noticeable on vacuum bodies with large deformities in their terrain i.e. very high mountains/valleys etc.

That does change it. I had to move it up to about 1.75 (from 1.1) to get rid of most of it. There were still a couple of places where a ghosted mountain peak would rise up. The ghosted textures aren't lined up with the the solid textures. There'll be a ghosted mountain rising out of a solid plain. It's like there are two competing textures and they're not aligned

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11 hours ago, Tyko said:

I looked up Iota, which is has a really noticeable "ghosting" affect. The ReScale2.5x doesn't make any changes to those variables. So it's pulling off the defaults from the GPP mod. In the defaults they meet at 30000. I'm definitely seeing the bug starting at 25K

try changing those values 

I don't know if making them bigger or smaller will help, one of the two

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4 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

try changing those values 

I don't know if making them bigger or smaller will help, one of the two

I did some experimentation modifying the actual cfg. I can definitely change the altitude where the effect starts by moving ScaledVersion FadeEnd higher and adjusting PQS to match. If I change both of them to 50000 then the effect starts at 50000. It's still there though, I'm just moving the ghosting affect visibility altitudes.

 

Can I write it as a MM config? Here's my proposed syntax. if this works I can write them up for all the bodies.

@Kopernicus:AFTER[GPP]
{
	@Body[Iota]
	{
		@ScaledVersion[Vacuum]
		{
			@fadeStart = 30000
			@fadeEnd = 35000
		}
		@PQS
		{
			@fadeStart = 35000
			@fadeEnd = 120000
			// deactivateAltitude = 140000
		}
	}
}

 

 

Edited by Tyko

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4 hours ago, Tyko said:

@ScaledVersion[Vacuum]

The [Vacuum] part shouldn't be needed.  Just @ScaledVersion.

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16 hours ago, Tyko said:

I thought playing at 2.5x was fairly common. Surprised others haven't brought this up.

I actually did notice this in my 1.3.1 2.5x GPP/GEP install.  I tended to put my Iota stations in a higher orbit, so it was (in my mind) a temporary visual bug which was only visible during descent or ascent.  If you had a station or other craft orbiting lower and were looking at the ghost terrain all the time, I could see how it might be more annoying.

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5 hours ago, Tyko said:

I did some experimentation modifying the actual cfg. I can definitely change the altitude where the effect starts by moving ScaledVersion FadeEnd higher and adjusting PQS to match. If I change both of them to 50000 then the effect starts at 50000. It's still there though, I'm just moving the ghosting affect visibility altitudes.

I don't think changing altitudes will necessarily eliminate the problem, but maybe you can find settings that will make it less noticeable.

The way things work is there is a PQS generated surface, which is what we see when we're close to or landed on the surface.  PQS is what generates the terrain, i.e. hills, mountains, etc.  When at a distance, we don't need that terrain detail, so to ease the demand on your computer, we transition to a simple image of the planet.  This simple image is the ScaledVersion of the planet.  The fadestart/end settings determine at what distance we transition from one to the other.  The following

		ScaledVersion
		{
			fadeStart = 25000
			fadeEnd = 30000
		}

tells us when the ScaledVersion fades in.  In this example, the scaled version starts to fade in at 25000 meters, and is fully faded in at 30000 meters.  And the following

		PQS
		{
			fadeStart = 30000
			fadeEnd = 120000
		}

tells us when the PQS fades out.  Here the PQS surface starts to fade out at 30000 meters, and is fully faded out at 120000 meters.

Even though the ScaledVersion is fully faded in at 30000 m, it is normally not visible at this height because the PQS is still at 100%.  It is not until the PQS starts to fade out that we begin to see the ScaledVersion.  Between 30000 m and 120000 m we'll see a blend of the two images, with the PQS gradually giving way to the ScaledVersion as we move farther and farther away.  At 120000 m the PQS has completely faded away and we are left seeing only the ScaledVersion.

The problem that you're having is that the ScaledVerion apparently has a larger radius than the PQS.  It's not suppose to be that way.  Normally when the ScaledVersion fades in, it's hidden behind the PQS.  But because of the larger radius, you're seeing the rim of the ScaledVersion fade in as an apparent ghost image around the edge of the PQS.

Something you might try doing is to set the fadestart/end setting to very narrow ranges.  That way you'll very quickly transition from one to the other.  It might look really bad as you move through that transition, but it should be brief.  Everything below should look OK and everything above should look OK.  Just place the transition at a height that will be least hateful.

 

Edited by OhioBob

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2 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

The problem that you're having is that the ScaledVerion apparently has a larger radius than the PQS.  It's not suppose to be that way.  Normally when the ScaledVersion fades in, it's hidden behind the PQS.  But because of the larger radius, you're seeing the rim of the ScaledVersion fade in as an apparent ghost image around the edge of the PQS.

Thanks that explains a lot.

What still confuses me is why the two versions aren't aligned with each other. There will be a ghost mountain above a lunar plain. Seems like if they were just high-res and low-res versions they should line up with each other.

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