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should they and if so what should be the 2020 DLC


What should be the 2020 DLC  

90 members have voted

  1. 1. What should it be? (NOTE options were from other suggestions posts and random ideas no matter how stupid)

    • Interplanetary bases module overhaul
      29
    • IVA experiments (interacting with stuff inside a module)
      24
    • Orbital long term science (Space stations becoming good for something)
      41
    • Science overehaul
      23
    • other countries and space races
      17
  2. 2. should another dlc be made

    • Yes
      12
    • No
      5
    • I feel like they are going to anyway
      7

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  • Poll closed on 05/11/2020 at 06:00 AM

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10 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

I often wonder if life support was there from the beginning if this would even be an argument...

There were arguments about everything. Building costs, CommNet, reentry heating... In the end, I think most people are happiest being able to toggle settings to their liking. 

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12 hours ago, Dale Christopher said:

Those dumb millennials amirite?...

That’s an unfortunately common point of view. There have been excrementsty people in every generation... this is why “these damn kids today” has been a trope since time immemorial 

You’re just tilting at windmills my friend, the doctor that saves your life when you’re in your 90s will probably be a millennial.

I should probably let you know that most of my humor is of the sarcastic; self deprecating style.  I was over generalizing for old man comedic effect.  This doesn't always translate on this new fangled internets.  Probably why the internet creates unnecessary conflict in comment sections.

2 hours ago, EchoLima said:

There were arguments about everything. Building costs, CommNet, reentry heating... In the end, I think most people are happiest being able to toggle settings to their liking. 

You're correct.  Though, as something of a creative person myself, I do believe in the art of building your vision and never trying to please everyone.  Some of my favorite games are my favorites because they had a vision and stuck to their guns.  Yes, I can freely admit that Harvester's vision for KSP is not what I would have done.

Edited by klgraham1013
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5 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Well yeah but, that could be 2020, or 2021, etc...

For the record; my question about an announcement wasn't sarcastic.

I've been away on a trip, and have been out of the loop.

Sarcasm aside - given its age, KSP can't be selling that many fresh copies, and DLC is a great way to keep game development alive. With that in mind, and BG arriving in the first half of 2019, it's hard to imagine that Squad would wait until 2021 to publish the next one. I'd be exceptionally surprised if we are not going to see a new DLC arriving every year.

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KSP = main book/movie, DLC = official sequels/prequels, mods = fanfic.
Once you have created the main body, you can grow sequels/prequels on it, without explaining everything from scratch.

Spoiler

See The Song of Ice and Fire. Nobody knows if the last books will be ever written, but already a whole pack of the author's prequels. Watch and learn, lol.

So, whatever it is, it should be casual-friendly.
No long-term things, no complicated interfaces. Mostly short-term and preferably spectacular, available for an average minecrafter.
If a creature can into modded Minecraft, it should can into the DLC. And do this casually, not only being a fan.

So,

Spoiler

Science overehaul
In KSP Science = mana, a magic substance to collect.
In the best case they can make mana of various colors (Bioscience, Geoscience, Astroscience, Physscience, etc.) generated in different labs, and allow to sell it for TechTree progress or money.

Interplanetary bases module overhaul
Orbital long term science (Space stations becoming good for something)

No.
You can't possess many Kerbals at once, so in best case you can just take 20 of them onboard and distribute between the workplaces.
You can do this now, without any DLC. Anyway you can't get a populated starship like Enterpsise, so the long-term science will be just a time delay of awaiting for results, and you already have this.
May make sense if they add an Populated IVA subsystem.

Random generated planets and stars (interstellar travel)
Elite and Spore demonstrate that a myriad of randomly generated places without unique content are not much better than 10-20 with it.
So, unlikely.
May make sense if they add a Building subsystem.

G-force unresistant
A whole DLC for that?

Survivability
Life support?

Radiation and other realistic space issues
Life support.
Unlikely, as this complicates the game a lot, and most of casuals will switch this off.
Also it requires a whole subsystem in UI and Kerbal management, so if most players will switch it off, then such DLC is not the race leader.

Cities
other countries and space races

Streets without people. Ever closed doors. Windows, dark in the day, but shining in the night , with uncertain shadows. Ships and cars with lost crew.
DLC "Lovecraft's Horror Show".
May make sense if they add a Building subsystem.

Terraforming
Armageddon!
(Unterraforming?)
Unlikely. They probably could, but unlikely they will.
Landscape. It's probably possible, look at Magic Carpet games, its pseudo-3d destructable landscape. But a Kerbal-sized pit is not interesting, while bombing the whole planet with asteroid is another game.
Climate. KSP still doesn't have even random wind (it's shocking btw, as there is aerodynamics already). And the DLC should affect all planets with atmosphere. Unlikely this game engine will allow this on weak computers.
Life. A totally another game.
Also KSP is about single flights of heroes, the planet-sized transformations are out of scope.
May make sense if they add a Building subsystem.

Interplanetary life
Unlikely.
Because game engine, CPU, etc, you know.
Because most of celestial bodies won't have it, so will be not used.
Because Layka must stay alive, while every second player would be killing them for fun.
Because to make the life something bigger than animated terrain details, it requires a forester's UI, an interaction of the animals with resources (eat grass, leave compost), and so on.
A totally another game, more like Spore than like KSP.

Tourism
Contracts like "Deliver 20 tourists to Tylo. Don't return them until everyone buys 3 souvenirs."
May make sense if they add a Trading subsystem.

IVA experiments (interacting with stuff inside a module)
May make sense if they add an Extended IVA subsystem.

storymode
A plot? Unlikely, too few characters with limited possibilities.

***

Imho, there are several casual-friendly subsystems they could implement.

1. Newsfeed.
An Informatorium building (or just button), with corresponding UI.
On every event (at least, MakingHistory-scriptable ones) create a newsfeed note with random-generated text and description. Maybe with low-res portrait or screenshot.
"Our guys have landed on Tylo <schematic screenshot>. Bilbo Kerman gathers stones. (<schematic smiling Bilbo's photo>) Building a hut? Looking for his keyring? 42 kg of stones are already onboard.".

Add this to the common news list. Have several filter buttons kinda different news channels "Scientific News", "Daily Spaceport", "Morons In Our Life", "Finances & Market" etc.
Show corresponding messages (may belong to several channels at once) as an illustrated news channel.
Add random fake news ("Val and Bill: together again?" they are in one spaceship) and commercials - fake or real ("Buy Clamp-O-Tron Sr. now and receive two Barometers as a gift", "FL-T800 for sale: 14998 7299").
Add random comments, likes/dislikes in the newsfeed.

Maybe an online version, too (share your news on a web-server)

Not a playable thing, but definitely casual-friendly and may be enough spectacular.

Can be also a prologue to a further Relations subsystem.
Make your Kerbals friends (they usually "like") or foes (they usually "dislike"), make your crews psychologically compatible.

2. Extended IVA
IVA is like a pocket universe isolated from the outer world.
Add an ability to usual full-featured EVA inside the ship, using its equipment. A big station is more interesting inside than outside.
Probably, requires nothing except already existing EVA.
Makes much more sense with "Artificial Gravity" option.

A prologue to the Populated IVA subsystem.

3. Populated IVA
Like the VAB and SPH crew and cars. But in the Extended IVA subspace.
Make a big station (orbital or ground) preferably with gravity. Deliver 20 Kerbals onboard, assign them to the workplaces (as usually).
Get into the IVA and watch them working, from time to time randomly walking, drinking, speaking. Possess one on your choice, manage him like in usual EVA.
Make you own Enterprise or Lunar Base Alpha.

("Daily Mob" fake-news channel.)

4. Colors of Magic: The scientific alchemy. Receipts, schematics.
KSP science is just a magic mana, not a real science. You mine mana and call it "science".
As described above, mine the mana of various colors (bio, geo, astro,  seismo, fizzix, schmizzix).
Breaking Ground already adds a nice alchemic stand (kinda, scientific equipment) to mine the mana (of Air, Ground, and other, lol).

Add a building or a button "Academy of Science".
Deliver raw mana from your scientific stations and probes to that place
Deliver gems (Breaking Ground).
Combining proper amounts of scientific mana, gems, and equipment (say, as a pot), craft scientific artifacts and magically scientifically charge them or so.
So, bring the receipts, schematics to the game. And possibility of user-made schematics distribution.

Use the charged scientific artifacts to improve your ships, or sell them for gold, or keep them in Panopticon.

Better make your Scientists work there for a while after their expeditions.

("Scientific News" and "Young Alchemist" news channels).

5. Panopticon.
A building or a button which opens a subspace where you can store, rearrange, and watch your souvenirs, handmade artifacts, so anything what you can put into your bag cells.
(Better combine with Extended IVA for interaction and Populated IVA for walking tourists)
An interior of a museum building with pieces at their places.

Just as an eye candy, to remember your expedition and alchemy scientific experiments. Like mission history in Mission History, but a museum for things.

Also the Panopticon helps with inspiration. The more artifacts inside, the better is TechTree progress.

("Panopticon and Museum" news channel).

Also it could contain pieces of Arts.

6. Arts.
Absolutely similar to the Science, but Arts. Just kinds of artistic mana.

Like you put your various scientific labs in different places, but place art studios to inspire Kerbals to generate artistic mana.
The more unusual is the place - the more inspiring, the more mana.
"Art/Inspiration" = "Science", "Studio" = "Lab"
Artist studio generates Painting/Sculpture Art/Inspiration, Choreographic Studio → Dance Art/Inspiration (best place it in either low-G or high-G, as medium-G is dull and trivial), Music Studio → Music Art/Inspiration, Drinking Pub Literature Club → Literature Art/Inspiration, and so on.

An "Academy of Arts" is like "Academy of Science", but Of Arts.
Bring the raw Inspiration from other planets, and make artistic artifacts (masterpieces).
Put them in Panopticon, sell them for money, use to inspire your scientists and add progress points in your TechTree, or improve your ships comfort.

(Read Jules Verne, a circumnavigational submarine just needs a museum with 6 m wide fountain and statues.
Look at the Hindenburg with a grand piano. Can you imagine an airship without a grand piano? Me - not.)

Of course, the collected gems are good to make masterpieces. Collect them as many as you can.

("Smart in Art" news channel)

7. Trading.
Have a trading UI, sell/buy resources, sell scientific and artistic artifacts.
Have a Market building or button, and maybe make local tradeposts with limited set of goods.

Make LocalSouvenirs and sell them to Tourists in the tradeposts.
(A lifehack:  You can either slowly make them on that forgotten moon, or mass produce on your Kerbin First Souvenir Fabric and deliver to that moon to sell as local souvenirs.)

8. Building.
There are static objects, there is a lot of them.
As we can see in KerbalKonstructs, they are enough easy to put.
They don't require physics (except collisions), so 10 static objects are easier to process with the game engine that 10 similar vessels.
Add ability to put static objects and to build locations on the user's taste.
If they are destroyable (even without full-featured animation), it is also a target (or vice versa) for an asteroid redirection and armageddon case.
Add them limited set of abilities (store custom resources, generate, transfer from one to another like through the pipe).
Partially this will replace cities.

Of course, it should work on any celestial body, it creates sense for randomly generated bodies. Make your random moon comfortable.
 

9. Custom architecture.
Just sets of static objects for Building DLC like "Medieval Castle", "Village", "Mage's Tower"/"Lighthouse", "Attraction Park", "Chemical Plant", "Secret HQ", "Bootcamp", "Stadium", etc. to build custom places.
Instead of cities.

10. Muscles.
Muscle-powered devices. Oars, bikes, power generators, etc.
Also, make a fitness club and train your Kerbals. Better in high-G. Make a Hulk Kerman in a spaceboat or a galley powered with 20 Kerbals.

Edited by kerbiloid
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On 6/19/2019 at 2:53 PM, klgraham1013 said:

This whole, avoiding punishment or bad things happening attitude is sort of off-putting to my old man sensibilities.  I still believe things should be challenging.  There should be consequences.  It makes success that much sweeter.

I'm 48. Hardly a millennial.

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On 6/19/2019 at 6:49 AM, 5thHorseman said:

Why would I buy a DLC just so I could disable it?

It also means any unforseen circumstance that lengthens the mission is a death sentence.

I've been playing for 6 years, revert and quickload at a whim, and I still screw up every other mission or so. Scrapping each and every one of those instead of sending a rescue is removing gameplay.

I'm definitely in the pro life-support camp, not just on a toggle but with penalty/reward options. The thing to keep in mind is yes, it does change the game, but it doesn't make it much harder. Its just another design consideration like fuel and RCS budgeting. The important thing is that time is part of that consideration, which is a welcome addition to the game and could unlock a whole new scope of gameplay. It adds urgency and sometimes drives improvisation when something unforeseen happens. Underestimating life-support isn't something that happens often--generally the life-support time is calculated in the VAB and its wise to pad that out--but there are also in-flight options. You can often adjust your transfer to arrive earlier, and in LS systems that include ISRU you can often alter your itinerary to resupply. Some players like permadeath as a consequence, but I would prefer an 'on-strike' or hibernation option so kerbals were simply touristified until rescue. All in all it adds a lot of dimension and realism that I fully enjoy when setting up bases and mini-colonies with functioning habitation and greenhouses on other planets.

Which is another thing. If LS were to include a habitation mechanic rewarding players with boosts to experience or some other buff there would be a real gameplay reason to have things like habitation modules and centrifuges. Even players who toggled off the LS consequences would still have those parts and could take or leave the gains from keeping Kerbals happy. I'd also love to see some more NERVA and VASIMR options and reactors that non-LS players could use. 
 

Edited by Pthigrivi
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I'm pretty sure that at some point I made a thread for both IVA activity and submarines, so those are both a yes from me. I feel as though we already got  stuff for an interplanetary based module overhaul with breaking ground and it's long term science experiments. Survivability I just find too difficult, as it just adds one more thing to forget when you are building a rocket. I'd love to have space stationa become useful, I love building them and more to do would be great. There was a great mod for this that I had once, but the name escapes me. A science overhaul would kind of be pointless, since I think we have a good enough science system already and with breaking ground it got even better. I don't want interstellar travel, mostly because it would cause lag and it having it be randomly generated would make it annoying if you saw somebody else with a star system you wanted but since it's random you won't ever get it. Maybe there could be a sort of "seed" that you could enter at the beginning and tell other people. Comets are just boring. Need I say more? Perhaps if there were some new science experiements made specially for comets it would intrigue me more. As for other countries, battling against an AI doesn't interest me that much, and it might be kind of boring sometimes. It could also get very buggy fast. Overall, if there were to be a new DLC I'd like it to be pretty minor, and I don't want anything that changes the style of KSP at all. 

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Water exploration could be cool. Like boat parts, submarine parts, maybe even airship parts just to be cool. Of course the base game would need to get better water physics. Then the DLC can add in ships, subs, and more.

I think it’d be awesome to explore Laythe with an airship + boat.

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On 6/20/2019 at 12:08 AM, EchoLima said:

There were arguments about everything. Building costs, CommNet, reentry heating... In the end, I think most people are happiest being able to toggle settings to their liking. 

holy kraken... your resurrected a five year old post from me? 

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1 minute ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

heh I was expecting that response from someone

Well, what else do you expect :P

Unfortunately, the employees of SQUAD have developed a serious addiction to food and paying rent*.

*I stole this from someone else.

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Just now, The_Cat_In_Space said:

is it possible to learn this power? I haven't eaten in a day

Well, you starve if you don't eat for three weeks, and I doubt the slow trickle of sales still coming from the base game is adequate to pay SQUAD employees a decent amount. One DLC per year isn't much to ask, and I assume a lot of the money they get from annual DLC goes towards continuing to develop the base game.

Also, my bad persuasion skills are probably no help to me here, so I'm going to stop participating in this discussion.

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